Ok seriously, how do you hollow a bowl??

[Jim Kountz]

Well Im about to pull my hair out, and believe me I cant afford that! :D Everytime I try to hollow a bowl I get severe and I mean big time catches that scare the bejeezus out of me and usually results in a ruined blank and pieces of wood flying at my face shield. I cant seem to figure this basic procedure out for myself and I have exhausted all my efforts. I have tried a bowl gouge, a spindle gouge, detail gouge, a square scraper, round scraper, parting tool and a few others I have laying around. Which tool do most of you use to hollow a basic bowl and whats your procedure?? I watched several videos but it seems when they get to the actual technical part of hollowing its kind of a lick and a promise and leaves me not knowing much more than I did before. Segmented bowls I can do since there is already a hole in the middle and basically Im merely shaping the inside, hollowing a blank however seems to whip my a** every time! LOL Any help would sure be appreciated and the sanity you save may be my own!:D:D

[Dennis Peacock]

Man....I know exactly what you're saying Jim. :o

I always start with the flute of the gouge pointing AWAY from me and perfectly vertical (the flute that is).

I start my cut and once I establish a "shoulder", I ride the bevel of my gouge down the side of the bowl and as I near the bottom of the bowl, I pull the rear of the gouge handle towards my body until I reach the center of the bowl bottom.

I repeat this process until I get it where I want it. The last couple of cuts I make are very lite and with a freshly sharpened gouge.

I wish you lived closer to me....then we could do a one-on-one kinda thing and have fun in the process of turning some wood. :)

[Jim Kountz]

So the flute of the gouge would be oriented like this --> (
How do you get the first cut down to the bottom of the inside of the bowl??If you work your way down what kind of cuts are you taking? Do you start at the edge (closest to you ) and kind of scoop out towards the middle? Thats what Im doing. Is this wrong??

Oh and what kind of gouge are we talking about?

[Bubba Davis]

If there are any wood turning clubs near you they can help. Look on that AAW site and they have lists of clubs. As far as using a bowl gauge I start at the edge as thick as I want the side do be and start pushing the gauge to the center with the flute at 12 o'clock and then as I am pushing rotate the gauge to about 2:30 until I get to the center. I continue that way until I have the depth that I want. Take lite cuts and have sharp tools hope that helps a little.

[Dennis Peacock]

Well, let's see Jim.

I primarily use a 3/8" or a 1/2" bowl gouge.
The easiest way I've learned to start my "hollowing the center" is to turn the flute of the gouge "towards me" like this -> )
and have the center of the gouge tip just a tiny bit below dead center of the bowl blank.

I should add here....the Pivot Point is my left hand sitting at the tool rest in front of the spinning bowl blank.

The key here is to start with the handle "towards" you and you push it away from you in short light strokes as you gain depth into the bowl.

I then switch to the other direction (after about 1/2" deep into the center of the bowl) with the flute like this -> (

Start with handle away from me and start the cut until I get a should of wood large enough to support the bevel of the bowl gouge and then I use my left-hand thumb to press/guide the gouge down into the bowl while pulling the handle towards me....creating a larger and larger "arc" inside the bowl

If you were here or I was there, I could show you what I'm trying to say, and you'd have the hang of it within about 3 minutes time. ;)

I learned some of my technique from watching Bill Grumbine, David Ellsworth, Richard Raffan, and just spending time at the lathe and experimenting....with the later one being the most beneficial. :D

[Brian Weick]

Here's some information that I think you will find very valuable- I don't do bowls as I have always stated , but I do HF some Architectural items I create - hope this helps:)
PS: use your zoom tool under accessories if you can't read this.
Brian

[Ben Gastfriend]

Tip: I use a drill bit in the tailstock with a piece of tape the depth I want the bowl to be. Then I drill all the way down to the bottom of the bowl till I hit the piece of tape. Then, once my hollowing is flush with the bottom of the hole, I know that the thickness of the bottom is perfect.

I feel your pain with the whole bowl gouge thing. I try (try that is... not succeed 100%) taking lighter cuts. Good luck.

[David Fried]

I feel your pain with the whole bowl gouge thing.


We all do. We've all been there. I know I gave NASA a run for their money!

[Jim Kountz]

Hey thanks alot guys I really appreciate it, just think you may have saved a couple of tools from being thrown down through the woods behind the shop!! LOL
That reminds me I have to go get my router..........

[Julie Tanner]

http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=3864&mode=videos#tabs

check out this video. Someone passed it on to me thought its something good to share :D

[Steve Schlumpf]

Jim - lots of good advice but the video Julie listed has everything you ever wanted to know!

[Jim Becker]

Once of the best videos to help you through this is Bill Grumbine's first video...his methods are very similar to what David Ellsworth teaches (not surprising given Bill was a student at David's school at one point) and it really works. Hollowing bowls is something that you need to practice to get comfortable with...it's all about balance and smooth movements and repetition of the same.

[Dennis Peacock]

http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=3864&mode=videos#tabs

check out this video. Someone passed it on to me thought its something good to share :D

Yup....good video there Julie.

[Dave Rudy]

Mike Mahoney also has a good intro video -- bowlmakerinc.com.
Lots of videos (some good) on you tube and woodturning sites -- try Google.

Catches like you describe probably caused by too aggressive cuts directly into end grain. How is the grain oriented in your bowl blank?

Best suggestion is that you find a woodturning club in your area and find a local bowl turner. Go to his or her shop or have him come to yours and show you and critique what you're doing. No substitute for getting hands on critique.

HTH

[Julie Tanner]

Woot,

Santa got me Bill Grumbine's first video.

Cant wait to watch it.

is it Christmas YET ????

[Reed Gray]

Well, not quite the way I do things, but it still works. I do use scrapers for all of my roughing cuts, and the gouges for all my finish cuts, with the one exception being on the inside of the bowl, which I never seem to be able to do as well as the outside, where I use a negative rake scraper for the final touch up. Now, the biggest cause of catches with a gouge on the inside of the bowl, as well as the outside, is rotate the wings of the gouge into the cut. By this, I mean I cut with the flutes of the gouge almost straight up, but rotated slightly away from the wood (about 1 o clock). This gives a nice shear cut. If you rotate the flutes slightly into the cut (11 o clock), you get a big catch. If you have the flutes rotated into the cut (9 o clock) you will get a scraping cut. It is a leverage thing. If you have variable speed and can go really low (50 rpm or less, but not at 500), try this both on the inside and outside of a blank. So, I start the cut at the top of the bowl with the gouge at 1 o clock. As I near the transition area, I start to roll the gouge away more from the cut (2 to 3 o clock). This puts the bevel on the bottom of the bowl at a better angle than you can get with the flutes pointing straight up.

Now, starting that final cut can be difficult. You need to rub the bevel to be stable in the cut. I have seen some well known turners use a thin parting tool to make the entry cut, then progress with the gouge once they have a shoulder to ride the bevel on. You can do it with a gouge, but I can't describe it, I would have to show it

. There is also one other problem that you can run into when turning the inside of the bowl, especially if it is bigger and thinner. That top wall will flex (no problem when turning the outside because there is a lot of mass). This is where a light cut, and a steady rest can come in handy. I just use my hand on the outside of the bowl. Do round over the rim of the bowl because it is sharp if you use this method. This can dampen the vibration.

Also, if you are using a swept back grind, and hogging off the material you don't want to bury the nose of the gouge in the cut (with flutes straight up) as it gets VERY grabby. For hogging cuts, lay the gouge with the flutes at 90 degrees away from the cut. The wing will be making a nice scraping cut, and the nose will actually be making a shear cut.

robo hippy

[Dennis Peacock]

Woot,

Santa got me Bill Grumbine's first video.

Cant wait to watch it.

is it Christmas YET ????

Pssst.......Hey Julie........

I can send you mine if you want to watch it before Christmas without opening your present. http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g69/sawdustar/emoticons/youngsanta.gif http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g69/sawdustar/emoticons/teeth24.gif

[Jon Lanier]

Once of the best videos to help you through this is Bill Grumbine's first video...his methods are very similar to what David Ellsworth teaches (not surprising given Bill was a student at David's school at one point) and it really works. Hollowing bowls is something that you need to practice to get comfortable with...it's all about balance and smooth movements and repetition of the same.

Thanks Jim, that is a good idea. I learn best buy watching.

Jim, I've been like you, trying a little of everything. At this point I've found that a Sorby type grind on my 1/2" bowl gouge works best for me. starting upright and turning clock wise working toward the center. But I keeping thinking there has to be a better way. I do use a half round nose scraper to finish the projects.

[Dave Rudy]

Turning it seems is just like other types of woodworking in one respect (and soooo different in others): there are many ways to do almost everything. And if you ask three expert turners and teachers almost any question, you get at least four answers!

The interesting thing is that they all work. For a beginning woodturner, everything from tool selection to sharpening angles can be bewildering, especially with so many inconsistent answers.

I took a two-day class from Stuart Batty recently. He is an excellent teacher and an outstanding woodturner. We were taught and practiced under his watchful eye to turn a green wood bowl from start to finish, and turned several of them. (And to do all of the spindle turning cuts, and how to select tools and sharpen them).

I have watched a number of videos, from Mike Darlow to Mike Mahoney, on all aspects of spindle and faceplate turning. But there is no substitute for a hands-on experience with a master turner. They can not only demonstrate for you, but answer your questions and explain the decisions in more detail. Most importantly, they can get you to do every cut right, and you can feel what doing it right means. They can observe and correct your errors, warn you of dangers, establish good habits, etc.

It was the best time and money I have spent related to woodturning. Every local AAW chapter (and most woodworking stores) has experienced turners who are good teachers. They are not hard to find. Investing a little time and money with them will pay major dividends.

[Dan Forman]

Another good video is the one by Del Stubbs, put out by Fine Woodworking. He demonstrates how each tool cuts, and the differences between grinds of the different gouges. He slowa the speed of the lathe way down to show how each gouge engages the wood, which should be helpful in your situation. Different grinds require different tool entry positions, so what looks like proper form for one tool will cause problems with another.

He is a fascinating guy, an inveterate tinkerer, who has made a number of interesting modifications to his lathe and other tools.

Dan

[Dean Thomas]

As is so often the case, you've got LOTS of advice here, and you've been told that there are several ways to skin that bowl-cat. Yes, there are folks who turn bowls exclusively with scrapers and get wonderful results in good time. Others turn bowls exclusively with bowl gouges. Some use a combination. The point is how do YOU want to turn bowls and do it safely and with as few bejeebers as possible running around the shop.

Catches almost always occur because we're using the tool in a way that was not intended! If I lose my focus, if I try something outside the parameters of "intended usage", if I get ahead of myself (part of losing my focus, actually), I'm going to catch and startle myself at a minimum, or start over with a new piece of wood at the worst. A couple of suggestions, some of which have already showed up on this thread:

Keep your tools SHARP. I won't get silly and repeat this every other line as I have elsewhere on the forum, just know that when all else fails, sharpen your tools!
Learn on small to medium size bowls. Try your skills out on both green and dry wood, paying exceptional attention to the angles of your gouge's flute and bevel, as well as the angle of rotation of the tool as it cuts.
The first way I was taught was that you can and should use your tailstock for as long as you possibly can. This is especially good for wide open bowls, and for those who use scrapers exclusively. Once you get a grip on how to use the tools better, you don't have to rely so much on the tailstock, but there is another benefit. The pillar serves as a gauge for how much you've taken away and how far you have to go.
As you start your cuts and leave a pillar in the middle of the bowl for the tailstock to use, you cut away only say 1/2 to 1" deep layers, finishing the cuts on the wall of the bowl, as well as the lip. You can do an open bowl that looks like a traditional soup bowl, that looks like a parenthesis on its back ) and use a bowl gouge all the way without issue. When you start to steepen the walls to more of a U shape or an inverted omega Ω, the use of the bowl gouge gets tricky at the bottom of the vessel where you transition from sides to bottom. It's really hard to maintain your bevel contact there. Scrapers do a great job there for the combo people (like me!).
As you get further down in the bowl and your pillar becomes taller and taller--and more and more in the way!--you can back off the tailstock and remove some or all of the pillar.
Notice that I have not mentioned cutting up or down hill. You have to do what works! If you're turning an endgrain bowl, the rules are different than if you're turning a facegrain or sidegrain bowl.
There are two schools of thought about the order of things. Both work, you just have to decide what's going to work for you and how much grief you're willing to take from those who'll be watching you turn.
Some form the outside of the bowl first, then conform the inside to it. Makes perfect sense.
Some form the INside of the bowl first, then conform the outside to that. Their rationale is that they want as much strength and as little movement as possible in the walls so they leave the mass of wood outside the bowl to help stabilize their turning. Also makes perfect sense to me.
Figure out what works for you and go for it!
Bowl gouge technique is taught by lots of folks. Most techniques will work because they are within the range of intended usage. Some will be better than others for you and for your particular set of tools. The basic technique that I've been taught most recently is as follows:
Presuming that you're working with stock that's been squared up across what will become the rim of the bowl. Technique is about the same for NE (natural edge) bowls, but the cut is even more delicate and gentle.
No tail stock once you're squared up as it's in the way.
Flute at 3:00 (12:00 meaning that you're looking down into the flute), bevel parallel to the ways. That means that the handle of the tool is on the far side of the ways, and will be drawn back to you as you start onto the bottom of the vessel.
As you gently put the nose of the gouge to the wood, you won't cut much, but a little bit of pressure and you'll create enough of a line in the wood to serve as a place to rub the bevel. Once you've established contact, rotate the tool back toward 2:00 or even 1:30 once you're comfortable with it. 1:30 is the magical 45º that we shoot for so often. It's a good place to start and it's easier to visualize than 60 or 75º (2:00 and 2:30, actually).
You've now moved the cutting edge to the intended use range of the tool. Move into the wood slightly and start the handle back toward you so that you're scooping wood out of the bowl just like it was butter out of a tub. If you can get the bevel to rub all the way around to the center, you'll have a clean, smooth cut.
If your angle is too great, you'll catch and the wood will try its best to rotate the tool right out of your hand. Try it again with the flute closed more, like 2:00 or 2:30, and take a lighter cut. Once you get the hang of it and can coordinate it, you can cut 3/8" ribbons out of green maple or cherry and have a super finish on the cut that will need little sanding.
And all of this would take seconds to show you instead of minutes to write and read! :DThis is not my invention, praise God! Someone else invented this wheel a long time ago. I'm just trying to describe it!! :eek:

Hope that makes some amount of sense and that it helps you discover your "inner bowl turner". :)

[BILL DONAHUE]

Try the Bill Grumbine video. He spent a weekend in Pensacola and between that and his video I got off to a fast start with minimal angst.

[Jim Becker]

Thanks Jim, that is a good idea. I learn best buy watching.

Turning, Jon, is one of those pursuits that most people benefit greatly by seeing it done. Whether it's live instruction or a video...doesn't matter outside of the lack of feedback on the latter...the visualization you get as you watch the wood spin and see it physically refined makes a lasting impression. That and repetition (getting the old 'turning muscle' in tune) are the key to learning.

I will say that the three days I spent with David Ellsworth were a really big kick to my turning ability and a lot of that was more about posture, relaxation and "feel".