Cordless: Nicad vs Ni-MH batteries

[Brian Elfert]

I bought my father a Makita drill with Ni-MH batteries maybe three or four years ago. He used it around the house sporadically and now the batteries no longer hold a charge for long at all.

I bought the Ni-MH batteries specifically because they are supposed to be longer lasting than Nicad. I have a Ridgid drill with Nicad batteries bought around the same time still going strong, but I also have used the heck out of my drill.

For someone who uses a cordless drill sporadically, are Nicad or Ni-MH batteries better? (Sorry, but can't afford Li-ion.) I can buy new Ni-MH batteries for $75 or get a whole new Ridgid drill with Nicad batts (and lifetime batteries) for $99.

I hate to throw away a good drill, but if the battery technology is the wrong choice it will cost less in the long run to get a drill with different batteries?

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, your Ni-Cad batteries have performed well because they have been cycled (deeply discharged, then charged).

Ni MH batteries do not have the memory effect that Ni-cads have (need cycling) however like all batteries, they have a lifespan.

I don't own a cordless drill at home because of the battery problems with infrequent use. Your father would probably be better off with a good corded drill, as it will always be in working order when he occasionally uses it.

I'm partial to Milwaukee products, their 1/2 inch Magnum drills work well, even with hole saws in steel.

Regards, Rod.

[Jim Becker]

Brian, why not rebuild the batteries? Contact Jason Abel here at SMC...he sells kits for rebuilding that are very economical and easy to do.

[Prashun Patel]

I think a good cordless drill (or 2) is the single most important tool a homeowner can have.

Yr dad has good timing. Most manufacturers are switching to LiIon now, so there are a lot of good deals on NiCad and NiMh drill kits.

Some of my faves:

Dewalt 18v w/2 batteries: L---s: $99.
Rigid 14.4v at BORG: $119.

Online, yr dad can pick up a Makita MForce 14.4v for $140 w/ 2 batts. This'll let him have 2 drills and 2 new batts.

IMHO, yr better off switching to DeWalt or Rigid or one of the other co's bkz their LiIon batts are backward compatible with their tools, so when the new batts conk, you won't have to replace the tool to use LiIon.

If you really want to splurge, my personal favorite is the Makita 18v LiIon impact driver/drill combo. $219. He'll be set.

[Brian Elfert]

Brian, why not rebuild the batteries? Contact Jason Abel here at SMC...he sells kits for rebuilding that are very economical and easy to do.

My friend used to work at an Interstate Batteries retail store. He said rebuilding cordless batteries is only cost effective if the batteries cannot be obtained new. I found new batteries on Ebay for about $70 shipped for two of them. The one rebuilder I found so far is charging $50 for a rebuild.

I'll contact Jason.

[Brian Elfert]

I'm planning on this for a Christmas gift as he was complaining about the drill batteries last week. I would only buy a new drill if Nicad batteries would last longer than Ni-MH. (Can't afford Li-Ion)

I have the full Makita Li-Ion set, but I have several hundred hours use out of mine converting a bus to an RV. I can't afford to spend that much even on just the drill for my father. There are lots of Li-Ion choices now than when I bought my stuff I think almost two years ago, but still not cheap unless I do B&D or Ryobi and I am not going there.

[Brian Hale]

I suggest you get your father the same drill you have and just swap batteries from time to time so they'll all get equal use.

Brian :)

[David G Baker]

I have been using a Ryobi 18 volt set up for around 5 years and it is still going strong. I bought the kit with a bunch of Ryobi tools in it that take the same size battery. I had one battery stop charging so I purchased the two battery set up from HD for $39.00. I use the Ryobi tools frequently on many serious home remodel projects. I am pretty rough on tools and would love to have some of the better brand name tools but I don't feel that they would last me much longer than what I have been using. The better tools are more comfortable if they are used a lot.
A lot of folks forget plug in power tools but they are probably where you will get the most use for the money.

[Randal Stevenson]

I have been using a Ryobi 18 volt set up for around 5 years and it is still going strong. I bought the kit with a bunch of Ryobi tools in it that take the same size battery. I had one battery stop charging so I purchased the two battery set up from HD for $39.00. I use the Ryobi tools frequently on many serious home remodel projects. I am pretty rough on tools and would love to have some of the better brand name tools but I don't feel that they would last me much longer than what I have been using. The better tools are more comfortable if they are used a lot.
A lot of folks forget plug in power tools but they are probably where you will get the most use for the money.

I would agree, that if he uses them so sporadically that they die without a lot of use. The Ryobi would be a better buy then the Ridgid. If you read the Ridgid, it is a lifetime service agreement, not a warranty. So you have some hoops to jump through to get the batteries replaced.
The newer Ryobi batteries (lithium ion) are supposed to be backwards compatable. So as they are coming out, the current Ryobi stuff should be coming down in price, and the batteries could be swapped in the future.
Now if he uses a cordless because of the clutch, there are two makers (Ryobi is one) of a corded clutch driver, model D45C (says online only, but a few HD's have them).

Of course the "dead batteries" could just be an excuse to get your help over there.

[David G Baker]

Randal,
I forgot about the Ridgid lifetime service agreement. The guy that hung my gutters told me about the service agreement. He has gone through a few batteries and he said all he had to do was take them to HD and they would swap the old batteries for new ones. I will have to research that one and may give Ridgid serious thought when I am in the market for a new or second cordless.
I am looking at the Dewalt cordless screw driver. I don't remember the voltage but the unit looked like it may be a pretty good setup. Amazon has it for $89 with a case, two batteries and a charger.

[James Mudler]

My local HD has the new 12V right angle drill for $129. It is very nice and light. Maybe a option for you.

[Dale Lesak]

The last info I got from HD was the batterys had to go to a repair center to get the free replacement. They have a sign up in the tool dept to that respect. If you have any better information let me know. 75 miles is to far to drive for a battery replacement.

[Rick Christopherson]

The batteries did not die because he didn't use them, they died because he left them in the charger most of the time. That's the number-one cause for short battery life. The reason that people assume it is from lack of use is because when a tool is under heavy use by a professional, the battery doesn't sit in the charger for more than a single day.

Get your batteries out of the charger!! Even if the charger is listed as one designed to "maintain" battery charge, it will still kill the battery if left for prolonged periods.

People also get sidetracked by marketing hype regarding batteries. I can't believe how many times I have heard people state that they want to get the newest tool because it has LiIon or NiMh batteries because they "have more power". No, they don't! They have a higher power "density", which means they weigh less for the same amount of power. The downside is that they also have a lower current density. They cannot discharge (aka provide power) at the same rate as their predecessors. When it comes to high-demand loads such as cordless drills, the NiCd still provides the greatest amperage.

On a positive note, NiMh and LiIon do have much better self-discharge rates, so when the battery is sitting on the shelf unused, it will last longer.

So consider this: Why do you think LiIon tools have such a high voltage (36+ Volts)? That's because the batteries cannot discharge at a high enough amperage for the voltage to be lower. This is their greatest limitation, and is why it has taken tool manufacturers so long to even contemplate bringing them to market. They didn't bring them to market because they were better for the application, the brought them to market because they knew people would buy them.

[Brian Elfert]

I'm pretty sure my father didn't leave the batteries in the charger. The drill with charger has spent lots of time in his vehicle in case he needed it when he was out somewhere.

My experience with Ni-MH batteries (not for tools) is they self discharge more than just about any other type of battery.

[Steve knight]

all cells discharge. so not using them can really drain them too far and cause them to die faster. thats why sometimes cordless is not better. if you want cells to last like Ni-Mh's charging them a couple times a month would give them far longer life then letting them sit till you need it then charging. if you let them sit a lot and don't want to do that then the Li-on cells are worth the cost.

[Brad Evans]

>>> The batteries did not die because he didn't use them, they died because he left them in the charger most of the time.

Where was that stated? It was mentioned they were 3-4 years old.

W/R/T Li-Ion, it's about time that technology is being embraced by the cordless tool industry. Greater energy density means lighter weight tools, or, greater run-time for the same battery volume. Much lower self-discharge means fewer trips to the charger if a tool has low duty cycle usage. Faster charge times and a chemistry that's more environment friendly are bonuses.

A great example is Bosch's Li-Ion Pocket Driver. Runs (seemingly) forever, small in size, tons of power, and charges quickly. One of my favorite tools for driving screws...

[Grant Vanbokklen]

I have a combo of NiCad and NiMh tools, Makitas. Have a 9yo DeWalt NiCad drill too.

I've not had good luck with the Makita NiMH batteries.

Is there a best procedure for charging them?

I don't have time to leave them in the charger, usually plugging in and unplugging because of being on different job sites.

But my NiCads handle this fine.

Don't have any Li-Ions yet. I bought a bunch of new cordless stuff right before the new tech hit the market here.

[Josiah Bartlett]

I wouldn't buy off-brand LiIon batteries just yet. They have a fire danger that NiMH and NiCad's don't have. LiIon batteries have a dangerous overcharge condition that is temperature sensitive, which leads to fire or explosion. The charge circuitry has to be designed really well. LiIons can even catch fire if not being charged if they were overcharged and then the ambient temperature goes up and they just run away. A lot of LiIon products are getting recalled because of fires.

The battery technology is improving though. The A123 cells that DeWalt is starting to use is really good and has a much lower fire danger and high current capability.

I've had the same 9.6V NiCad Makita for almost 10 years. I'm still on my original pair of batteries and I use it almost every weekend. I've dropped it off ladders and left it out in the rain and it just won't die. I always run the cells completely dead.

[Bill White]

Man, I wish I could find the 18v DeWalt $99.00 deal here.
Bill

[Ray Moser]

I purchased a set of 8 Energizer NiMH cells plus charger for a digital camera and was very disappointed at their self discharge rate. They were less than a year old when I complained to Energizer about their performance. They sent me a coupon for another 8 cells and prepaid mailer to return the first ones to them. The new set are just as bad and I have since learned that rather than being defective, it is the nature of the beast. I have never had a similar problem with NiCads. Now I keep a set of Lithium ion batteries in the camera for the occassional picture and charge up the NiMH's for use when I know there will be a lot of picture taking like a trip or special event.