Chainsaw sharpening problem

[Chris Barnett]

Have been sharpening my Stihl chain saw for a number of years, but have a problem now that I cannot solve. Recently, the saw slices to the left and getting worse [not a golfer, so don't know if left is really a slice :)] after starting a perpendicular cut through a log. I have not changed the sharpening method and use a file, with a final touch by a rotary stone the same size as the file. The slice is so drastic that a cut through a 14-inch log results in a 45 degree cut at the bottom :eek:. Thought someone might have experienced this problem and have a solution so I don't have to take to professional or dealer.

[Chuck Wintle]

Maybe the bar or chain is worn out causing the teeth to lean in a certain direction?

[Randy Cohen]

sounds like the right teeth and the left teeth are different sizes from wear and sharpening. when did you last get a new chain? I think the bar is probably fine.

[Steve Clardy]

Check your bar. The groove may be way wide at the top, not holding the chain properly.
Also check your tooth length from one side to another. You may have gradually filed more off one side more than the other.

Bars can be reground and the groove closed back up.
But finding someone in your area to do that may/may not be a problem.
Best is to just buy a new bar/chain combo.

[Charles Wiggins]

Have been sharpening my Stihl chain saw for a number of years, but have a problem now that I cannot solve. Recently, the saw slices to the left and getting worse [not a golfer, so don't know if left is really a slice :)] after starting a perpendicular cut through a log. I have not changed the sharpening method and use a file, with a final touch by a rotary stone the same size as the file. The slice is so drastic that a cut through a 14-inch log results in a 45 degree cut at the bottom :eek:. Thought someone might have experienced this problem and have a solution so I don't have to take to professional or dealer.

This has never happened to me, so I'm no voice of experience, but two things come to mind:
1) Are you somehow NOT getting the teeth on the right side of the chain sharp? If the teeth on the left side bite and the teeth to the right don't that would make it move to the left, I imagine.
2) Is your bar straight? I would think if it weren't your issue would be the chain skipping off, but if there's a twist in the bar it might cause a tracking problem.

[Steve Dewey]

Most likely it is the chain. You sharpened one side more than the other. They need to be the same length or it will "pull". A bent bar will bind vs. pull. I'm having trouble envisioning how a bar would wear to one side vs another, but you can resquare the bar using a file clamped to a right angle fixture (could be a block of wood).

Have the chain professionally sharpened (their machine fixtures the chain such that the teeth are the same length/height), or buy a new one.

A Stihl bar runs ~$50+ depending on model.

[Chris Brault]

different length of teeth would be my guess, doubt it is the bar. but i'm sure somebody will say i'm wrong, even though i ran one 5 days a week for 10 years!!!!! (logging)

[Larry Palanuk]

It is usually symmetrical and solves the problem once

[Carl Crout]

different length of teeth would be my guess, doubt it is the bar. but i'm sure somebody will say i'm wrong, even though i ran one 5 days a week for 10 years!!!!! (logging)

Yeah, you are wrong. I have been using a Stihl 019 since 1992. I cut wood for two woodstoves, also trim trees and clear fence rows. I have had chains with some teeth 1/8" longer than the others. I also have had a few missing teeth (from hitting barbwire). Neither makes a difference.

I also use Oregon solid steel bars without sprockets on the nose.....

[Gene Gauss]

This has happened to me on several occasions. One common cause that hasn't been mentioned is uneven wear of the bar rails such that one is higher than the other. Take the bar off and remove the chain and sight down the length of the bar. The difference is usually visible if you're having a problem with curved cuts. You can correct this by clamping the bar into a vise and with a mill-bastard file held at right angles to the bar, file the high side down to be level with the low. Bailey's (www.baileysonline.com) sells a tool (special file holder) that can be used to accurately level out the bar rails. While you're at it, check the depth of the groove to assure that it's deeper than the tangs on the drive links. If the rails are so worn down that the cutters ride above the rails and rock in the groove, which is worn wider than when new could also lead to angled cuts. Another possibility is that the width of the groove has increased because of wear and allows some angle to develop in the cut. I've never tried it, but I understand that there is a tool to pinch the bar groove down to correct it. It's unlikely that uneven sharpening of the teeth if you're experienced in sharpening. Of course, there is always the possibility that it's time for a new bar. It's said that one bar should last through two chains, assuming that lubrication was adequate. If it is time to treat yourself to a new bar/chain set, and check the sprocket for excessive wear while you're at it. Gene Gauss

[Al Willits]

Can't remember a saw cutting like that, but if it's the bar I'd do a bit of maintenance on it.
New chain might be easier to check though.

Bar maintenance for me is usually pretty basic, I'll take a flat file to the edge of the bar if it develops a burr, then I take a piece of steel that a few thou thicker than the blade and insert that into the groove and tap with a hammer closing any flare that may have developed, I've found turning the bar over helps also as one side wears quicker than the other.

Nothing you'd find in a manual, but it's worked for over 25 years and a few hundred cords of wood. :)

Al...who's still waiting for that darn McCulloch to die, so he can buy a good one...

[Roy Hatch]

Your choice, beat your head against the wall, or listen to what Gene Gauss (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/member.php?u=7334) had to say. I would expect any good book on chain saw maintenance would offer the same advice.

[Howie French]

whenever this has happened to me, it has alway been a chain issue.

here are some reasons from Oregon's website

1. Uneven top plates can cause a chain to cut crooked. It's important to keep all top plates equal length

2. Dull cutters damaged by rocks can cause a chain to cut crooked. It's important to remove all damage from cutters prior to cutting. Cutting with a dull chain can accelerate wear to the bar and chain.

3. Different depth gauge settings from left to right. Keep all depth gauge settings equal from left to right.

4. Different top-plate angles from left to right. If you sharpen your chain at a 25° setting on your left hand, your right hand cutters should match

5. A worn guide bar. A badly worn bar cannot be repaired. If your system is cutting crooked and you have narrowed it down to the bar, more than likely the rails, or the inside of the bar, are damaged beyond repair


I would replace the chain or have it professionally resharpened, if this does not correct things, then take a look at the bar.

good luck.



Howie

[Tom Maple]

I would recommend taking the bar and chain to a GOOD chainsaw shop and have them regrind your chain and set the depth gauges to the proper heigth. It should be only $10 - $20 depending on bar length. After several sharpenings the depth gauges will be too tall in relation to the cutters.
Hand sharpening makes it harder to keep the throat of each cutter exactly where it needs to be. Each subsequent sharpening increases the error. I like to take my chainsaws in after a few hand sharpenings and let the shop get everything back to spec using their jigs. That way everything is starting out uniform. After several hand tune-ups you can't help but get some of the cutters different than the others.
The type of chain affects how critical sharpening is. Is it a full chisel, semi-chisel or safety type chain? A full chisel chain cuts great when sharp but when it starts to dull it almost stops cutting. Proper sharpening is critical for these chains.
Good luck.

[Chris Barnett]

Chain is a full chisel and the rails look even and OK; there is some sideways tilting movement of the chain but its not unreasonable. Closer inspection with linear calipers indicated a difference between several left and right teeth; further checks showed all left teeth are longer than those on the right side. After reading repetitive discrepancies, I just used the eye balls for a good hard look(sometimes the best tool) and all the teeth on the left side are now noticeably longer and cleaner and sharper than those on the right side.:eek: Seems the left side with the sharper teeth is cutting better, thus the slice to the left. Something had to cause this. Have had the bar in a serious bind a few times but I cannot see any deflection; time to take apart again and use the TS as a flat and check it out again. Otherwise, will take to dealer and have them determine why this occured. Could sharpen and even the teeth but might simply happen again.
Many thanks to all the folks sharing their ideas. Had I looked more closely I could have saved you guys some time...sorry about that. Still must find out why the teeth are not identical...OR EVEN CLOSE:confused:. Need to get this fixed....there is a log still waiting :D.

[Fred Voorhees]

sounds like the right teeth and the left teeth are different sizes from wear and sharpening. when did you last get a new chain? I think the bar is probably fine.

I've had this problem with my chainsaws in the past. It isn't the saw itself. It's the blade. Get a new blade and I'll bet dollars to donuts that your problem dissapears.

[Rob Will]

Yeah, you are wrong. I have been using a Stihl 019 since 1992. I cut wood for two woodstoves, also trim trees and clear fence rows. I have had chains with some teeth 1/8" longer than the others. I also have had a few missing teeth (from hitting barbwire). Neither makes a difference.

I also use Oregon solid steel bars without sprockets on the nose.....

You have got to be kidding. I have seen a blade cut sideways by simply giving one side of the chain an extra stroke with a file. Guys that cut timber for a living can lay a cruddy-looking old 066 into a butt log and throw long shavings with unbelievable speed and volume. It is all in having the right touch with the file. Rubbing small tree limbs in half with an 019 must be a different science from cutting a 4' log with an 066 :confused:. I think Chris has this one right.

If your time is worth anything replace the bar and chain.

Rob

[Jason Roehl]

One more issue not mentioned is whether or not the chain is tensioned enough while running the saw. A loose chain can result is curved/wandering cuts...

I don't sharpen by hand, unless it's just a touch-up in the field, I keep my chain tensioned, and I don't have any problems.

[Randy Cohen]

I have a stihl 038 since about '89 and i have never changed the bar. it cuts true and fast using the most aggressive chain i can buy. i hand sharpen as needed....no more than 2 strokes per tooth. i use a file guide. i have cut a lot of locust for firewood. when it cuts poorly its always the chain.

[Steve Dewey]

...Otherwise, will take to dealer and have them determine why this occured. Could sharpen and even the teeth but might simply happen again.
Many thanks to all the folks sharing their ideas. Had I looked more closely I could have saved you guys some time...sorry about that. Still must find out why the teeth are not identical...OR EVEN CLOSE:confused:. Need to get this fixed....there is a log still waiting :D.

The reason the teeth are not identical is because over time you sharpened untill they were sharp, not untill they were the same size. You also mentioned a rotary stone - that will take of metal mighty quick.

There is no need for the shop to "diagnose" the problem. Either replace the chain or have them sharpen it for you. When sharpening by hand, only use a file & do the same number of strokes on each tooth. Since most of us have a dominant hand (right or left) we tend to pull differently nearside & farside when sharpening the chain - leading to uneven teeth. Every once in a while, bring the chain in to the shop to get it back in spec.

[Steve Hilbert]

The are three reasons the kerf is curving:

1. The bar could be bent, sight down the bar and if it curves at all, time for a new one.

2. Uneven depth gauges. Physical teeth size does not matter. As long as the teeth are the same angle and the depth gauges are the same the saw will cut. Uneven teeth angles cause a larger chip to be cut because is more cutting surface to take a bigger chip. The cheapest way to test depth gauge is to lay a flat file on the teeth and sight the depth gauges. About the thickness of a dime is all you need.

That being said it is better to file all things even.

3. The other problem is a burr developed on the bar, on the sides. Run your finger nail along the bar and if you feel it catch near the bar grove you have a burr and it will need to be filed flat. Top and sides. This tool is the best for that because it gives you a 90 degree angle for the bar. Called BAR EDGE SHARPENER by Pferd.
http://gear.sherrilltree.com/iwwidb.pvx?;multi_item_submit



As far as experience I was a tree climber, who used chainsaws on a daily basis.

Hope this helps,

Steve

[Chris Brault]

Rob Will thank you for the respect!!!! When Carl wrote that, that was my thinking also. Before I went in the woods, I worked at an old growth sawmill in Toutle, Wash. for 6 years.(base of Mt.St.Helens). We cut old growth Douglas Fir. And we occasionaly fought this problem. When you buck a 4-5' diameter tree that is 26" 10" long with an 084 (we had two 084's, one with 42"bar, one with 60" bar) you typically clean up one end of the log (2-3" off), then measure out and buck about at 13'3" give or take. 13' was the #1 length for the Japanese, who we were cutting the clear cants for at the time. Having the clean "faces" on these logs allows you to see the defects in them, allowing you to put the log into the mill to yield the best gain. Anyways, like Rob stated, if you are cutting crooked, (really crooked) on a 10,000$ peeler, and on a big log, you'll know it immediately. And if I had bucked one, and ended up with a 13' 6" on one, and a 12'6" on the other, not acceptable. I can get pictures on some of this stuff, if some think i'm kidding!! Losing one foot, because of a crooked buck job (and the Japanese did not like 12' lumber---at all) wouldn't have helped my quarterly bonus I recieved there and i would have got a chewing out for also.
Upon further thinking on this though, I could possibly be wrong. I do know how to "hand sharpen",,,,,,,, we all did at this mill. But, for speed and production, we had our chains professionaly ground at a local stihl dealer. It takes quite awhile to hand file a 60" chain if you've knicked it in the dirt or worse yet -rock. Carl's right on one account, yes, the teeth can be different lengths---- TO AN EXTENT!!! And yes the rakers can be a little different lengths---to an extent. But, most of the time when we had this problem------ it was the chain. I personally would start there. And if that doesn't do it, It could possible be a bad or bent bar. Those bars are awfully tough, but yes they can be bent. We had 2 084's, 1 -066 magnum, 1-044, and 2- 021's at this mill and used all of them daily.
And when i left there to go chase in the woods I ran either a 066 or a 044 daily, bucking more towards the 2-3' diameter obviously, not much old growth left out here, that is "unprotected" to log. But even when i was chasing under the tower, when i was bucking nice export red fir for weyerhaeuser, you were required to yield "nice, flush faces on export timber.

[Chris Barnett]

Cleaned and confirmed the bar was flat, but had a burr on the bottom left (and the top right since I had turned the bar previously). Had the chain sharpened at a Stihl dealer but what an experience! Using standard chain sharpening tool fixtures, the longer left side teeth were sharpened but could not be shortened to the same length as the right side. They did not have the tools to close up the channel on the bar's top and bottom, so guess I get to do that. Now, just how is it done....a two pound peen and an anvil :D ! Think I will use a 6-inch vice and work slowly. Worst case is .071 and nominal is .062 fore and rear; will be satisfied if the final is .062 - 065, and the bar still intact.
Bought a nice brand new very aggressive chain and think I will spring for a new bar too; when I do favors I will put the old chain and bar on the saw :p . Folks at Stihl dealer said the cant could be caused by just one bad tooth :eek:, or by a worn bar guide slot or a loose chain. Suppose my problem was also that the teeth on one side were .015 -020 longer than the other side...thats a lot! They are still longer but by a bit less. Will know after I attack the log again, after closing the slot and installing the sharpened chain. Don't think I want to use that nice new one on the old bar. Many thanks for all the information and comments.