Went for a router bit set and came home with a DP!

[Dennis Reardon]

As some of you know woodcraft sends out birthday cards to you with a discount offer to entice you to come in and spend your birthday loot with them. I think it is a good marketing technique, (it always works on me!). My b-day was back in September and until only a couple of weeks ago I had been in a wheelchair and then crutches from a nasty ankle injury. So I did not get to use my discount this year.

Anyway I am finally up an moving around again so I thought I would stop in and see if they had any of that sparkly Steel City stuff on the showroom floor. While I was cruising the store one of the hired hands came over to help me. I told him I was looking for the router bit set I had seen in the flyer. We found them quickly enough and with my bits in hand I started wandering around the store. It was then that I noticed a flyer for some deals on Jet and Powermatic tools. I should have just walked on by and paid for my bits but noooooooo I just had to look it over.

To make a long story short I bought their last DP in stock right off the showroom floor. It is a 17" JDP-17MF.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f98/ddmann/P1010102.jpg


I just about killed myself putting the damn thing back together all that CI is heavy man. After I did get up and the belts adjusted I was flat amazed at how quiet it ran. I have not tried all 16 speeds yet, (will I ever use them all?). Now that it is set up I have a few q's for all you xperts out there. I have heard folks talk about runout and I am wondering how to measure it. I tried to measure it like this:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f98/ddmann/P1010101.jpg

did not work to well or I have about a six thousands wobble. Please tell me how to measure it correctly eh.

I am planning on putting this on wheels later this week. I remember a post some time ago where a fellow made a pretty nice one out of plywood, Quickcrete and I think a shopfox base, but I am a little fuzzy on the details. I would love t see any and all of the ways the creative folks here have solved this problem.

Well that's all for now I am sure I will be full of q's for the next couple of days.

[Mike Marcade]

That will give you the runout on your forstner bit. Just make sure it is chucked up evenly.

To accurately measure the runout you really need to use a drill rod or gauge pin chucked up and set your dial indicators stylus as close to the chuck as possible.

[Don Bullock]

Dennis, first of all I'm glad that you're doing better and are able to get back to woodworking.

Congratulations on your new drill press. Enjoy.:D

[Gregory Lyons]

OK, so I've checked my DP the same way; no drill rod, just measuring to the chuck. I've got the Ryobi DP, and I assume that the chuck is attached in a similar fashion. I would find the 'high spot' on the chuck, then remove the dial indicator and make one or two sharp raps on the chuck with a hammer. I got it within .001' after several iterations. I still get a small amount of wobble, specifically on longer bits.

1st: where can I get a 'drill rod? 2: How do you check it (the rod) for 'trueness', and (C) am I using the correct method for truing the chuck?


~g

[Gary Keedwell]

I have that drill press and am not crazy about the chuck. I have a feeling that you could chuck it up 10 times and get 10 different readings on your indicator. Nature of the beast. They wouldn't make much money on a drill press if they put a decent chuck on it. It would probably cost $50 for them to put a good one on. Unless I get back to a little metal working , Ill leave it on. But if I can find a real good chuck somewhere at a good price, that Jet chuck is in the trash.:mad::)

[Dennis Reardon]

Since my first post I have tried a few different bits, (seeing as I only just learned about "drill rod") and either all bits are out of round, or my chuck needs to re-installed, adjusted or flat out replaced.

Everything else seems great. No ugly vibrations, noises or surprises. Tomorow I will work on it a bit more.

[Mike Marcade]

Is the chuck on youall's drill presses hammered in to a long tapered hole in the output shaft?

Greg,

You can get drill rod in different sizes at any supply house that sells machine tools and industrial stuff (ex. Mcmaster-Carr, MSC, Dixie Tool Crib, etc.)

[Gary Keedwell]

Is the chuck on youall's drill presses hammered in to a long tapered hole in the output shaft?

Greg,

You can get drill rod in different sizes at any supply house that sells machine tools and industrial stuff (ex. Mcmaster-Carr, MSC, Dixie Tool Crib, etc.)
Mike...To get the expected results from an indicator and a ground reamer blank, you have to have a machine shop grade chuck. Your not going to get repeatability with the bottom shelf chucks they provide. Manufacturers know that most woodworkers are not doing machine shop precision tolerances. There not going to put race-car tires on a Yugo. Not cost effective.:)
Gary
All Around 1st Class Machinist

[Jim Becker]

Try re-seating the chuck/taper before you despair.

That's a nice press...I've had mine for many years now and it does what I ask it. Do consider making an auxiliary table and fence for it. That will make it much easier to use for woodworking purposes. Mine is 24" wide and 18" deep (slight cut-out for the column), has tee-slots and sports a low fence riding those slots with tee-bolts. Quick ,easy and cheap to make.

[Mike Marcade]

Mike...To get the expected results from an indicator and a ground reamer blank, you have to have a machine shop grade chuck. Your not going to get repeatability with the bottom shelf chucks they provide. Manufacturers know that most woodworkers are not doing machine shop precision tolerances. There not going to put race-car tires on a Yugo. Not cost effective.:)
Gary
All Around 1st Class Machinist

I understand that Gary. but in my opinion the drill rod just removes one more variable from bent or non-straight drill bits when checking for runout. :cool:

[Paul Johnstone]

I'd just relax.. Even if the wobble is 6/1000, that's not going to matter in woodworking. If you drill a 1/2" hole, a 1/2" plug is still going to fit.
Your screws will still fit, etc.

[Mike Marcade]

I'd just relax.. Even if the wobble is 6/1000, that's not going to matter in woodworking. If you drill a 1/2" hole, a 1/2" plug is still going to fit.
Your screws will still fit, etc.

My engineering background makes me all crazy for tolerances! :D

[Gary Keedwell]

I'd just relax.. Even if the wobble is 6/1000, that's not going to matter in woodworking. If you drill a 1/2" hole, a 1/2" plug is still going to fit.
Your screws will still fit, etc.
My point, exactly.:rolleyes:

Gary
!st Class Machinst

[Chris Barnett]

Tell you what I'll do, since its cyber Monday and all that....have a brand new 1/2 inch shank router bit set NIB .... will trade you even for your DP :D. Hope you can lick the runout problem; might just need a bit of tightening in the right places, like the tender gender.

[Steve Leverich]

I have an Orbit floor model DP - didn't get rid of the majority of runout til I removed everything but the quill and indicated off the inside of the quill taper. Ended up replacing the taper adapter and chuck with a 3/4" Jacobs ball bearing "super chuck" - that dropped runout to around .001".

Prior to that I'd tried to use it for some PC board drilling by getting a replacement 1/4" drill chuck and a fine thread bolt and chucking that whole thing in the larger chuck so it could grip a #60 drill bit - runout was so bad at that point that I could have centered a 1/16" bit in a hole in a piece of material, and the bit I was trying to drill with would have ORBITED around the other bit without even touching it :eek:

One thing that's not been mentioned that might help (or not) - try driving out the taper adapter and chuck and cleaning off the rust prevention goop - inspect each for manufacturing burrs and fixing any you find, then reassemble and re-check.

If you're only gonna use the DP for woodworking, I'd have to agree with Gary and Paul though - .006" won't kill the deal for anything I could think of that's a DP operation... Steve

[Dennis Reardon]

Thanks for all the tips and help folks I do appreciate it. A few minutes ago I re-installed the chuck and arbor. Since I bought this off the showroom floor I had not performed the initial installation. The results are indeed interesting. Using the same forstener bit I orignally used the runout is now only about 3 thousands or so. This leads me to believe it is the chuck and not the machine itself. I have homework to grade tonight so I will try it again tomorrow and I may attempt to measure the runout without the chuck installed.

Does anyone know who makes a good keyless chuck I could replace this one with? Not in any hurry mind, you just wondering.

[john tomljenovic]

Does anyone know who makes a good keyless chuck I could replace this one with? Not in any hurry mind, you just wondering.


I just got a Taiwanese made SPi keyless chuck for my Delta x5 drill press and I can't tell the difference from the Albrechts I used. Albrechts are the prolly the top chucks made, and priced so, like the cost of your drill press itself. the Spi can be found for around $80, or even on the ebay for cheaper.

the chucks are something that gets the cost cutting for these Asian drill presses even though they are the more important parts of the press. always figure on replacing the chuck when buying a DP. your drill bits will all of a sudden not be bent anymore.

[Gary Keedwell]

I just got a Taiwanese made SPi keyless chuck for my Delta x5 drill press and I can't tell the difference from the Albrechts I used. Albrechts are the prolly the top chucks made, and priced so, like the cost of your drill press itself. the Spi can be found for around $80, or even on the ebay for cheaper.

the chucks are something that gets the cost cutting for these Asian drill presses even though they are the more important parts of the press. always figure on replacing the chuck when buying a DP. your drill bits will all of a sudden not be bent anymore.
Yea, Albrechts are the cat's meow. I bought a Jacobs and have had good luck with it. But that was for a milling machine. I still have to find a replacement for my drill press. Just haven't needed it. It still gets my goat to see the run-out, though.:mad::)
Gary

[Kyle Kraft]

Gary,
Me too! I took the OEM chuck out and installed a Jacobs ball bearing Super Chuck and never had any regrets.

[Gary Keedwell]

Gary,
Me too! I took the OEM chuck out and installed a Jacobs ball bearing Super Chuck and never had any regrets.
Kyle...Good for you. Can I ask where you ordered it from. How much$$$
Gary

[Steve Leverich]

Gary, I got my 3/4" over 20 years ago - at that time, it was about $120 from a local welding supply who got it from Portland, Oregon - I found one site that actually lists prices -

http://www.marssupply.com/mars/servlet/CyberVendor/category/G8112859/catalog/group.jsp/

As you can see, they've only doubled in the last 20 years, unlike steel in general which has tripled in the last 3 :mad: ... Steve

BTW, as I mentioned earlier even the taper ADAPTER in my press was FUBAR - I would make sure you get a new one along with the chuck.

[Gary Keedwell]

Gary, I got my 3/4" over 20 years ago - at that time, it was about $120 from a local welding supply who got it from Portland, Oregon - I found one site that actually lists prices -

http://www.marssupply.com/mars/servlet/CyberVendor/category/G8112859/catalog/group.jsp/

As you can see, they've only doubled in the last 20 years, unlike steel in general which has tripled in the last 3 :mad: ... Steve

BTW, as I mentioned earlier even the taper ADAPTER in my press was FUBAR - I would make sure you get a new one along with the chuck.
I might look into a new adapter if I start working some metal again and need the precision. Is that a big job replacing ?
Gary

[Steve Leverich]

Keep in mind that this is 20+ year old memory here - IIRC, there is a slot in the quill (above the upper end of the taper adapter) into which you drive a wedge that's just over 1/8" thick - this pops the taper adapter out of the quill. Don't recall whether said wedge came with the chuck and adapter. If you get one from the above link I'd call and make sure you're getting the right taper for your DP/chuck, and ask about the wedge.

Installing the new one you just clean up the inside female taper on the quill and chuck, clean both male ends of the new adapter (they are usually NOT the same taper), insert the correct end into the new chuck and insert the whole thing into the quill.

Piece of scrap 2x4 and a hammer and a few fairly solid taps, and "bob's yer uncle". I've drilled 1" holes in 1" steel and hole sawed 2" holes in 5/8" steel with nothing slipping, so I'd say it's in there :D

Since mine's used mainly for "poor man's machining" on attachments for my old Case 580B backhoe, I'm looking at a radial DP for the wood shop - doubt I'll need the 3/4" chuck on that one though, so should save a few $$$.

Found this, might be helpful

http://www.owwm.com/files/PDF/FAQ/drill_press_tune-up.pdf

[Alan Trout]

I have the same press but about 12 years old. I still have the original chuck on the unit and the runout is a little less than .002. I had to clean the taper to get acceptable runout. I would remove the chuck and clean both tapers with light oil like WD40, CRC, 3-N-1, etc. and then wipe it dry. Re-insert the chuck and then re-check the runout. If you don't have a wedge what I have used on mine a very wide flat blade screwdriver tapped in as the wedge and it worked fine. Remember the taper should just release with a small tap. If it does not get the proper wedge. A wedge can typically be purchased at a machine tool supply house or online at a place like J&L Industrial Supply.

You can get a cheap chuck that will perform OK but it is kind of luck of the draw. One of my favorite chucks of all time is the Albrecht Keyless chucks. Those would always hold better than .oo1 on my precision drills. Those are what I used when I owned a machine shop. But at over $250 dollars they are approching the price of the drill press.

Try to make what you have work. But if you have to, a decent quality HD Jacobs chuck that goes from about .125 to .625 goes for about $100.

But in reality this is wood and it moves more than most of the tolerances we are discussing.

Good Luck

Alan

[Gary Keedwell]

I hear you guys...I'll probably just keep what I have for awhile. It can get a little disconcerting , especially when I have a machinist back ground. But sometimes I have to remind myself that I'm ONLY woodworking.:)
This may sound a little bizarre but I'm one of those rare guys that can make almost any part but I'm not the most mechanically minded:rolleyes: Go figure:eek:
Gary

[Steve Leverich]

Gary, I would probably in your case just take a piece of 1/4" mild steel and make a wedge - mine's about 3/8" at the narrow end, tapering to about 1" over maybe 3" distance, then another 3" at 1" wide.

If you check that last link, it talks about using an end wrench to pop the chuck off the taper - if you did that first and the joint separated so as to leave the taper in the quill, THEN you could use the wedge and have ALL surfaces exposed to clean. That might tighten your runout as Alan said.

If you extend the quill about 3", you should see a pair of opposed slots about 3/8" wide - turn the chuck by hand and those slots should line up with another pair in the inner, rotating shaft. You should see the upper end of the taper adapter protruding up partway into those slots - that's where the wedge goes.

Looking back, I don't think I even tried cleaning my original parts before buying the chuck (which cost nearly as much as the DP) but I probably ask too much of my DP to have been satisfied anyway ;) Steve

[Eddie Darby]

For woodworking, 6 thou will not hurt. If you breath on wood it will move 6 thou.
The sources for wobble can be the quill, the MT arbor, the chuck, the forstner bit you chucked-up.
Use all three holes in the chuck when you tighten up a bit.
More important to woodworking, is checking that the table, when tightened is 90* to the drill bit. This will assure you of having truly vertical holes.

[Rod Sheridan]

So Dennis, you went out to buy a set of router bits and came home with a drill press.

Does your wife question your reading comprehension skills when she sends you out with a list to pick up a couple of items???

Kidding aside I had to laugh, a couple of years ago I went out to buy a small item and came back with a horizontal metal cutting bandsaw.......What can I say, we must be brothers......Regards, Rod.

Regards, Rod.

[John Holder]

They have chucks for any taper in any price range. I have bought smaller chucks (3/8-1/4) for mine that were more precise.