Board buddies question

[Rob Blaustein]

I just reviewed some of the excellent old threads that discuss board buddies and their installation, and have a quick question for those of you who have them. What's the thickness of those phenolic bases that you can buy to mount them on? I bought the board buddies alone and am about to mount them using some BB ply (3/4") with T-track on top of my fence, and I was going to use that same 3/4 ply (it has a phenolic coating/veneer) to make some bases on which I was going to mount the board buddies. I was just wondering if that would raise them up high enough and how my home-made bases will compare to the ones they sell. My guess from looking at them is that I would be ok with that setup.
--Rob

[Joe Mioux]

i screwed the aluminum track right to my fence (General T fence, ala bies).

What kind of fence do you have?

joe

[Rob Blaustein]

Joe,
I have a Shopfox fence on a Grizz 1023 (a Bies clone I think). I was planning to mount the T-track in a dado in the ply and screw that plywood strip to the top of the fence as others have done. That will also let me attach other auxiliary fences when not using the board buddies.
--Rob

[Pat Germain]

I just bought and installed Board Buddies yesterday. My fence has a T-track built into the top. I mounted each wheel assembly on a piece of 3/4 ply, then attached the ply pieces to my fence with bolts and wingnuts. It works pretty well. However...

If I have a wheel toward to the front of the saw, it gets in the way when I try to feed the work into the saw. I don't mean to hijack the thread, but can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong here?

[Gary Keedwell]

Yea Pat, I know where your coming from. I got all caught up in a couple of threads last winter and installed them on my saw. I basically bought them to help me to rip sheet stock. I figured that the mechanics of the BB would help me keep the stock against the fence when pushing through.
It really does help me on my occasional foray sizing sheets.
Thank goodness I installed the BB on tracks...as it makes it easy to move them out of the way. I find that I only use the one buddie on the far side of the blade on alot of applications. Sometimes I can still push stock through, however, with a very slim push-stick that I have hanging over my saw.
Gary

[Pat Germain]

Thanks, Gary. I used both wheels only once, then left just the back wheel in place. This works well, but I wanted to make sure it was a "legitimate" configuration. I'll install the front wheel when it doesn't get in the way.

Rob, the BB's are highly adjustable. It seems to me you could vary the installation height by a few inches and compensate by adjusting the wheels where they screw to the mounting bolt as well as the height adjuster at the back of the mounting bracket.

Funny, I had seen one of those yellow wheels somewhere years ago, but when I asked the guy at Woodcraft about it, he knew nothing. He eventually remembered he stocked something like it, and pointed me to the BBs and a similar Woodcraft brand without the anti-kickback feature. Since the BBs were the same price, I went with those. I was wondering if only I had a problem with stock coming away from the fence. It's nice to learn BBs are in use and favorably reviewed by the folks here on SMC. I sure like them.

[Mike Marcade]

How much better do these work than featherboards?

-Mike

[Gary Keedwell]

How much better do these work than featherboards?

-Mike
I still use featherboards, occasionally, but their not very practical sometimes, especially with sheet goods.
gary

[Cary Swoveland]

I'm very pleased with the Board Buddies, after having tried several other types of hold-downs and featherboards. For narrow rips, I often use two BBs, with two sticks, one stick for pushing the stock (under the front BB) through the end of the cut, the other for holding the stock down after it clears the front BB.

When installing the BBs, I suggest you initially try different heights and left-right positions on top of your fence, using scrap stock. Note that, for each cut, there are two ways of adjusting the BBs: turning the eye bolt and sliding the BB left and right on its base.

Cary

[Mark Singer]

good way to do it is add the blocks from Peach Tree

http://www.ptreeusa.com/tablesaw_products.htm#buddies

[Rob Blaustein]

good way to do it is add the blocks from Peach Tree

http://www.ptreeusa.com/tablesaw_products.htm#buddies

I'm too impatient and want to do this today, so I'm making my own mounting blocks, but I thought I'd start with the same dimensions as those blocks. Do you know how thick they are?

[Roy Wall]

I'm too impatient and want to do this today, so I'm making my own mounting blocks, but I thought I'd start with the same dimensions as those blocks. Do you know how thick they are?


Rob - Those blocks from Peachtree are:

4.75 L x 2 W x .75 thick

the little "tenon" (on the underside for alingment) that fits in my minitrack is a qtr inch wide and just protrudes a 1/8th

[Rob Blaustein]

Rob - Those blocks from Peachtree are:

4.75 L x 2 W x .75 thick

the little "tenon" (on the underside for alingment) that fits in my minitrack is a qtr inch wide and just protrudes a 1/8th

Thanks Roy, just what I was looking for. Your thread on the BB's was extremely helpful. I printed it out and have been referring to it for my own installation. I wasn't planning to have any sort of tenon protruding from the bottom of my blocks, and just figured that tightening the knob/T-bolt would be ok. I might put two knobs per--I'll see how one works.

A related question for you Roy, and others who have used T-track--how do you attach it? The only screws I have that will fit are #6 wood screws, and when you cut a 3/8" dado in 3/4" ply (or 1"), you have to use a pretty short screw, like 1/2". Four of those (I'm using a 30" long track) doesn't strike me as a lot of holding strength. I ended up gluing the T-track into the dado in addition to using screws, but maybe that's overkill.

[Rob Blaustein]

I wasn't planning to have any sort of tenon protruding from the bottom of my blocks, and just figured that tightening the knob/T-bolt would be ok. I might put two knobs per--I'll see how one works.

Hmm, just realized that without that tenon riding in the T-track and only one knob to tighten, the BB can spin, so it sounds like I would need to T-bolts on either side, or add a tenon somehow.

[Roy Wall]

Thanks Roy, just what I was looking for. Your thread on the BB's was extremely helpful. I printed it out and have been referring to it for my own installation. I wasn't planning to have any sort of tenon protruding from the bottom of my blocks, and just figured that tightening the knob/T-bolt would be ok. I might put two knobs per--I'll see how one works.

A related question for you Roy, and others who have used T-track--how do you attach it? The only screws I have that will fit are #6 wood screws, and when you cut a 3/8" dado in 3/4" ply (or 1"), you have to use a pretty short screw, like 1/2". Four of those (I'm using a 30" long track) doesn't strike me as a lot of holding strength. I ended up gluing the T-track into the dado in addition to using screws, but maybe that's overkill.

Rob -

The Peachtree UHMW blocks could be a bit longer... maybe 5.5". The Lock Knob is SO close to the thumbscrews that allow the BB to slide back and forth (dovetailed keyway) it could use a little more clearance. I agree with you a simple T-bolt/knob will fit the bill.

I did the same thing on installing the T-track. Yes, the 3/4" ply with a dado leaves LITTLE "teeth room" for fastening. I think I used the smallest screw, then "clipped" off the ends that protruded through....I don't think I glued it - but that's a good idea. I probably should have used 1" thick material...but it has been holding well ever since installation. I know the 3-4 self tapping metal lag screws I put into the fence tube are super strong:)

I (still) really enjoy those BB's! I think they keep the work tight against the fence for good accuracy and are EXCELLENT at preventing kickback. I use the rear wheel 100% of the time on rip cuts...the front not so much unless its larger sheet goods.

I'm looking forward to your version....it will be excellent as always!! Show us pics later....

[Roy Wall]

Hmm, just realized that without that tenon riding in the T-track and only one knob to tighten, the BB can spin, so it sounds like I would need to T-bolts on either side, or add a tenon somehow.

I Agree !!

[Joe Mioux]

you guys lost me with the "blocks" in this thread....

anyway.....

How many of you only use one? I do and that is on the outfeed side of the blade.

I suppose a second one would come in handy if I were ripping wider boards. Any thoughts?

joe

[Rob Blaustein]

you guys lost me with the "blocks" in this thread....



The things you mount the board buddies on. And then you attach those to the fence. For example:
Cary Swoveland's thread (http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=57706&highlight=board+buddies)
or
Roy Wall's (http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=48448&highlight=board+buddies).

[Kevin L. Pauba]

Also, I have a radial arm saw and them mention that they move only CCW. But when the blade is in the "in rip" position, you feed it in the same way you would with a TS -- that would dictate the yellow BB. If the blade is in the out-rip position, the orange would be needed (and this, in fact, is the way it is shown in some advertisements). Would I buy both?

[Gary Keedwell]

This thread seems too complicated for what it is. I found a nice QSWO board and ripped it to fit inside the top of my Bies. fence.
I then dado said board to fit aluminum track. I countersink the track holes a little deeper to ensure screw heads tighten below surface. I then drill and countersink holes in my board for machine screws. I then place the board where I want it on the fence and use the same clearance drill to put a spot on the fence where the holes will be. Remove board and drill and tap thread to receive machine screw. Put the fence back in place and install machine screws in the tapped holes....job done.
Alot of guys like to use the self-tapping screws that they sell at the borgs, but as I have a machine shop background I had the right machine screws and matching taps for the threads.
Gary

[Rob Blaustein]

This thread seems too complicated for what it is. I found a nice QSWO board and ripped it to fit inside the top of my Bies. fence.
I then dado said board to fit aluminum track. I countersink the track holes a little deeper to ensure screw heads tighten below surface. I then drill and countersink holes in my board for machine screws. I then place the board where I want it on the fence and use the same clearance drill to put a spot on the fence where the holes will be. Remove board and drill and tap thread to receive machine screw. Put the fence back in place and install machine screws in the tapped holes....job done.
Alot of guys like to use the self-tapping screws that they sell at the borgs, but as I have a machine shop background I had the right machine screws and matching taps for the threads.
Gary

Yes, that's exactly what I'm doing. I don't think this thread is all that complicated. Now this (http://wolfram-stanek.de/maxwell/maxwell_embedded_subset.htm) is complicated.

I agree about the self tapping screws--I tried it and it just wasn't working. Probably cheap screws. So I drilled and tapped for 1/4-20 and it's working well--almost done. Would have finished last night, but juggling newborn (stealth gloat).

[Gary Keedwell]

LOL Maybe only complicated to the unfocused. Congrats on the new addition.;)
Gary

[Michael Lutz]

When I installed my Board buddies I cut a width of UHMW to fit my fence. The UHMW was 3/4" thick. I installed a t-track in a dado on the UHMW. The UHMW was installed to the fence with 1/4-20 hex bolts through tapped holes. The hex nuts were recessed into the UHMW. The t-track was installed with 1/2" long screws. I used the left over UHMW to make two mounting blocks for the BBs.

Mike

[Gary Keedwell]

When I installed my Board buddies I cut a width of UHMW to fit my fence. The UHMW was 3/4" thick. I installed a t-track in a dado on the UHMW. The UHMW was installed to the fence with 1/4-20 hex bolts through tapped holes. The hex nuts were recessed into the UHMW. The t-track was installed with 1/2" long screws. I used the left over UHMW to make two mounting blocks for the BBs.

Mike
Just curious...what are the advantages of having plastic instead of a wood board? Maybe I'm not getting a visual picture.:)

Gary

[Michael Lutz]

Theoretically, it should slide better. In practice wood would have worked just as well. I saw a thread where someone had put a track on their fence made out of UHMW. I thought it was a cool idea so I used it.

Mike

[Al Willits]

I attached a 3/8"s alum plate to the top of my fence, then attached the plate that came with the BB's to that, it allows me to move the rollers back and forth depending on what I'm doing.

I installed the Shark Guard and its riving knife and usually they work well together, there are times that both or neither of the BB will work or visa versa with the guard, so each time I use them, I try to use the best set up, easy to change around so its no problem.

Seems hard to come up with a set up that works for everything.
I'd buy the BB and Shark guard again, fwiw.

Al

[Bill White]

I have the yellow, green, and orange BBs. I keep the yellow for cuts on left side of fence ( I have a right tilt TS), and the orange for when I move the fence to the left of he blade.
I used 'em for years on the RAS with great results.
Bill

[Rob Blaustein]

Finally finished my installation and took some pics. I used phenolic coated 3/4" baltic birch that I had around. It's very flat and smooth, and nice for jigs. I got it from my local Woodcraft (it's also available at Woodpeckers but theirs is red). I actually used it a while back to replace the UHMW strip on the left side of my fence (it's a flatter surface) as is evident in some of the pics.

I pretty much followed in the footsteps of others who have done this and were kind enough to post pics.

7601676017
Dadoed out a groove (first time using a router for this--that was fun), attached the T-track, and attached to the fence via 1/4-20 bolts after tapping the holes in the top of the fence as Gary describe above. I'm sure I could have used smaller machine screws (after all, the T-track is held in by #6 screws plus some glue since I was nervous about that) but they were the only ones I had available. I mounted the bb's on blocks made of that same stuff, and also made a few 'shims' of 1/4" and 1/2" in case I needed to raise the bb's up higher.

Here they are installed. I think they are intentionally toed in towards the fence--you can see that from the last pic--there is more room on the right in the front part of that sliding dovetail that they sit in. I imagine this helps keep things tight to the fence. Haven't given them a whirl yet.
760147601576018

One last note--I realized that not all T-track is the same. I have a few pieces that I picked up for jigs at different times and one takes a 1/4-20 bolt head, the other requires those special oval pieces.