Engraving Pad Printer Plates?

[Tracey Bakewell]

Hey Gang!

Well, I took a new leap into the promotions world. I was finding I was turning too many people away that wanted promotional items done that my engraver couldn't do. Now I've added a Pad Printer (formerly a Press-A-Print operator) to my shop so anything I can't engrave, then I'll try to print.

Well! Would you believe you have to go through this 4 step rigorous process to make a plate that basically seems to act like would we would refer to as paint filing a engraved job. Except, in this case, the pad printer has a plunger type thing that goes down onto the reservoir'd paint with the image, then you plung down on your object which then puts on it the paint it picks up from the reservoir -- hmm, does that make sense :).

So, my question is, anyone come across this combination and figured out a way to just laser engrave out the plate for the image that needs to act as the reservoir to hold the paint? The process they use has you print onto laser file, then expose the image to UV light, and so on, and so on, leaving you with an image "engraved" out of a plate.

Am I the first to think of a better way to make these plates? I can't image I am! Any assistance or advice would be greatly appreciated!

[Darryl Hazen]

Tracey,

I've been doing this for a while now. Take the cliche plate, remove the protective clear cover, reverse the artwork as you would for making the plates using the black light. I have a 45 watt Epilog and I usually run these at 100 speed, 30 power and 600 DPI. You might get by with less power. It might be better to use lower power and make two passes until you get the right setting. Too much power will distort the surrounding polymer. When you're done you can just set the plate out in bright sunlight or expose it under the blacklight for about 6 minutes to post cure the photopolymer. This method is certainly easier than the original method.

Hope this helps.
Darryl

[Tracey Bakewell]

Yeah, thanks Darryl, that does help! So, do you think it is still necessary to use the plates that were designed for this method or is there some other just regular acrylic or plastic plastic from IPI or Rowmark, etc. that would work instead?

[Bill Cunningham]

I've been making polymer plates for years, for both printing and rubber stamps. The plates themselves have been used for 3-d awards, when washed out completely.. The only reservation I would have about using something other than the usual plates, is the ink reaction with the other plastic.. You may have to experiment to find one that the ink does not eat.. Also, be very careful with the fumes.. A former supplier of mine was setup at the awards show in Toronto several years ago, and there was a Pad printer running in the next booth.. This ladies daughter who was working with her, collapsed from the fumes, and was rushed off to the hospital.. It neurologically affected her for quite a long time, and the resulting law suit affected the company selling the pad printers.. MAKE SURE you have VERY good ventilation around the machine and watch the fumes...

[Darryl Hazen]

Tracey,

I don't see why you couldn't use another material. the only questions I would have would be whether the ink would attack the material and would the doctor blade used to clean off the excess ink scratch the surface. It might be interesting to try doing one with some laserable plastic like Rowmark. The laser method does a great job creating half tone plates. Let me know what you find out if you try another material. I'll let you know if I find out anything.

[Tracey Bakewell]

Hey Bill!

Oh yeah! I see your 'PolymerPlatemaker' in your signature! I definite hear you on the ventilation and I won't be taking this unit anywhere. It is setup at home right next to a window and it definitely fumes up the place fast!

So, the first thing we tried was using a plate that had already been created, and engraving on that, vs. engraving first, then exposing to the blacklight. The image just never came out right on the mug, and we know it was the plate, because when we used the test plate that came with the unit, it worked fine. Why would that matter? Maybe I just still did not go deep enough?

[Rodne Gold]

I use Traffolite for cliche plates , its a phenolic samwich type material and is almost like formica and is pretty much inert. It has a ultra smooth surface and lasts pretty much for a long time.
The only caveat I can give you is for large area engraving , we do not engrave large areas as solids cos the inks scoop out in the middle and the laser doesnt provide a good surface , we convert the large areas to greyscale and engrave em as halftones (closely spaced dots)

TRAFFOLITE
A three-ply high pressure melamine engraving laminate in a range of colour and metal finishes, used for clean line, easy-to-read, minimum maintenance interior signs with applications ranging from identification and warning signs in industrial and commercial complexes to directory slats, lapel names and tags.

Tungsten carbide cutters only should be used when engraving Traffolyte
Sheet Size: 1220 x 1010
Thickness: 1.5mm
Colours: 10 colour combinations
Sold in full and half sheetsThis stuff lasers EXTREMELY well , the detail you can get is phenomenal
I don't know what its called in the USA - Deldrin??

[Mike Null]

Rodney

What you're describing sounds a lot like phenolic. If so, it's available from Johnson Plastics and others.

[Tracey Bakewell]

" we do not engrave large areas as solids cos the inks scoop out in the middle and the laser doesnt provide a good surface , we convert the large areas to greyscale and engrave em as halftones (closely spaced dots) "

OK, I think I've almost got it now from all the replies, now one more question!... So when you engrave the large surface areas as halftones, I think this may solve a problem I was having yesterday while testing this new pad printer. How do you convert to halftones? Are you doing that in the printer properties when you send a job to the laser?

Thanks everyone!

I even found the phenolic on Johnson Plastics so I'm going to order a sheet to play with. In the description area it does say "Resistant to solvents and chemicals" and can be used for hot stamping and silk-screening - I definitely feel I'm on the right track to making this a little easier!!! Especially during my learning phase while I still have to try and figure out how to make the inks and apply the ink on the products, QUITE the learning curve!

[Mike Null]

Tracey

Before you buy a sheet why not ask Johnson to send a sample or two. I have a different application and they are sending samples for me.

Keep in mind, I'm not sure this is the material Rodney is describing.

[Tracey Bakewell]

Ah yes, good point! I just called them and they're sending samples but it sounds like that's a pretty low priority for them so it will probably be at least 7 to 10 bus. days before I see it, with T'giving here, that's going to be quite a ways out :(

I'll use the left over existing plates that are still in the UV protective wrapped package for more testing I guess. I'm still trying to figure out if it is necessary for those to be exposed to light once engraved??? I'm still not getting how that material works I guess.

[Richard Rumancik]

Tracey - check out this site, or search on "LaserPro" & "pad printing"

http://gccworld.com/about_news_press_detail.php?LANG=English&ID=English_070621200459

They do not say where to get the plates. With pad printing, depth is important (I think the target is around .001" deep).

Also Markem sells a complete system (plates and laser) but maybe you could find a distributor that will sell you plates only?

Search on "Markem" & "QuickLase" to find them.

I'm sure the plates will be more expensive than buying sheet material but at least you know it is available and being done that way . . .

[Mike Null]

Tracey

I looked into this several years back and did some unsuccessful testing. I did not try phenolic at that point but one of the things I'm pretty sure you'll find is that the laser quality will not be on a par with the photopolymer process.

The difference may turn out to be insignificant but if this were a great idea it would have been done years ago because it would be so much cheaper.

[Richard Rumancik]

Mike . . . I have not tried pad printing but did some research on lasering cliche plates - I don't know how well the Markem system works but they seem to have made it into a product.

As far as laser being cheaper - in what way? For a pad printing company that does not have a laser, the photopolymer route is probably much cheaper. You'd have to make a lot of plates to justify a laser. But if you have a laser, and want to get into pad printing, then maybe the laser could be used to make cliches quickly. As far as quality I have no firsthand experience here. I think the Markem cliches have a thin polymer coating on a metalic surface so the depth of penetration of the laser is controlled by the coating thickness, not by the laser (which would be unpredictable when you are trying to hit a depth target of say .0010" plus or minus a few tenths. ) Sounds good in theory. Did you find that the laser resolution was not good enough? Or was the depth control the problem?

[Mike Mackenzie]

Tracy,

It just happens that this company is using our laser systems to do what you are asking, They also have developed the material to use on our systems to create the printing plates.

http://www.itwtranstech.com/Pages/padprintnotebook.html

[Mike Null]

Richard

At the point I was experimenting with this idea I believe the cost of plates was about $40 each, hence my reference to the laser being a lower cost option. (I had a laser and was considering buying a pad printer)

It would appear that there have been new developments since then though I can't imagine how the engraving of the laser can match the photo process for quality.

[Tracey Bakewell]

WOW, that website is AWESOME... I haven't even found what I'm looking for yet and got distracted with everything else they offer. I'm suposed to be engraving a picture frame for a friend right now so THANKS! For the distraction :>

No really, thank you!

[Ruben Salcedo]

Check here, http://www.itwtranstech.com/Pages/StarLight_LPM.html it was not easy to find :)


Ruben

[Tracey Bakewell]

Oh perfect! Yes, that StarLight LPM product looks to fit the bill and they also advertise doing laser plates for you as well! I filled out their contact me form so now I guess it won't be until Friday until I hear from anyone.

Thanks!
Tracey

[Tracey Bakewell]

Tracy,

It just happens that this company is using our laser systems to do what you are asking, They also have developed the material to use on our systems to create the printing plates.

http://www.itwtranstech.com/Pages/padprintnotebook.html

So, I did get a call back from these guys, aparently, they are actually one of the biggest suppliers to Press-A-Print users for their inks and pads, etc. Anyway, they are sending me some samples but it will be "a couple of weeks" before I get anything! I'm also waiting on samples from Johnson Plastics for that other material.

I will post updates when I get everything and see what happens!

Thanks everyone!
Tracey

[Richard Rumancik]

Hi Tracey - while you are waiting for your samples check out Inkcups as well. They sell CO2 laserable and YAG laserable pad printing plates (as well as traditional photopolymer). A bit more info on their site at
www.inkcups.com/dotNet/pages/2e_supplies-plates.aspx (http://www.inkcups.com/dotNet/pages/2e_supplies-plates.aspx)