How do I fix this Door Separation??

[Kris Hammer]

The joint at the top-hinge area is separating a little at the top - see attached. The manufacturer recommends gluing (they use Titebond II).

I tried a 4' bar clamp diagonally to test if I could bring it together, but I can only close the gap about 60% (my torque limitation on the handle).

Does anyone have any recommendations on how to bring it together, how to get the glue down in there, and what glue to use? I had planned on trying Sumo glue.

Be easy on the wood-newbie...

["Jason Belous"]

May or may not be best for your situation but I am a finish carpenter by trade and do historical restoration work and architectural trim for a living and typicaly when this happens I'll actually set up a spreader clamp and split the joint even farther. this will allow me to get more t-b- three in their and then use a 3"screw through the jamb side and plug with proper grained plug. Match your grain, sand, stain and should be as good as new. You maby get some better options here but that's my solution. I am assuming this is as entry door?

[Ben Grunow]

My experience with that type of thing is that no glue will really hold that forever. The surfaces are not clean wood and the glue joint has already failed due to what appears to be a warping stile on the door which is a huge piece of wood and if you bend it back witha clamp, I suspect that the wood fibers will tear/split instead of hold.

I would suggest cleaining things out the best you can and filling the gap with a thickened epoxy that is tinted dark (heard of someone here using coffee grounds) to look like a grain line. Just MHO but I have done that before and had no luck.

Only other thought would be a long screw or 2 in the side of the door to hold things together additionally.

Ben

[Todd Jensen]

I like both recommendations so far. Shim the gap a little so you can get some adhesive in there - Titebond II, Sumo, Gorilla, whatever - and then screw it shut. With its placement you could probably get away with a couple of 3" trim screws and a little putty which would save you time of the plug and never be seen. My only addition would be to be sure and pre-drill your screw holes(a titch smaller than the screw) to avoid splitting.

...On second look, it appears you could have an even bigger problem? The split is on the hinge side at the top and it appears the weight of the door is causing it to separate from the door stile that is attached to the hinges. Either way I would not fix the door in place - stick a shim in to maintain the gap before you remove the door and repair it while its flat on a bench or saw horses to take the stress off of it. I'd then wait a good 24 hours for the glue to fully cure to re-install. If thats your front door and you don't want it off that long, re-install after the fix but limit your usage while the glue cures.

[Kris Hammer]

It is reassuring to have so many great inputs - thanks!

I would really like to put a nice 3-4" stainless smooth-shank square-drive deck screw (or two) in there (let me know if that is wrong), but I am not sure what I am screwing into. Please see the newly attached photo. It looks like there are one or more pieces of wood inserted into the U-cutout. Structurally, that is about where I need to put the screw(s), but I do not want to risk compromising this mysterious internal structure. Further input?

Aesthetically, the screw would be in an invisible location - no issue.

Fortunately, it does not appear to have separated any further over the last three years since purchase. Judging by the fit it has sagged a little since installation, but no amount of jacking and clamping can bring the gap fully together.

It is the front door:
http://www.latsonsmill.com/doorpics_lrg/LCM127.htm (http://www.latsonsmill.com/doorpics_lrg/LCM127.htm)

[Mark Rios]

The door doesn't look that old. Why isn't the manufacturer giving you a new door?

[Kris Hammer]

The door doesn't look that old. Why isn't the manufacturer giving you a new door?

It is out of warranty unfortunately...

[Tom Godley]

Do you think the problem is wood movement from season to season -- or do you feel that it is the weight of the door. I would think that it is a wood movement issue first.

I have had problems in three different houses with wood doors -- the cost of a few of them were more than I care to think about - especially the custom front doors. Modern doors - no matter what you pay - just are not like the old first growth doors of old.


I did try to have one "fixed" - made a mess of it. If you can not close the gap with a clamp - the glue will not work. If you can close the gap you still have the problem of the new glue not holding because of the old.

If you know who made the door they should be able to tell you the construction. But, if you try to use a screw you may just split the wood - or whatever is actually inside that T&G joint. Ask me how I know.

I have a front door made out of brazilian mahogany - They now tell me african mahogany is better!!!. I had the best luck using furniture color sticks to fill the small gaps - I was surprised how well it worked. You can blend them and buff them with a cloth. I had a raised area at the top as you do - I was going to file it flat - but after I filled the crack I felt that it was just best to leave it alone. It is the crack you notice most. By the way you can always remove the wax if you do not like it.

[Todd Jensen]

I marked on your picture where I would be aiming to put the screw; I only marked the side closest and would do the same on the other side.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z66/grizzified/structure-1.jpg

[Norman Hitt]

Without being able to remove that piece completely, the only surfaces you will be able to clean the old glue off of are the ones that butt end grain to long grain, and that is not strong enough to hold. "NO Glue" will hold to the old glue that is in there now, (Ref Bob Smalser's Glues test on this Forum). Unless you could remove that whole piece and clean the old glue off of the faces of the tenons and the mortise faces, the only chance you have is to shim and clean all of the old glue you can get to, and then fill the joint gap with your choice of epoxy, putty, wax, etc. and then use the two screws mentioned in the other posts and even then it may not hold well due to the load since that is the hinge side. Good luck with whatever method you decide on.

[Mike McCann]

They had an episode on this old house that had the same problem with the front door. They were fixing up a two family house is Boston. They used some special screws that were about 6 inches long. They first seperated the crack to make it bigger to clean out and add glue. they then clamped it and used the long screws. they door was not rounded like yours however and were able to clamp it tight.

[Rick Gifford]

Contact the manufacturer and ask them how they recommend repairing it.

Tell them how disappointed you are in the quality of their product, you expected so much more!

You might get ahold of someone who cares and take care of you with this.

As the saying goes, a satisfied customer tells three friends and an unsatisfied customer tells thirty.

[andy brown]

Hi,
It's a really bad idea to use a bridle joint as the makers have lazily done with your door.
I also think screwing it together is not really the way forward as I think the wood could split with the screws in it.
My thoughts, such as they are, run along these lines;
Below, or even within, the bridle you could make a mortice running into the door as deep as will allow. Make a false tenon to fit, make 2 sawcuts for wedges, angle the outer cuts of the mortice to allow for the wedges, clean out the old joint, cramp the door, apply glue to tenon etc etc.
Good luck.

Andy.

[Brian Backner]

Todd,

As you would be driving this screw into end grain, I doubt that it would hold for very long. To give it a better chance, drill holes in the top rail perpendicular to the screw and drive in 1/2" dowels for the screw to bite into.

Brian


I marked on your picture where I would be aiming to put the screw; I only marked the side closest and would do the same on the other side.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z66/grizzified/structure-1.jpg

[Bob Aquino]

The joint at the top-hinge area is separating a little at the top - see attached. The manufacturer recommends gluing (they use Titebond II).

I tried a 4' bar clamp diagonally to test if I could bring it together, but I can only close the gap about 60% (my torque limitation on the handle).

Does anyone have any recommendations on how to bring it together, how to get the glue down in there, and what glue to use? I had planned on trying Sumo glue.

Be easy on the wood-newbie...

You have a couple of things wrong here. For starters, you have a cross grain situation, with the grains running at 90 degrees to each other at that joint. Added to that the fact its the hinge side on a heavy door and the whole thing was originally dependent on the glue to hold it. I seem to remember Bob Smalser doing something on regluing joints and if I recall, titebond 2 didnt do too well in that experiment.

You could try and drive some long screws in from the end of the side through the tenon into the rail of the door. That might be enough to hold it together. What would probably fix it once and for all is to clamp it as tight as you can and drill through the door front to back and peg it. A pegged joint will probably stay where it is but now you have to finish it off nicely and it may look out of place. Here is a picture of a pegged joint:

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/uploadedImages/Fine_Woodworking_Network/Image_Resources/Knots_Images/lowereina1.jpg

[Lee Schierer]

Personally I like the idea of a couple of screws to hold things together. One suggestion on that thought would be to use pan head or round head screws and not a flat head screw. The taper on the back side of the flat head will tend to split the wood. Better still would be a flat washer with a screw through it inside the hole for maximum strength and tension on the joint. Get some high strength screws and not cheap ones as if a cheap one breaks you'll really have a problem.

[Tom Godley]

To my eye this does not look like a weight problem - It looks as if the wood of the top retreated as it dried out - or the stile warped.

If it has not moved in three years I do not think it is going move any more.