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Al Willits
11-15-2007, 12:10 PM
Just discovered some of the cement block that makes up our house foundation has crimbled on the side of the block that faces outside, I seem to have a couple of small (?) holes now, one is about 5 or 6" in diameter and the other is about 2".
These are about 4 layers of block that are above ground and the holes are near the top where the house sits on them.
House is about 60 or 70 years old btw

We are planning on having all the outside block resurfaced/repaired next year, but I need to do something in the mean time.

Any suggestions on what to do and what types of concrete I should use to patch ??
These are the sandard cement blocks that are about 8" high, little over a foot long and about 6-8" thick (hollow in center)..or close to that..:)

tia

Al

Glenn Clabo
11-15-2007, 12:47 PM
Old standby is make sure there isn't anything lose...wet where you are going to patch and use 50% cement and 50% sand mixture to fill the holes.

New way... http://www.usehickson.com/StoneMason/ConcreteRepair/InstantPatchingCement.shtml

Mitchell Andrus
11-15-2007, 1:14 PM
I'd be best to replace the bad blocks. The area surrounding the area is likely to be just as bad and unlikely to hold a patch.

Al Willits
11-15-2007, 1:30 PM
"""""
I'd be best to replace the bad blocks
"""""""

Thanks guys, not to fond of doing cement work in freezing temps, its my understanding cement doesn't do well then, so looking to just patch till next spring, but ya the surrounding area is not very good either.

Glenn is sand mixture, just sand or concrete that's a sand mixture??
Not done much concrete work before, other than patching a crack or two..
I'll check the web site you posted, thanks.

Al...who also doesn't do well in freezing temps...:)

Glenn Clabo
11-15-2007, 1:45 PM
[quote=Al Willits;694638
Glenn is sand mixture, just sand or concrete that's a sand mixture??
Not done much concrete work before, other than patching a crack or two..
[/quote]

Al...Common misconception...Concrete is cement plus sand and gravel. You don't really need the gravel for this.

Also...if you are below freezing...that's a problem. You really don't want it to freeze. What people do is use warm water, add accelerators, and provide protection. This is a relatively small patch so you may be able to keep it from freezing. I also don't know how the new patching compounds react to cold. I'd check out what's available locally (big boxes carry this stuff) and do the best you can until spring...just to keep the critters and cold out.

p.s. Patching site says "Apply in temperatures between -7°C (20°F) to 49°C (120°F). "

Don Abele
11-15-2007, 1:48 PM
Al, while I've done my fair share of concrete work I'm no expert - but I have one on staff. She's a SeaBee Builder that specializes in concrete.

She said to rough up the area around the holes by lightly hitting it with a hammer (the blocks "should" have been sealed when installed and this will stop the mortar from adhering well enough). Then patch using standard mortar mix. She said the ready-mix stuff in the bag is the easiest to use.

Mortar is sand, cement, and lime in a 3:2:1 ratio. The lime is what helps to make it stick and is an essential part. It's also what makes your hands tingle when working with it and will peel your skin until you don't have finger prints (DAMHIKT). :eek: You mix it until it is thick like peanut butter so it stays where you put it.

Hope this helps, let us know how it turns out.

Be well,

Doc

Al Willits
11-15-2007, 2:31 PM
Thanks all, I think I have enough info to at least keep large dogs and small people from getting in..:)

Looks like I'll have to replace block next summer, but leaning toward having someone do it...least till a get a few bids and suffer from sticker shock..:)

Al

Matt Meiser
11-15-2007, 3:28 PM
Al, my brother has a similar but less severe problem on his house (which is probably pretty close to you.) We patched them with some hydraulic cement which we had bought to seal up between the hole we drilled through a block and the piece of PVC conduit we ran through the hole. We found the hydraulic cement in the paint department at Home Depot.

The good thing about hydraulic cement as I understand is that it expands slightly when it cures instead of shrinking slightly like regular cement. That helps lock it into holes (or provide a better grip on a pipe like we were doing.)

Al Willits
11-15-2007, 5:02 PM
Al, my brother has a similar but less severe problem on his house (which is probably pretty close to you.) We patched them with some hydraulic cement which we had bought to seal up between the hole we drilled through a block and the piece of PVC conduit we ran through the hole. We found the hydraulic cement in the paint department at Home Depot.

The good thing about hydraulic cement as I understand is that it expands slightly when it cures instead of shrinking slightly like regular cement. That helps lock it into holes (or provide a better grip on a pipe like we were doing.)


So...not gonna visit your brother soon are ya?? :D

Thanks.
Might be a good idea, the cement..er....concrete is pretty shaky and can probably use all the help it can get.
Gonna be up to 42 this sat and if I have to I can poly a tent over it and stick a small heater in it.

Figure one of the borgs will have in in bags...I hope.

Al...where's gobal warming when ya need it???

Matt Meiser
11-15-2007, 11:29 PM
Probably not until after school is out next summer. Unless my 30 minute layover/plane change in Minneapolis isn't long enough in a few weeks. If I don't make it I'm going to try to get Northwest to let me spend the weekend. They live within walking distance of the park where Minnehaha Falls is--is that close to you?

The stuff we bought came in a quart can, but I don't remember if they had something bigger. I thought it was odd for a powder to be in a can. It cures very fast so if the daytime temps are OK, you might be good.

David G Baker
11-15-2007, 11:34 PM
Al,
Do you know what caused your block problem? Do you know if it was caused by moisture getting in the block and going through the freeze/thaw expand problem like I have with cracks in my concrete slabs.

Brian Elfert
11-16-2007, 4:18 AM
My parent's garage has a similiar problem. The garage foundation walls are partially exposed and the blocks are flaking due to moisture getting into the block wall. The block wall is exactly even with the garage floor so moisture from snow melting flows into the wall.

I suggested my dad fix this when they had $45,000 worth of siding and window work done on the house. He didn't have it done and now the only good fix is to build a sort of concrete curb along the edge of the floor to keep moisture out.

Al Willits
11-16-2007, 9:19 AM
Matt, I live very close to the Falls, maybe a couple miles at most, ya get over that way anytime give a holler.
34 ave and 54 st if ya know where that is.

I believe its crumbling because someone before us put a poor layer of mortar/concrete/? on the block and water has gotten between that and the block, house is about 60 years old so the block could have been cracking and they tried to cover it, not sure, but the outer layer of the block is crumbling in spots.

I'm looking for a mason now to see what the best way to fix this will be, but have to do something for the winter.
Also the tree falling on the wife's car and house didn't help either, that was a bit more expensive than we figured on, even with insurance, so any major projects will have to wait a bit.

And I have the feeling this will be major....grrrrrr

Al...who thinks as years go, this hasn't been the best....Hopelessly lost, but making good time...:D

Per Swenson
11-16-2007, 5:36 PM
Al,

When blocks crumble, good chance they are cinder blocks.

Building blocks today are made with concrete.

If you take a small chunk of block, turn it to powder with a hammer,

wet it, and it turns black...Cinder.

If this is the case, patching it is akin to the little Dutch boy with his

finger in the dike. It will stay for awhile..but.

On the other hand if its concrete, as was said above, tooth the surrounding

area with a mason hammer, then apply concrete bonding adhesive,

http://www.wrmeadows.com/wrm00020.htm

patch with mortar mix (Premix) or type M (add sand).

Hope this helps.

Per

Matt Meiser
11-16-2007, 9:47 PM
Al, they are at 44th and 44th I think so I guess that makes you 10 blocks over and 10 blocks down.

Al Willits
11-16-2007, 10:58 PM
Thanks Per, they're concrete, years of weather have been hard on them, I noticed the sidewalk is pretty pitted so I'm suspecting the previous owners used salt to keep the walks clear of ice, lot of that going on up here, least till they figure the salt eats the cement over time.

Matt, we're almost neighbors, you fly up to see them you probably drive right by our place to get to their house, let me know when your coming, I'm buy a few extra bags of cement....:D

Al

Brian Elfert
11-18-2007, 11:31 AM
It is getting pretty late in the season to think about concrete repairs in Minnesota. Standard concrete work can be done when it is above 20 degrees, but some of the patching products want the temps to be 40 degrees or better for 24 hours or more.

I better get off my computer and go wash my windows while it is still above freezing. (35 degrees out right now.)

Al Willits
11-18-2007, 9:46 PM
Ya, a bit cool...:)

I whoosed out and filled the hole with that expanding foam in a can, I'll try and put a tarp over it till spring, then repair it.

But thanks for all the info, I have a good head start on what to do now.

Al

Cliff Rohrabacher
11-19-2007, 9:48 AM
I'd be best to replace the bad blocks. The area surrounding the area is likely to be just as bad and unlikely to hold a patch.

What that guy said. In the meantime you can effect a temp patch using any "freeze cure" rated mortar compound and some crushed rocks. Or wait for a warmer day.