Assembly or Finish ..Which is First?

[James Ross]

Newbie Question. I am making a Picnic Caddy out of 1/2 inch walnut for the wife and it essentally is a serving tray with dividers.

The main tray will have box joints at the corners and a thin plywood bottom. The dividers will be walnut. I plan to cut rabbets for glueing the bottom and dividers.

Question: After finish sanding all the individual pieces, do I glue the assembly and the apply the finish, or vice versa? I f the finish is applied prior to assembly, will the glue bond the assembly together if the finish material gets in the grooves?

What is a good, relativly quick finish for walnut?

Thanks for your assistance?

Alan Ross

PS I am now a contributor to the creek. You guys have been very helpful already and is well worth a contribution.

[Grant Wilkinson]

You'll likely get as many different opinions on this as replies. I would finish last. As to what finish, I like to seal walnut with a 1 or 2 lb cut of shellac. Then apply as many coats of poly or lacquer as you like. You can get all these finishes in spray cans. That will make it easier to get into all the cubbies.

[Mitchell Andrus]

When staining, I apply stain to as many parts apart as I can. Applying the finish... some sub-assemblies are much easier to finish apart - such as legs and table top. Zero need to finish together if they just bolt on anyway.

If a table's legs and skirt are to be artistically (faux) painted, of course final assembly can wait til the painter is done in order to ease the painter's work.

So as James says... all depends. Just remember, squeeze out wipes off of a topcoat more easily than bare wood.

[Lee Schierer]

Generally you assemble first and finish last. However, if there are areas where it wil be difficult to apply or remove the stain then stain them first. The same is true of the finish coats. On small compartments it may be easier to put the finish on before assembly. Protect the glue joint areas with masking tape if you stain or finish before assembly.

[Prashun Patel]

If you really want a quick finish and are willing to endure minor scuffs or to buff and refinish every couple years, then Danish oil works well. It wipes on easy, and gives the wood a 'silky' look and feel. You can sand and build the finish which'll deepen the affect, but it'll never build to the sheen or solidity of polyurethane.

It's WAY more forgiving to apply, though. If you go Danish, I'd glue and assemble first, and then wipe/brush the finish on.

If you choose to finish first, it's been recommended to me that you mask
off the gluable surfaces.

I saw a great rabbeted sanding block a guy made that allowed him to finish the pieces while unassembled, and then to sand off the locations where the glue'd go.

[James Ross]

Thanks for the advice. I think I will do the finish first and then assemble.

Alan

[Jim Becker]

I do a lot more pre-finishing, either fully or partially, prior to assembly these days. It's something that has evolved as my construction techniques have changed. I spend a little time masking sometimes, but I get better finishes, especially on interiors, when I can spray "flat"...

[Steve Schoene]

With the construction you have outlined I don't think finishing first is a good idea.

First, you really shouldn't get finish, or a pigmented stain on the areas which will be glued. On a box joint that's a lot of places to mask before finishing. The strength of glued joints would be significantly impaired by finish on the glue surfaces.

Second, it's almost impossible to assemble such a box without some need to plane or sand the joints flush after the glue up. Even things that have been dry fitted often need a little additional tweaking. If you have pre-stained or pre-finished the wood you can't do that necessary task.

With a plywood bottom you don't have to worry about wood shrinkage revealing an unstained area.

[Jesse Cloud]

I think Steve nailed it. No point in finishing first if you will need to sand or plane the fingers flush. You might, though, finish the insides before assembly - that's where its hard to get the glue off and the finish on after assembly.;)

[James Ross]

i am glad I asked. You guys ahve given me a lot of great ideas.

Thanks again
Alan

[Jared Cuneo]

I just made about 6 trays like you just described....from walnut and ash. As far as construction, a rabbeted bottom on a tray with dividers will be difficult to align properly IMHO, thats why I glue up the outer 4 pieces with the box joints (presanded on the inside), then sand down to 400 while its just 4 pieces (no top or bottom). Then I cut the fixed dividers that I have routed stopped 1/8" dados for, usually with a decorative curve cut in them. At that point, I run the assembly over a sheet of 220 to level the bottom. I thought about rabbeted inserts, but I use glued up panels for the bottoms, simply glued on and trimmed flush with the router table. After that, I cut and fit any removable dividers.....I thought at first that it might move and crack, but I left a sample in the trunk of my car (South Florida!) and its fine after many weeks.....

Most of them then get a few coats of Tung Oil and wax....thats that....

Let me know if you want some pics.....

JC