Kitchen cabinet designs

[John Kendall]

I did some searching, but wasn't quite able to find the information on how to design a good strong kitchen cabinet to hold 1.25" granite cabinet tops. I am a novice at building such creatures and if anyone knows what I need to get this project underway, I'd greatly appreciate the input.

I am hoping to use face framing, if that's of any help.

Thanks!!! :D

[Henk Marais]

John

We produce european style cabinets made from chippboard, wich is basicaly upright pannels (16mm chip) connected with brases.

The secret is to not make the cabinets to big. I find that 450mm (18inc) works well.

Asthetically this also works well because the door dimensions (720mm x 450mm) is the golden ratio and looks good.

Hope this helps.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Henk...you made an interesting point about door dimension ratio. Thanks.
-Jeff :)

[Greg Robbins]

Here's a pretty good book that will get you started and show you the basics of kitchen cabinet making.

http://www.amazon.com/Building-Traditional-Kitchen-Cabinets-Completely/dp/1561587974/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1194524131&sr=1-2

[mike wacker]

I've found this book to be pretty helpful.

http://www.amazon.com/Building-Kitchen-Cabinets-Udo-Schmidt/dp/1561584703/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b/002-0015580-2423270

[Hunter Wallace]

I just picked up that Kreg pocket screw jig thingy to do my
own cabinets and found that the instructions they give you
for building cabinets were really good. I've built two other
kitchens using other methods and am really suprised at how
easy and well the pocket screw system works...I mean,
that's pretty much why it was invented, so I guess that
makes sense:p
The pocket screw system also excels at face frame construction,
so I would highly recommend the Kreg, no matter the style
or detail of your cabinets.

[frank shic]

john, the previous books are great instruction although i've found the danny proulx book to be one of the easiest ones to follow. basic cutlists for the cabinet parts and the face frame parts as well as door dimensions are provided. for a strong joint, you need only to butt joint and screw with either confirmats or assembly screws. i'm not crazy about pocket holes since they're visible from underneath upper cabinets and they cause some shifting as you drive the screws. frameless cabinets built with either 16mm (5/8") or 19mm (3/4") material will easily support a granite slab and simplify construction but you need an ACCURATE way of cutting the panels. consider using adjustable levelling legs as outlined in the proulx book.

http://www.amazon.com/Build-Your-Own-Kitchen-Cabinets/dp/1558706763/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/104-3640665-5883112?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1194532061&sr=8-2

[mike wacker]

+1 on the Kreg System. They have several DVDs, four that I know of. They are $9.99 each and have enough different stuff in each on for it to be worth while to get each one in time. I've got the one's on Cabinetmaking, Table construction, and Trim installation.

If you get a "complete" set of Kreg clamps you can get perfect (on my scale) joints with no shifting. I have bought the K3 Master kit, a Right Angle Clamp (could use at least another) and the Large table clamp. Face frames are trivial with this system and with a very small amount of practice you can get every joint tight enough that you have great difficulty feeling it with a finger.

Disclaimer: I have no association with Kreg but I have been accused of being in lust with pocket screw technology.

Just so this is not a total thread Hi-jack, the DVD on Cabinet making from Kreg would help you decide whether you want to use this system for Cabinet making.

[frank shic]

before, you buy the DVD's, check out the free video on their web site:

http://kregtool.com/psj/index.html

even with the full complement of clamps (LFC large face clamp and RAC right angle clamp) i have yet to nail perfectly flush joints 100% of the time with the kreg jig. now that i'm using a porter cable pocket cutter which ROUTS pocket holes i'm getting much better results on face frame joints but i'm still having a little bit of joint creep on 90 degree butt joints. i'll probably buy another RAC in the near future and punch a couple of extra pockets just for improved clamping.

my current practice is to tack the case parts together with a pneumatic stapler and then follow up with confirmat screws.

henk, that's an interesting point regarding the golden ratio as applied to cabinetry. thanks for sharing! have you figured out how to apply that to a four drawer stack with perhaps a fibonacci sequence?

[Al Willits]

Probably not going to describe this well, but I had the same shifting problem with the Kreg system, what I did was mount a 2x2 (whatever size you want) on the bench, then use that to hold the base piece and vertical piece, I then used a small shim between the vertical piece and the mounted piece to push the vertical piece back, when I screwed the pieces together, it would shift, but by using the correct shim, I could get the pieces to line up...

Just went to the Marc Adams seminar and he wasn't to sold on the Kregs, he seemed to prefer dadoing and gluing...I think.
Seemed like a nice way to make a cabinet, each piece fit into the other and was almost self aliening.
I thought I'd try his method on the wife's kitchen cabinets...wish me luck..:D

Al

[Jim Becker]

Regarding the counters...consider that with reasonable construction techniques, you don't need "heft" to hold up the weight since it's spread out over a larger area.

I've used both the dado/groove/rabbit cabinet technique as well as pocket screws and glue and screwed butt joints and glue. I'd not have a problem using any of these techniques to support a stone counter top.

[Gary Keedwell]

I purchased Mark Adams VCR tapes back in the mid 90's at a WW show. His tapes helped me immensely when I did my kitchen...I bet he has some out now in DVD's:eek: ;) :)
Gary

[Al Willits]

I purchased Mark Adams VCR tapes back in the mid 90's at a WW show. His tapes helped me immensely when I did my kitchen...I bet he has some out now in DVD's:eek: ;) :)
Gary


Sure does, at least 5 or 6 of them, I picked up three at the seminar, Cabinetmaking, Furniture making part one, and Joinery, only looked at the cabinet making one so far, but it was well worth the money.

Al

[Steve Leverich]

I've not seen this mentioned in the 3 weeks I've been a member, but this method combines best of dado and pocket screws

http://www.sommerfeldtools.com/item.asp?n=dvd4&d=118&b=1

In the video he mentions using 1/4" longer screws and setting the pocket jig (not kreg) for thicker wood in order for the pocket screw to MISS the t&g so you still get full penetration into the second piece; however, I found that the Kreg jig needs different settings (than those mentioned in the video) in order to accomplish this.

Still, once you get the "tweaks" done, it's pretty much bullet proof. No pulling off line (which I'd also experienced with just pocket holes, regardless of clamps used)- nearly as fast as straight pocket holes, and the option (where holes would show) of just glue and clamp (although that would negate one of the "bennies" Kreg mentions - speed.

I'm just getting started learning about cabinet making (planning on a total gut of my house, new kitchen and all walls in different locations, etc) so I found the DVD worth the $10 - after watching it a couple times, I ordered Marc's T&G set and plan to use this method throughout the new kitchen and elsewhere.

Marc uses the "grommet in the collet" method of keeping the bit from bottoming in the collet, because all his bit sets have the shank lengths matched so you don't have to readjust depth when switching bits; but I'm going with a matched pair of Jessem tables/fences/lifts instead - I have 4 routers and 3 tables, 2 of which will stay set for T&G (one for tongue, one for groove bit) til all my carcases are done.

Then I'll set one table for dovetail and the other for pattern bit til all the drawers are done. Third table for dado grooves/drawer bottoms, and (usually) the freehand router with a trim bit.

Hope this helps... Steve

[Ed Peters]

The best way I have found, and I have built 14 kitchens this year alone, is to cut dado's for the bottom, the shelf and the stringer in each side and back. In addition, cut dado's on the sides for the back panel. Apply glue in the dado's and screw through from the outside into the components captured in the dado's. Sounds easy yes? Is easy and strong. Same for uppers and lowers with minor differences. Kreg screws have no place in cabinet construction other than assembling face frames and perhaps attaching the face frames to the cabinets.

Ed

[Lee Hingle]

Another cabinet builder here and I would agree with what Ed Peters has said. That is the easiest, quickest method, hands down. Save the pocket holes for the face frames.
Lee

[John Kendall]

Wow.. I've got some reading and watching of videos to get done here shortly. I've decided to use the face frames, since the boss wants the kitchen cabinets to match her built-in wall hutch or cabinet across the room.

It was an earlier remodelling project that I did and wished I had asked sooner on how to build face frames. It was a total nightmare, since I hadn't built face frames before. (I used biscuits).

I tore off the front and replaced the face frame and doors. Then I relined the inside with matching resawn wood to match the outside. I guess dumb luck kicked in and kept me from totally messing it up.

I'm just trying to work smarter this time. Which I hope makes life easier and faster to build the kitchen cabinets.

Thanks for all the information! :)