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Chris McDowell
11-06-2007, 12:07 AM
How's the economy doing in your area? I have had that question asked to me a lot lately. Seems like a lot of other shops and businesses are really slowing down. Probably due to kids going back to school and taxes, but I just thought it would be interesting to see how things were in everybody's neck of the woods.

I know a lot of retailers are very nervous about what kind of shopping season we will have with gas prices so high. So how about it. How are things in your part of the world?


Chris

Mike Henderson
11-06-2007, 12:11 AM
Things seem to be going pretty well here. I haven't heard any people complaining, other than the usual stuff.

Mike

Gary Keedwell
11-06-2007, 12:25 AM
I heard there was something like 160,000 new jobs nationally last month.

Jon Lanier
11-06-2007, 12:56 AM
Things seem to be going well here. Just the usual gas price thing and taxes. I don't get it though, they vote for more taxes then they are surprised that it actually comes out of their pay checks. Duh!

Joe Pelonio
11-06-2007, 8:09 AM
I'm really busy for this time of year, and much of my work is wholesale so my customers are busy. In Bellevue, where my shop was before I moved to the house, while stuck on the freeway I counted 26 of the huge construction cranes where new high rise buildings are going up. On the way home in Redmond along the freeway there were 5-6 more at Microsoft where they are adding more buildings. In the paper the other day it said the jobless rate was up slightly to 3.8%, historically still very low and down from a year ago.

Jeffrey Makiel
11-06-2007, 8:39 AM
Here in New Jersey, things continue to get more difficult. Realty signs on the front lawn are probably at an all time high. And the homes seem to stay on the market for a very long period of time now. We are beginning to see housing prices drop from their previous overpriced asking.

New Jersey news recently stated that 75,000 families left the state last year. I've also witnessed colleagues at my workplace accept new jobs in other states. One of their reasons for leaving is the decaying quality of life in New Jersey and the cost of living which out paces most other areas of the US.

The interesting part is that there is no lack of expensive vehicles on the road and high priced neighborhoods.

-Jeff :)

Kyle Kraft
11-06-2007, 8:48 AM
Here in the economic armpit of the nation (Michigan) things are pretty bad. Houses for sale everywhere, if you can find a buyer you pretty much have to give your house away, news of more manufacturers closing, depressed wages for the people who are staying, an awesome state budget crisis, schools, local governments et al crying for more tax revenue, the list goes on and on.

But wait, "...in five years, you'll be blown away...."

David G Baker
11-06-2007, 9:33 AM
Here in the economic armpit of the nation (Michigan) things are pretty bad. Houses for sale everywhere, if you can find a buyer you pretty much have to give your house away, news of more manufacturers closing, depressed wages for the people who are staying, an awesome state budget crisis, schools, local governments et al crying for more tax revenue, the list goes on and on.

But wait, "...in five years, you'll be blown away...."
Kyle,
On waiting 5 years here in Michigan, I will be that last one out and promise to turn out the lights when I do.
The 160,000 new jobs created nation wide were the folks that left Michigan and got a new job with a big raise in pay in the fast food industry.
I keep telling my California friends and family that are close to retirement age to sell their $500,000 2 bedroom homes and move to Michigan where they can buy a great house along with 40 acres for half that price, bank the balance and live like they once wanted to while in California. The wimps are afraid of the snow and cold.
Now if the tax increases don't drive me out I will stay because I love it here.

Gary Keedwell
11-06-2007, 10:02 AM
Perception. Perception. Perception. The main street media still controls it. Please bear with me...this is not a political statement. If you listen to the news drone on day in and day out about nothing good about the economy....your subconscious mind will say that the economy is bad.
You never hear that over 6 million jobs have been created over the last few years or that certain manufacturers are making record breaking profits. It is too bad that the main stream media has an agenda because alot of americans are suffering.
LOML and I were going to put our home on the market last year because we found a great place to retire to. The place that we want to retire to won't lower their price because it is brand new and they decided to ride the wave until market gets moving again. WE might be able to sell our house but will have to lower price substantially.

XXX

Gary

Anthony Anderson
11-06-2007, 10:22 AM
We hear the numbers about how many "new jobs" that were created, but very little truth as to what sector those jobs were created in, or a salary range. It should be publicized, without having to dig for it, what sector the workers moved from, and the sector they move into. Also should be included is the wage/salary at previous sector employment compared to new employment or jobs created. "Jobs created" really tells us little about the state of our economy, and leads to false belief about the improvement of the economy. The folks who live in the depressed areas with massive job/employment loss, know the reality to come for much of the nation. When the Pound outvalues the Dollar 2:1, the Euro 1.6:1 (I believe that is correct last I heard) and the Canadian Dollar 1:1, That's right, the Canadian Dollar is on par with the American Dollar. When the value of our currency is dropping like a rock, relative to other the other major currencies, the problems for our great nation are on the horizon. Our legislators, and the Fed Reserve, keep trying to avoid a recession by adjusting rates, instead of allowing the economy to cycle itself through a recession. Instead our government keeps printing money, pouring it into affairs and dolling it out to other countries, as if there is unlimited supply. In the meantime, as a result of our over printing of the dollar, and our weakening economy, the value of our currency tanks, and prolongs the inevitable. We are in for a really bad recession. I believe in the five to seven year range. The stock market is extremely overinflated, and is not allowed to correct itself, because the Reserve keeps interferring, IOW they keep inflating the balloon. Could you imagine what would happen to the economy, in regards to the housing market, right now, if a recession hit. The housing market would approach collapse, as many people cannot afford the house they are living in. Years of incredibly low home interest rates have fueled this idea that people can afford a huge/high dollar home. But these homes are really way out of their budget. When everything hits the fan, watch out. It is going to be a really interesting juggling act. Okay, I'm done. Bill



Kyle,
On waiting 5 years here in Michigan, I will be that last one out and promise to turn out the lights when I do.
The 160,000 new jobs created nation wide were the folks that left Michigan and got a new job with a big raise in pay in the fast food industry.

Eddie Watkins
11-06-2007, 10:38 AM
Our economy seems about the same which is fairly good. I just sold a house I had remodeled and sold it in less than 30 days.
I think Gary K has a valid point about the news media influencing us more than we should allow. I was watching one of the 7x24 news channels a few weeks ago and the were talking about the market "crash". I checked the stock market and it had dropped a little over 1%. Hardly what I would consider a crash. With the tendency/need to out report each other, it seems that they are trying to sensationalize the news more to keep us watching and grab a larger share of the market.

Eddie

Anthony Anderson
11-06-2007, 10:44 AM
I definately agree with this one. Filter what you hear from the media. I am glad they are not running the country. The media significantly affects oil prices, for example. A person should rarely listen to a media financial analyst without doing their own homework, and never buy/sell based on TV analysts alone.




With the tendency/need to out report each other, it seems that they are trying to sensationalize the news more to keep us watching and grab a larger share of the market.

Eddie

Gary Keedwell
11-06-2007, 11:05 AM
Our economy seems about the same which is fairly good. I just sold a house I had remodeled and sold it in less than 30 days.
I think Gary K has a valid point about the news media influencing us more than we should allow. I was watching one of the 7x24 news channels a few weeks ago and the were talking about the market "crash". I checked the stock market and it had dropped a little over 1%. Hardly what I would consider a crash. With the tendency/need to out report each other, it seems that they are trying to sensationalize the news more to keep us watching and grab a larger share of the market.

Eddie
LOL I heard that headline while driving home that day about the "crash". I was very relieved when I went to my account online and my IRA's looked fairly healthy to me.;)
Gary

Bob Childress
11-06-2007, 11:08 AM
As those of us who lived through the 1970's can remember, inflation is the fiercest enemy of all. Anything the Fed can do to stem inflation is okay by me. Oil prices will be whatever they will be. We'll have to adjust.

The economy around here is quite good, with new manufacturing jobs being created as well as engineering R&D type jobs.

The real estate market is slow, which I attribute to the media frenzy over the sub-prime loans scaring people for reasons they do not understand. Sub-prime only affects a small (very small) percentage of the market. Housing prices here have not risen nearly as fast as elsewhere, so there is little chance of a big collapse. :)

Gary Keedwell
11-06-2007, 11:19 AM
As those of us who lived through the 1970's can remember, inflation is the fiercest enemy of all. Anything the Fed can do to stem inflation is okay by me. Oil prices will be whatever they will be. We'll have to adjust.

The economy around here is quite good, with new manufacturing jobs being created as well as engineering R&D type jobs.

The real estate market is slow, which I attribute to the media frenzy over the sub-prime loans scaring people for reasons they do not understand. Sub-prime only affects a small (very small) percentage of the market. Housing prices here have not risen nearly as fast as elsewhere, so there is little chance of a big collapse. :)
Hey Bob....Do you still have your WIN button? ( whip inflation now). Yea, looking back in time, the 70's were no doubt the worst years of my life.
when I reflect back on my life, the mid-80's have to be my greatest.
Gary

John Shuk
11-06-2007, 11:36 AM
I guess it depends on what you do.
I know that here in NY over the past 7 years my property and school taxes have very nearly doubled. They were a stretch when I bought my house. Gas is way up, heating oil is way up, sales tax is up. Co-pay goes up yearly. There is alot to complain about.
I get by but it is frustrating that there is no end in sight.

Jeffrey Makiel
11-06-2007, 11:41 AM
It is important to understand that most major news media are now owned by large entertainment corporations. Long gone are the days of Walter Cronkite's bland but factual reporting. Sensationalism and speculation have polluted journalism for sure.

However, I disagree that the media is the cause of economic issues in my area, whole or in part. Taxes, housing and healthcare are now crushing the middle class. I fail to see how the media would cause this.

However, I would say the loss of our manufacturing base, poor performance within our education system, the enormous trade deficit, unenforced imigration policy, soft and predatory lending practices, over manipulation of the lending rate, and out sourcing of jobs are some of the causes that come to my mind.

I'm sure the folks in Michigan can probably pick a few causes from the list above also. And I suspect it doesn't end there either.

OK...now I'm depressed. Perhaps I should watch the Animal Planet Channel. Those Mirkats crack me up. :)

-Jeff :(

Gary Keedwell
11-06-2007, 12:04 PM
It is important to understand that most major news media are now owned by large entertainment corporations. Long gone are the days of Walter Cronkite's bland but factual reporting. Sensationalism and speculation have polluted journalism for sure.

However, I disagree that the media is the cause of economic issues in my area, whole or in part. Taxes, housing and healthcare are now crushing the middle class. I fail to see how the media would cause this.


I'm sure the folks in Michigan can probably pick a few causes from the list above also. And I suspect it doesn't end there either.

OK...now I'm depressed. Perhaps I should watch the Animal Planet Channel. Those Mirkats crack me up. :)

-Jeff :(
"
However, I would say the loss of our manufacturing base, poor performance within our education system, the enormous trade deficit, unenforced imigration policy, soft and predatory lending practices, over manipulation of the lending rate, and out sourcing of jobs are some of the causes that come to my mind."Most of those woes have been in progress for over ten years. Manufacturing and outsourcing is now a fact of economic reality. Our "public" education system has been on a downward spiral for over 40 years.
Like mentioned above, I'm more worried about our tax money being spent frivolously. No matter how important the bills being signed into law, pork spending is being attatched to it without any publicity. We keep on spending and spending and alot of it is to buy votes. We don't have the money so we keep on printing money which becomes less valuable.
When are we going to learn that the USA cannot support the whole planet??????
Gary

Bob Childress
11-06-2007, 12:11 PM
When are we going to learn that the USA cannot support the whole planet??????
Gary

Unfortunately, sooner rather than later. :( And when we can't any longer, many of our alleged "friends" will turn on us like jackals.

David Weaver
11-06-2007, 12:24 PM
Chugging along here in Western PA. Things seem to be pretty good. There are some sectors that are weak, but there are others that are plenty strong, too.

If the dollar keeps getting weaker, we may actually start producing things here again.

Who'd have thought?

Gary Keedwell
11-06-2007, 12:34 PM
Unfortunately, sooner rather than later. :( And when we can't any longer, many of our alleged "friends" will turn on us like jackals.
Old soldiers dying in poverty while immigrants come to this country and collect monthly governments checks larger then social security checks:o
We are definitely stretched to the max. We have to turn in-wards if we are to survive as a Nation. IMNSHO
Gary

John Shuk
11-06-2007, 12:44 PM
It is important to understand that most major news media are now owned by large entertainment corporations. Long gone are the days of Walter Cronkite's bland but factual reporting. Sensationalism and speculation have polluted journalism for sure.

However, I disagree that the media is the cause of economic issues in my area, whole or in part. Taxes, housing and healthcare are now crushing the middle class. I fail to see how the media would cause this.

However, I would say the loss of our manufacturing base, poor performance within our education system, the enormous trade deficit, unenforced imigration policy, soft and predatory lending practices, over manipulation of the lending rate, and out sourcing of jobs are some of the causes that come to my mind.

I'm sure the folks in Michigan can probably pick a few causes from the list above also. And I suspect it doesn't end there either.

OK...now I'm depressed. Perhaps I should watch the Animal Planet Channel. Those Mirkats crack me up. :)

-Jeff :(
I'm right there with you Jeff.
Like I said I get by. I have made some very good investments. I just wish that the net to my family and I were greater.
This is probably not a good thread.
I think that the reason for the "NO POLITICS" rules here is the way threads like this make me feel.

Jeffrey Makiel
11-06-2007, 12:45 PM
If the dollar keeps getting weaker, we may actually start producing things here again.

I hope so...but I doubt it. The required work ethic and physical skills to produce a product may no longer be there. Sawmill Creek folks excluded, of coarse. :)

-Jeff :)

Greg Peterson
11-06-2007, 12:59 PM
Gary -

French Revolution (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/28/opinion/28furstenberg.html)


"Soon after the storming of the Bastille, pro-Revolutionary elements came together to form an association that would become known as the Jacobin Club, an umbrella group of politicians, journalists and citizens dedicated to advancing the principles of the Revolution.

The Jacobins shared a defining ideological feature. They divided the world between pro- and anti-Revolutionaries — the defenders of liberty versus its enemies. The French Revolution, as they understood it, was the great event that would determine whether liberty was to prevail on the planet or whether the world would fall back into tyranny and despotism.
The stakes could not be higher, and on these matters there could be no nuance or hesitation. One was either for the Revolution or for tyranny.
By 1792, France was confronting the hostility of neighboring countries, debating how to react. The Jacobins were divided. On one side stood the journalist and political leader Jacques-Pierre Brissot de Warville, who argued for war.

Brissot understood the war as preventive — “une guerre offensive,” he called it — to defeat the despotic powers of Europe before they could organize their counter-Revolutionary strike. It would not be a war of conquest, as Brissot saw it, but a war “between liberty and tyranny.”
Pro-war Jacobins believed theirs was a mission not for a single nation or even for a single continent. It was, in Brissot’s words, “a crusade for universal liberty.”

Brissot’s opponents were skeptical. “No one likes armed missionaries,” declared Robespierre, with words as apt then as they remain today. Not long after the invasion of Austria, the military tide turned quickly against France.

The United States, France’s “sister republic,” refused to enter the war on France’s side. It was an infuriating show of ingratitude, as the French saw it, coming from a fledgling nation they had magnanimously saved from foreign occupation in a previous war."

Point is, international relations are not formed in a vacuum.

Dennis Peacock
11-06-2007, 1:25 PM
OK....the discussion here has greatly departed from the OP's original question.

Let's drop the history, politics, and federal parties and let's get back to "economy"....even though I don't see how this can really be openly discussed without it going political. :confused:

This thread is subject to be removed.

Phil Sanders
11-06-2007, 1:41 PM
Just Asking:

Has anyone ever heard any news report that drew a chart that showed the stages of the economy and the age of the baby boomers?

1970's - Baby boomers en mass join the work force, but starting jobs available are overwhelmed by volume of those seeking jobs.

1980's- Most baby boomers are now out of college and employed. Spending on young people stuff: drugs, booze, entertainment, and trying to attract sex partners.

1990's - Baby boomers buying homes, appliances for homes, baby furniture, cars, starting to set money aside for college and old age.

2000's - Baby boomers starting to face age discrimination, and changing markets as technology in work place changes. College cost for next generation deplete any savings and rainy day money.

Late 2000's - Age related medical problem start to effect employable status of workers seeking new jobs. Knees, hips, feet and heart problems make the cost of medical insurance for employee too expensive.

Just seem like there should be a matching graphs somehow.

Phil

Gary Keedwell
11-06-2007, 2:01 PM
Just Asking:

Has anyone ever heard any news report that drew a chart that showed the stages of the economy and the age of the baby boomers?

1970's - Baby boomers en mass join the work force, but starting jobs available are overwhelmed by volume of those seeking jobs.

1980's- Most baby boomers are now out of college and employed. Spending on young people stuff: drugs, booze, entertainment, and trying to attract sex partners.

1990's - Baby boomers buying homes, appliances for homes, baby furniture, cars, starting to set money aside for college and old age.

2000's - Baby boomers starting to face age discrimination, and changing markets as technology in work place changes. College cost for next generation deplete any savings and rainy day money.

Late 2000's - Age related medical problem start to effect employable status of workers seeking new jobs. Knees, hips, feet and heart problems make the cost of medical insurance for employee too expensive.

Just seem like there should be a matching graphs somehow.

Phil
Very interesting Phil but the 70's analogy may need a little tweaking. With the oil embargo and interest rates around 20% you can't blame the boomers for all of the 70's woes. And don't forget, you had alot of boomers fighting a war, running from a war (hello Canada) and staying in college to avoid the war, so job scarcity was not entirly boomer's fault.
Gary

Phil Sanders
11-06-2007, 2:20 PM
...but the 70's analogy may need a little tweaking. With the oil embargo and interest rates around 20% you can't blame the boomers for all of the 70's woes....
You are correct. And don't forget the recession of 1982, Oil bust and the Saving-and-loan crash mid to late '80s, the Junk Bond episode (Mid '90's ?), Rust-belt recession after NAFTA passage in mid '90s, and many others.

But still... a such a graph as I mentioned might be at least be at least mentioned on a CNN yackty yack with-out claiming any direct finger-pointing cause-and-effect relationship.

Phil

Greg Peterson
11-06-2007, 2:50 PM
As for the economy, like everyone else here, I can only offer anecdotal evidence. Statistics can be produced to support any argument.

Locally, in the circles I travel in, things are fine. Gas is the one wildcard in our budget, and a wide berth is granted to that budget item.

Short term, I am not particularly concerned about the local, regional or national economy.

Long term, I don't know enough about economic theory to predict where the economy at any level (local, regional, national, international) will be six months from now. So I just go about my business, hope for the best but expect and be prepared for the worst.

Matt Meiser
11-06-2007, 2:52 PM
Long term, I don't know enough about economic theory to predict where the economy at any level (local, regional, national, international) will be six months from now.

I think if there were as many people who actually could as there are people who think they can, there would be a lot more rich people!

Greg Peterson
11-06-2007, 3:02 PM
"I think if there were as many people who actually could as there are people who think they can, there would be a lot more rich people!"

Actually, I don't know if that would be true. Wealth can not be generated, it can only be transferred. So, with a finite amount of wealth available, but practically limitless means of transferring wealth, there will always be a limited number of persons in possession of sums large enough to consider these persons wealthy.

If everyone had $100 million dollars, we'd all be middle class and a loaf of bread would cost $100,000.

But the greater point I think you are making is true. Lot's of 'experts' out there, but in the final analysis, there will always remain a high degree of chance.

Gary Keedwell
11-06-2007, 3:02 PM
You are correct. And don't forget the recession of 1982, Oil bust and the Saving-and-loan crash mid to late '80s, the Junk Bond episode (Mid '90's ?), Rust-belt recession after NAFTA passage in mid '90s, and many others.

But still... a such a graph as I mentioned might be at least be at least mentioned on a CNN yackty yack with-out claiming any direct finger-pointing cause-and-effect relationship.

Phil
You know something, Phil, there is so much print and TV stations out there that I'll bet it has come up more then a few times. Madison Avenue has catered to the boomers since the late 40's. Remember the clearisol commercials for our acne in the 60's. Well, it's been replaced by the Cholesterol drugs and Viagra. LOL. Every where I go there's a new Walgreen drug store opening.
Wait to the you know what hits the fan when the baby boomers retire. Where in Gods name is all the money going to come from for social security taxes. Nobody, especially politicians, want to talk about it. Everybody wanted President Bush to talk about it because he is in 2nd term and the votes won't matter. Well, he brought it up... but the talks didn't last long. It is estimated that it will take 2 people to support one person on SS.
What's going to happen to the economy then???????????????
Gary

Greg Peterson
11-06-2007, 3:21 PM
Nevermind.

glenn bradley
11-06-2007, 3:34 PM
I definitely agree with this one. Filter what you hear from the media. I am glad they are not running the country. The media significantly affects oil prices, for example. A person should rarely listen to a media financial analyst without doing their own homework, and never buy/sell based on TV analysts alone.


If the media is right about the economy, they must be right about everything else . . . I better not leave my house, I might get shot in a drive-by. I better not go to work, I'll never get there anyway because of all the traffic and the slow motion police pursuits, etc, etc. :confused:

There are a large number of homes for sale that are not moving. This is no surprise. These are the unfortunate folks who got talked into or wanted to believe they could buy a $500,000 home for no money down and only $800 a month.

Their variable rate varied, gas went up and the value of their homes did not increase as planned. It is a very sad thing to know that so many folks have had to give up their new homes. The pattern seems to be that the house is suddenly empty, there's a 'for rent' in front of it for a few months and then the bank takes it.

If I had the cash to buy the half dozen or so houses I could hit from my front yard with a 9 iron, they would probably return a handsome profit in a few years. Just dreaming . . . I have enough to keep my wallet sore just dealing with my own home. :D

Steve Clardy
11-06-2007, 3:43 PM
My work hasn't slowed. I have :o :rolleyes: :D


I'm not backlogged for three months like I have been for several years, but work is still out there. I have plenty to do.

Gary Keedwell
11-06-2007, 3:45 PM
"I think if there were as many people who actually could as there are people who think they can, there would be a lot more rich people!"

Actually, I don't know if that would be true. Wealth can not be generated, it can only be transferred. So, with a finite amount of wealth available, but practically limitless means of transferring wealth, there will always be a limited number of persons in possession of sums large enough to consider these persons wealthy.

If everyone had $100 million dollars, we'd all be middle class and a loaf of bread would cost $100,000.

But the greater point I think you are making is true. Lot's of 'experts' out there, but in the final analysis, there will always remain a high degree of chance.
We have been down this path before about wealth cannot be generated but only transferred, and it was beat down by many examples . If Bill Gates didn't generate all that wealth from nothing, then there wouldn't be all these millionaires all over the place spending money to keep the economy heated. There are more self made Billionaires on Forbes list then people who got it by inheriting it.

Capitalism is not perfect, just like democracy is not perfect....but is has proven to be better then the alternatives.
Gary

Greg Cole
11-06-2007, 4:14 PM
In regards to the pending housing disaster, I don't point my finger at anyone other than the person putting ink on the contract for a house that's listed at 50% more that it's really worth... and signing the 5 year ARM or one of these other mortgage schemes. Then run out and buy 2 new cars since you are paying such a low mortgage..... etc etc etc. The new American way of have now & pay later.
The FED gets "forced" to do something to postpone the pending disaster (or potential pending disaster, depends on your interpetations or who ya listen to aka the media)..... based off precedents set the Federal Gov't is there to bail you out whan you can't bail yourself out. It certainly can't be the citizens fault they put themselves in that position, so why should that citizen be on the hook for getting out of it?
I don't even want to talk about the strength of the dollar, I buy machinery and parts from European vendors for a living (Eruo, Danish Kroner, Swedish Kroner, British Pounds and Aussie Dollars) and I take a proverbial bath every time I write a purchase order & wire off funds. :mad: What was once easy money for me with a strong dollar is gone with the 8 track....
But if we weren't a "walmartized" country that makes less & less every year, we'd be exporting goods out the old wazoo, but you can't export things from what's all but a service based economy so well....

More than nuff said.

Greg

Gary Keedwell
11-06-2007, 4:28 PM
Greg...I don't know how it effects the economy but I often wondered about the "got to have it now" generation. I don't want to sound like an old fogey, but LOML and I started out broke (we were both divorced) in our 30's. We lived 5 years in an apartment (1984-1989). She went to college and I worked 2nd shift for more money. We were almost in our 40's before we felt comfortable enough, financially, to put money down for a house. We made real money in the economy to put into the house. The young people, (not all of them) do not want to work in the economy to save for a house. They want to be given a house for nothing and then complain that they may lose it.
That being said, I don't know much about how an economy prospers, but it seems that people owe more then they own and that can't be good.
Gary

Greg Cole
11-06-2007, 4:54 PM
Gary,
My grandfather was a miserable xxxx in general. One thing I learned from his was from hearing a story alot.... when he was drinking (thats when he was miserable, which was just about all the time)
He and Gram used to WALK a couple miles (yes each way) to a car dealership on Friday nights. They would sit in the car they were saving $ to buy and pretend they were out on a real date, movie, parking... whatever they did in the 30's. This went on for the better part of a year until he had the $ to pay for the car 100%.
As a kid you think, WOW what the hell was wrong with them? Ya get a few years older and have a couple of debt notes... you understand perfectly. If you can't pay cash for it, you don't need it bad enough.
I was fortunate to get into a house at age 26, but other than that note I have 8 months to pay on my wifes car and that is IT. Hence my ability to have a hobby like being a Creeker :D or at least someone who like WW'ing tools.

Greg

Dan Muller
11-06-2007, 7:58 PM
Kyle,
On waiting 5 years here in Michigan, I will be that last one out and promise to turn out the lights when I do.


Dunno if I'll be here that long, but I can't complain too loud since my own job seems pretty secure -- it's not directly related to manufacturing. But for a lot of people in Michigan things certainly are tough right now, and that's not just media hype.

I get pretty annoyed whenever I see car commercials. So little innovation actually coming out of the domestic car companies, just a lot of talk about what they plan on offering some day. E.g. I might be in the market for a new car someday soon, and am considering the virtues of a diesel commuter vehicle. (Now that we have clean diesel fuel available, this seems like a nearly uncontroversially eco-friendly and economical choice.) But the only company selling any in the U.S. that I know of is Volkswagen.

Brady Watson
11-07-2007, 4:39 PM
I've heard others complain of business slowing down in various places in the country, but I am not so sure that it can be boiled down to geographic region alone. I am currently busier than I have ever been, with 1 CNC cutting 24hrs a day for the past 2 weeks (video baby monitor in use as I do try to catch some sleep once in a while!) and 1 laser scanner running on the same schedule as well. If this keeps up, I'll be buying 2 more machines...

I also agree that perception and 'stories' pushed on the collective consciousness are part of the doom and gloom outlook of things slowing down. While not many of my customers are local, the ones that are keep beating my door down with work they gotta have yesterday.

I personally don't watch the news, read the papers or any other 'empire approved' mass media, if for no other reason than I can't do anything about all the bad news they report. I try to take care of my own back yard, and do the right thing in my own world. That being said, I love what I do, have my own vision, and in keeping with the 'Think and Grow Rich' flavor, I choose to create an abundance of wealth with my own talents, and not worry about what other people are doing...I've personally found more power and positive results by remembering that we humans are infinite beings & lack doesn't enter into the equation. Sounds dillusional, I know...but lemme tell ya, things are poppin' :)

-B

Joe Pelonio
11-07-2007, 4:51 PM
E.g. I might be in the market for a new car someday soon, and am considering the virtues of a diesel commuter vehicle. (Now that we have clean diesel fuel available, this seems like a nearly uncontroversially eco-friendly and economical choice.) But the only company selling any in the U.S. that I know of is Volkswagen.
Dan, how's the mileage on those? I just filled up my (gas) truck for $3.22 but noticed that diesel at the same station was $3.80.

Gary Keedwell
11-07-2007, 8:17 PM
It could just be my imagination or maybe just a lull before the storm (Christmas shoping) but the malls seem a little dead lately. Alot of people get nervous when the stock market is jumping around like it is. By the way.....it took another hit today:o
Gary

Dennis Peacock
11-07-2007, 9:19 PM
My work hasn't slowed. I have :o :rolleyes: :D


Ouch!!!!! I resemble that remark. :o

Stephen Beckham
11-08-2007, 9:31 AM
Well, my buddy and I drove from Kentucky to North Carolina and back to pick up and drop off and pickup Ebay stuff. With detours and two main routes travelled, we kept commenting that it's incredible that all these new Churches, Malls, Shopping Centers, Housing areas (list goes on) were in some stage of the process of being built.

I guess that's just the over privileged that has money, or maybe, just maybe - we are doing okay on the economy level nationally. Of course areas are going to have hard times - we all knew (should have known) that the housing bubble was equivalent to .COM bubble. Hang on, keep you feet and hands in side the ride - may all those having troubles find the way to make it through...

Okay - so to answer the question - here in small town Kentucky, there are lots of houses for sale, the gas this morning is $3.10 per gallon and I've got a stack of stuff to etch. Mike Null said it best - most of our retail stores are a Service type business. I'll add to that - that we are a luxury in most cases... Very few has to have this service, most get it because they want it. I feel blessed that they still consider my prices are economical enough to keep my counters stacked...

Dan Muller
11-08-2007, 9:31 AM
Dan, how's the mileage on those? I just filled up my (gas) truck for $3.22 but noticed that diesel at the same station was $3.80.

My understanding is that the miles-per-gallon figure for such cars is much higher. A friend who knows much more about cars offered me these links for more information: http://www.tdiclub.com/, http://forums.tdiclub.com/forumdisplay.php?f=24 He also offered the opinion that some very small and light gasoline commuter cars will have even better mileage, but that's not an apples-to-apples comparison, and he thinks it's likely that diesels will have better longevity (which also matches what I've heard about diesel engines).

Over the past year around here, as gas prices bounced around like crazy, I have noticed per-gallon diesel prices both much lower and much higher than gasoline, at various times. I believe that gasoline prices are more affected by refinery capacity problems than diesel prices are. Both are affected by oil supply and speculator shenanigans, of course.

Roger Newby
11-08-2007, 10:43 AM
The company I worked for for 25 years closed its doors on October 9th. 125 people in the street. This is a major problem in small communities such as mine. Fortunately, the company has been purchased and will reopen soon, but many very talented and experienced people couldn't hang on and went elsewhere. I'm only 5 years from retiring (I hope) and feel lucky to be a survivor.

Greg Muller
11-08-2007, 10:55 AM
Right now here in KC, as with much of the nation, most of the economy is doing well, except for the home building industry. My Father-in-law builds custom homes and has only had one contract in the last 13 months. it was a biggie, so they are okay, but lots of his contractors are dropping like flies. I know a few cabinet makers that have had to get other jobs until the market improves but some are selling off their tools because they just can't wait it out any longer.

Ken Fitzgerald
11-08-2007, 11:24 AM
That's one of the things I like about living a small town/city. Our economy is hooked primarily to a couple of businesses, agriculture and forestry industries but it's pretty bullet proof. Our property values and the local economy don't skyrocket ....it just plods along on it's own.

I have a very conservative investment stratedgy. I'm not making a killing but when the market took a tumble after 9/11 I did't take a beating either. I have stocks, bonds.....I don't see huge swings just gradual upwards climbing.

I've quit listening to the major cable "news" channels. They have become too much of politically oriented rumor mills.....kinda like radio wave "Enquirers". ;)

Jeffrey Makiel
11-08-2007, 12:23 PM
Ken,
Having stable property values are much better than the crazy swinging property values in my area of the northeast.

When property values are high, the cost of living increases much faster for everybody even though one may have bought a home many years ago at a lower price. It drives up insurances, taxes and the general wage. And once these go up, they never come down.

When home values drop, new home owners take a beating with mortgages being much higher than their home's value. If you don't have to move or don't want to move, this may not be a major issue. But, many jobs these days require families to relocate, or perhaps leave due to job loss or decaying community. As a minimum, it discourages folks from making betterments to their home....the money pit syndrome.

-Jeff :)

Randy Denby
11-08-2007, 5:47 PM
Oh me.....why did I read this thread? I am so depressed...:o