New decking - pocket hole?

[Chris Curry]

I am going to try to get a new deck up before winter. The old KD western cedar got too bad. I will also have to replace the 2X10 PT joists and am considering laying underneith with my pocket hole jig and screwing the new deck boards (2X6?) from below instead of goining down through the top. Am I being rediculus? :confused: I think it would work well and over time the water/ice etc would rot around the screw heads. What say you?
Thanks,
Chris

[alex grams]

I had used a hidden under deck system to secure decking on my parent's deck, and it worked great. Granted, it involved a lot of crawling on my back and drilling up from the bottom, but it turned out great, and no holes in the top to let water work its way into the wood.

Go here:

http://www.grabberman.com/Deckmaster/

They worked great

[frank shic]

chris, on 2x material, you don't even need the jig. if you want to pre-drill, just start the drill as you normally would boring vertically into the face of the board approximately 1" away from the edge and then angle it sharply after the drill bit engages approximately 1/4" of the wood.

i toe-screwed most of the joints on my last deck project without even pre-drilling since no ones was going to see the bottom of my deck anyways. on the deck table that i'm currently finishing up on, i pocket-screwed to hide the heads of the screws.

BTW alex, i also used the deckmaster hidden fastening system found that attaching them to the joists by screwing through EVERY OTHER hole was pretty tedious but the results were worth all the trouble. i didn't crawl under the deck, i just angled the impact driver upwards when i reached underneath. i found that good knee pads were a necessity!

[Dave Falkenstein]

I agree with Alex and Frank. Use the Deckmaster bracket system. It will cost some money for the bracket kit, but the results are excellent. I have built several decks using Deckmaster, and they have held up exceptionally well. My own deck was rebuilt with Deckmaster brackets and new redwood decking about 5 or 6 years ago, and I have not had to retighten a single screw.

[Jim Becker]

I wouldn't do the pocket screw thing for a deck...way too labor intensive when there are very nice hidden fastener systems available that are faster and easier to use. EBTY, for example, can be used with biscuit slots or a groove cut down the entire side of the deck boards. In fact, Ipe deck boards are available pre-grooved to even avoid the labor of cutting them yourself. Fast and easy and you only need to pre-drill for a very few fasteners at the very edges.

[frank shic]

EBTY is even more labor intensive than deckmaster although it'll justify buying a biscuit joiner to SWMBO!

[Dave Falkenstein]

EBTY is even more labor intensive than deckmaster although it'll justify buying a biscuit joiner to SWMBO!

Regarding the labor intense issue - I add about $3 per square foot to the price of a deck when I use Deckmaster brackets. That $3 covers the bracket kits (which include screws) and the added labor to install the brackets onto the joists. If a deck is especially close to the ground, and therefore hard to screw the decking onto the brackets, I'll add a little more for that added labor. The resulting deck, with no screw holes in the decking, is remarkably better looking, and holds up much better, since water cannot penetrate into the wood through the screw holes. The reduced maintenance cost offsets the added Deckmaster cost in the first few years.

[jud dinsmore]

chris,

i would search for some more feedback on the deckmaster. i've heard mixes reviews from some other forums and you should consider the bad along with the good. the biggest negative i can remember is that the system won't hold the deck boards tight enough to the joist to prevent squeaks. one remedy is to add exterior grade subfloor adheasive to the tops of your joists. i've done this before (not with deckmaster but face nailed with 15ga stainless) and would suggest letting your deck frame dry out a little (about a week would do) to give the glue a better chance of adhearing. also, concerning the utterly poor state of pressure treated lumber, will the deck be in direct sunlight for a long portion of the day? i just had to replace a pressure treated walk-out porch because the sun cooked the boards. some of them looked like bacon. just something to consider. while ipe and composite decks are more expensive their quality is far superior (use not to be able to say that about composites but they've come a long way).

good luck,

jud

[Lee Schierer]

I agree with the biscuit type fastener systems for decks (besides you get an excuse to buy a tool you can use later). I used the Tiger Claw system for my front deck. The "pound the fastener into the board" method that Tiger claw uses didn't work as well with the composite decking on longer boards as it might with treated lumber, but I don't have a single screw or screw hole showing on my entire front deck.

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~us71na/deck1.jpg

[Wes Billups]

Lee, how did you go about attaching the decking with the first and last rows of boards? I'm getting ready to replace my decking this weekend and have purchased all the pieces but can't decide how to start and finish without screwing through the tops on the outside edges.

Thanks,
Wes Billups


I used the Tiger Claw system for my front deck. The "pound the fastener into the board" method that Tiger claw uses didn't work as well with the composite decking on longer boards as it might with treated lumber, but I don't have a single screw or screw hole showing on my entire front deck.

[Ben Grunow]

For what its worth, I used the EBTY system and was not impressed. We opted for making the biscuit holes on the job which was a big (my) mistake and really slowed us down. We used 1x4 Ipe and when done it really looked great but there is a definite squeak to the whole thing as the boards are not really attached in the traditional sense and the buscuits are plastic. The other problem is that there is little to be done about warped boards. Like installing flooring, the starter board is the key, but if you have a couple of curved boards, prepare to pry until your eyes fall out to keep things straight.

I have seen some of the angles for screwing up through and I think any system that allows the wood to be nailed or screwed down or up is the way to go.

[frank shic]

wes, on the first and last boards, you usually have to screw them down through the face and plug them afterwards.

[Eric Wong]

I'm finishing up a deck using the FastenMaster IQ hidden system. Very easy to install, from above the deck, but also has the squeaking problem in a few spots (there were only 6 or 7 squeaky spots on a 550 sqft deck). Not a big deal, since I've never seen a deck that was completely squeak and creak free (even my kitchen floor creaks more than my deck), but a little disappointing. I've found that I can crawl under the deck and shim the squeaky spots and stop the squeaks.

Unfortunately, there is a concrete pad under part of the deck that prevents me from getting to some of the squeaky spots. So I'm toying with the idea of counterboring and face screwing down the squeaks, then plugging the holes using plugs made from left over material. Would this work in Trex Brasilia?

Also, I'm concerned about more squeaks developing over time as the deck settles and goes through several freeze/thaw cycles.

[Jeff Heil]

For what its worth, I used the EBTY system and was not impressed. We opted for making the biscuit holes on the job which was a big (my) mistake and really slowed us down. We used 1x4 Ipe and when done it really looked great but there is a definite squeak to the whole thing as the boards are not really attached in the traditional sense and the buscuits are plastic. The other problem is that there is little to be done about warped boards. Like installing flooring, the starter board is the key, but if you have a couple of curved boards, prepare to pry until your eyes fall out to keep things straight.

I have seen some of the angles for screwing up through and I think any system that allows the wood to be nailed or screwed down or up is the way to go.

I did my cedar deck three years ago with the EBTY system. I like the fastner-free look, but would explore other options before using this system again. I considered ripping a kerf the length of the boards, but opted to use my biscuit jointer instead and found it a slow process. I don't think the EBTY fastners held the boards down well enough to prevent several from cupping and twisting. The cedar was prefinished on both sides prior to installation and I also used a dab of construction adhesive in the center of each board as well to allow the board to expand but to help hold it down.

I agree with Ben and saw a deck done with an angle bracket undermount system that I would try before the EBTY system again. My deck is between 14" and 36" off the ground and acess from below is limited. I would consider a right angle drill if I went with an undermount system on a deck close to the ground.

my 2 cents.

[Lee Schierer]

Lee, how did you go about attaching the decking with the first and last rows of boards? I'm getting ready to replace my decking this weekend and have purchased all the pieces but can't decide how to start and finish without screwing through the tops on the outside edges.

Thanks,
Wes Billups

Since the first board is at the front edge of my deck and I didn't want any screws showing or partial width boards at the front, I started at the front edge as you see it in the photo and worked toward the corner. I found galvanized L shaped clips at HD and attached them to the inside of the front board that made the frame and then ran screws up into the bottom of the first board across the front. I worked back into the corner and the very last piece has tiger claw clips on one side and a single stainless screw down through the piece from the top in the very back corner. The front boards on all the steps are fastened the same way. All the screws were stainless.

[Wes Billups]

Lee, thanks for sharing. I bought a few stainless steel screws which are color matched to my decking. My plan is to use then on the first and last boards due to my deck layout. Thanks for the response.

Wes Billups