piping an air compressor

[dale rex]

need alot of detailed info on piping in an air compressor. Some of my questions have to do with the drops. I read somewhere that you should install risers at each drop point to keep any condensation from getting into your tools. Is it good to install a ball valve at each drop? I am assuming that i should have a ball- shut- off -valve right at the compressor also. Where does the regulator/drier get placed? Right athe compressor aor at a drop point. I am most likeky going to have just two drops.I am stuck between using black iron or copper pipe. The black iron might be less expensive but will take longer to install, but the copper would definitely be easier to install. Is 1/2" sufficient?
Or is 3/4" better? Gonna be around a 50 ft run to the end of the line. I am a newbie at air compressors like this , so I need all the advice I can get.:D

[Jim Becker]

I used 1/2" copper and it's worked fine. I didn't put risers/valves at most of my drops as the whole system is sloped back to the closet where I do have moisture taken care of. It's not that they are not a good idea as it is; rather, I didn't feel the need for my small system to go to that length.

[Leland Berry]

:cool: Dale, some answers depend on your compressor. It needs
an accessable tank drain to blow out oil-water etc periodically. A ball valve located near the main outlet,
i.e. entering into your line, serves to shut air off in
the event of a line break. That said, Jim's suggestion is
correct re: small systems where the piping ALL runs up-
hill from the tank, so no drops are necessary. Also,
be certain to have an electrical shut-off in case a
belt breaks, or the pressure switch fails allowing the
motor/and or pump to run continuously, thereby breaking
something expensive. 1/2 " pipe runs are suitable for
most shop needs up to a 7 1/2HP pump (pump not motor)
or unless you plan a bead blaster at the end of the run.
Up to 50ft you'll have no problem.--IF YOU NEED the drops
install a ball valve for drain on each. I hate to disagree
with Jim-sorry Jim, but I'm no fan of copper for air serv.
particularly nearing 150 psi- surges can fatigue the joints
to eventual failure-black pipe will be there when you heirs
are selling off you stuff ! Re: the filter/regulator, it
depends on the spot where you may need it--say spraying finish etc, (this assuming a main PR is present at the pump) Its very
important to use an automotive-type paint filter AT THE GUN
if you are using one. I use one even for nailers and air staplers to keep them clean, and tools which require lube,
I oil them by hand rather than using an inline lubricator.
Hope this is some help--:) :)

[dale rex]

Im getting alot of conflicting information about whether to use copper or black iron. (from many different sources) Some say black iron will rust and cause a problem and some say it will last forever. Copper on the other hand wont rust, but isnt as heavy and some say the solder joints may fail under pressure. I dont know which way to go....... some more research is needed.:o And im sure I will get some more opinions here, all of which I appreciate. Gives me more facts to make an informed decision.

[Bruce Page]

Im getting alot of conflicting information about whether to use copper or black iron. (from many different sources) Some say black iron will rust and cause a problem and some say it will last forever. Copper on the other hand wont rust, but isnt as heavy and some say the solder joints may fail under pressure. I dont know which way to go....... some more research is needed.:o And im sure I will get some more opinions here, all of which I appreciate. Gives me more facts to make an informed decision.

Dale, most industrial installations run black pipe. That said, I ran “L” grade copper pipe several years ago and haven’t had a problem. I feel the copper is much better than PVC. It installs easily and is relatively inexpensive and it is rust free.

Lelend, your font choice is very difficult for me to read.

[Tom Veatch]

On a subject such as this, the partisanship sometimes reaches an almost religious fervor. But the fact is, either one, if properly designed and installed, will give you good service for longer than you're likely to need it. If condensation isn't properly handled, you may have rust problems with iron pipe. If joints aren't properly sweated, you may have joint failures with copper.

Pick whichever one you are most confident that you can properly assemble and go with it. I haven't run the lines in my shop, and I don't know what the cost comparison between the two options will be when I do pull the trigger. But since I already have the necessary cutting and threading tools from running the gas lines, I'll probably go with 1/2" black pipe, unless there turns out to be a significant cost advantage using copper. OTOH, if I had to tool up for the black pipe, I'd favor using copper unless there turned out to be a significant cost advantage to using black pipe.

In any case, stay away from PVC. I understand there's a PVC formulation that is OK for pressurized gases, but the usual PVC water pipe has been known to fail catastrophically. DAGS "PVC Air Lines"

[Leland Berry]

I agree Bruce-I'll refont, kind of hard for me to read too-

[Randy Denby]

You can use silfos (15% silver)brazing alloy for the copper joints instead of 50/50 tin solder. It melts at 1200 degrees vs.350 for solder. It is what we use in the HVAC business . Much ,over 3 times, higher rated pressures and longevity. Not any harder to do . You still clean the joint thoroughly inside and out, DONT use flux, but just need to realize that the copper will need to be heated quite abit more before trying to flow the alloy. The silfos will start melting a couple of hundred degrees before the copper. This is why it would be wise to practice a few times before using your layout lines.

[dale rex]

randy.........can i use a propane torch to achieve the hotter temps?

[Jim Kountz]

If you do some research around the net on this topic you will get confused. Bottom line, as its already been stated here, is that copper is just fine and will serve your needs well. As far as the drops one article I read had you installing risers, dryers and valves for each drop. I personally think this is extreme overkill but in reality it wouldnt really run the cost of the overall system up all that much and would provide the most protection against water and moisture in your system. Lowes or HD I cant recall which sells a compact moisture filer for not much money. I think around $14 but dont quote me on that. My point being that at that cost you could afford to go ahead and put several in the shop. One last thing, if you do slant your piping towards your compressor be sure there it at least one place in the system just before the compressor that is lower with a drain to prevent moisture from flowing right into your compressor. A filter with just a short drop of a couple inches with a valve will do the trick.

[Mike Canaris]

You will need MAPP GAS and Mapp Gas Torch to melt sifos... and if you're passing the copper lines through where wood joists are in close proximity you have to be extremely careful for fire.....


I would use lead free solder which melts at a slightly higher temperatures... and stick with the type "m" thin wall copper it has a 400 psi bursting strength ... and this way you can keep the costs low.

[Bob Wingard]

I've done a few systems now and I've come to using 3/4" copper with risers. The 3/4" for most shops doesn't add anything but a little extra capacity, so 1/2" would do just fine. For each takeoff, I install a "T" fitting pointing straight up, then a 90 and a 45 to bring it back thru the top plate and into the stud cavity (these are attic-type installations) .. .. .. this causes me to take air off of the top of the pipe, eliminating the possibility of getting any actual water in the drop other that condensate from that particular drop. In the attic, the system is configured into a loop that tilts towards one corner .. .. THAT corner has a drain piped in that releases all water accumulated in the loop. The tank (in the basement) has an automatic drain (Wilkerson product) that blows for a few seconds every time the pressure iinn the tank changes by about 10-15 psi. I have a small polyflow tube attached to the drain that goes thru the block wall and discharges into the perimeter drain for the building. I drain the drop-leg of the loop once or twice a week, and ignore the tank .. .. .. works like a charm.

[Rich Dorffer]

I used 1/2" steel pipe throughout my shop. With the cost of copper, I have to believe that the 1/2" steel pipe is far more economical (I didn't compare as I didn't really consider copper due to how easily it can be dented and I wanted something extremely durable). I was quite successful assembling all the piping without leaks and sourcing all of the pipe from Home Depot and Lowes even having them cut the lengths I needed and threading them (even cutting multiple lengths from one 10' length and threading the ends for me). I didn't have to thread one pipe, simply do the measuring and planning to buy the correct lengths I needed.

I generally followed this diagram:

www.tptools.com/StaticText/airline-piping-diagram.pdf

I have four drops off my main, all of them have ball valves before branching off to the separator/regulators/filter and a ball valve at the bottom for draining. The main slopes slightly to the final drop at the end for draining purposes. I get very little moisture in my system despite the humidity that exists at times. Most of the moisture comes directly out of the compressor drain and the drain at the entrance of the main riser (not something shown in the diagram above but I added a ball valve at the bottom of the riser).

The best part was my Quincy QT-5 two stage compressor, that thing is great, easily handles my blast cabinet which is the biggest consumer of air that I have, air tools barely make it blink.

Regards,

Rich

[Jack Briggs]

Lelend, your font choice is very difficult for me to read.



Same for me!

Why not use galvanized steel pipe? The zinc coating should at least help prevent rust from forming. Ideas?

[Maury Saggus]

Dale,

I work in the air compressor industry. Copper is absolutely acceptable, and in some ways, preferrable for compressed air lines.
I would typically suggest 3/4" unless the cost is way over 1/2". This is in case you have future needs where the 1/2" may be slightly restrictive. I would also run type K if my budget allows - it is what is used in industrial applications. It is much more rigid than type M or L. Also, you probably won't find K in the BORG.
Copper will never rust, solder joint will not leak like threaded joints, and it is much easier to modify than black iron.....but copper ain't cheap!
Limit the use of vertical drops because they create a good place for water to collect. Instead, do as others have suggested - run the pipe slightly uphill so condensation can run back towards the compressor.
Filters such as the ones on a filter regulator will remove only liquid moisture, while the remaining passes through as a vapor. Most of the time this is good enough for general shop tools, air nailers, and even some painting. However, this remaining moisture can condense downstream and become a liquid, ruining a critical project. The simplest way to prevent this is to use a desiccant dryer on the line after the filter when spraying paint or finish on a "masterpiece". You will have to replace or regenerate the desiccant periodically.

Also, to prevent torching the wood behind the copper when you are soldering/brazing your joints, place a piece of hardiboard or tile backerboad behind the joint to protect the surface.

Regards,


Maury

[Al Willits]

After 25+ years of black pipe, I do not have any problems with rust, I do have a drip leg at each take off and I drain the water out, each time I run the compressor, (well...when I think of it) or sometimes just leave the drain slightly open, air ain't gold and if a bit leaks outs not a big deal.

If I was going to use silfos, I'd find someone with a turbo torch (runs on acetylene, or even better yet, a gas welding set up, practice a bit and try to make all the connections you can away from the walls/flammables.
Doesn't mean much if you use copper and then burn the shop down trying to solder joints...:)
Either will work fine, pipe being the stronger of the two, copper usually the easier to install.

Spend some money on a in-line filter/water separator, hit one of the auto paint supply houses and ask what the pros are using, then buy that one, or at least as close to that as practical.

Clean dry air is very important is your spraying finishes, do not add a in-line oiler to the system if your gonna do finishes, they do NOT mix.

I like and use a flexible quick disconnect from my compressor to the piping system, makes moving the compressor easier and cuts down on vibration, I also like to take my inlet air from outside, that makes the unit quieter although if your neighbors are close may not work, I also adapted a larger garden tractor filter to help keep inlet air clean and flows more between changing.
Also running the intake outside helps to pressurize the shop, helps clear flumes and such out a littler quicker.

Ain't rocket science, try to keep as basic as possible and you'll do fine.
Good luck

Al

[Randal Stevenson]

The copper handbook says to use braising for air pressurized lines, and there are restrictions if your going to have it supply breathable air. (not in most cases)
When I was looking into doing one for my brothers farm (still awaiting the finishing of the shed), I found there is a newer solder that has been rated as acceptable. I had a brand name (no longer have), but couldn't find it locally, but it is 95/5 as a mix. (not the same solder as water pipe). If in any kind of an earthquake/etc area, I prefer to have a shutoff valve on either side, with a hose, going through any walls. You can combine materials, at the garage we have a mix of hose (compressor through wal), to black iron, to brass fittings, that have a copper line off of them (old tire machine). The Brass fittings act as a dielectic union (needed for dissimilar metals).

[Brian O'Shea]

I have used nothing but 3/4" PVC for years, it is not expensive easy to work with and YES it holds any pressure just fine. There are no corrosion concerns with the PVC, and it can be shaped / bent like conduit to keep a close fit to the wall. I have even done a "direct bury" of 3/4" PVC from my garage to my house in order to have compressed air in my basement. People always ask about fear of burst, it wont happen! At my place of business the PVC has been run into by fork lifts and bumped by pallets etc. without any issues. As far as filters, seperators, valves, and traps, the air coming from the compressor is very hot, we usually exit the compressor with a ball valve then 90 straight up the wall, back down to the run height for a short run that includes a filter / seperator then back up and down again to run height and add a water TRAP / seperator. The thought behind going up and down the wall right out of the compressor is to allow the air to cool while running thru those zig zags, you will find the first seperator collects some water but the second water trap collects twice as much. My son paints cars in our pole barn at home so we placed a refrigerant type dryer at the bottom of the second drop and the result is completley dry air thru out the rest of the shop. The only other place we have a ball valve is to isolate the line that goes out side for shut off purposes during winter months as a precaution against the possibility of moisture collecting in the PVC and fittings outside. The "loops" / "zig zags" are your best defense against water getting into the rest of the plumbing, as they create the low spots you have read about and the extra runs of pipe allow time for the air to cool and the condensate to "fall out" and collect in the traps. I hope this helps and don't listen to the nay sayers about using the PVC, tattooed right on the PVC is the 400 PSI burst rating, so no worries!
Brian

[Randy Denby]

uh-oh....Brian ...good luck buddy....put on your armor.:).....or be ready to pull the plug on your computer.




I have used nothing but 3/4" PVC for years, it is not expensive easy to work with and YES it holds any pressure just fine. There are no corrosion concerns with the PVC, and it can be shaped / bent like conduit to keep a close fit to the wall. I have even done a "direct bury" of 3/4" PVC from my garage to my house in order to have compressed air in my basement. People always ask about fear of burst, it wont happen! At my place of business the PVC has been run into by fork lifts and bumped by pallets etc. without any issues. As far as filters, seperators, valves, and traps, the air coming from the compressor is very hot, we usually exit the compressor with a ball valve then 90 straight up the wall, back down to the run height for a short run that includes a filter / seperator then back up and down again to run height and add a water TRAP / seperator. The thought behind going up and down the wall right out of the compressor is to allow the air to cool while running thru those zig zags, you will find the first seperator collects some water but the second water trap collects twice as much. My son paints cars in our pole barn at home so we placed a refrigerant type dryer at the bottom of the second drop and the result is completley dry air thru out the rest of the shop. The only other place we have a ball valve is to isolate the line that goes out side for shut off purposes during winter months as a precaution against the possibility of moisture collecting in the PVC and fittings outside. The "loops" / "zig zags" are your best defense against water getting into the rest of the plumbing, as they create the low spots you have read about and the extra runs of pipe allow time for the air to cool and the condensate to "fall out" and collect in the traps. I hope this helps and don't listen to the nay sayers about using the PVC, tattooed right on the PVC is the 400 PSI burst rating, so no worries!
Brian

[Jim Becker]

Brian, typical PVC is not rated for compressed gasses which is very different than liquids under pressure. It's not just about pressure...

[Randy Denby]

Yep, expanding compressed gas is the key.Water doesnt compress. If you've ever seen pvc shatter...it does so into shards. No problem with water..but put a expanding gas behind it and the shards become shrapnel. Chances are this aint gonna happen,but if you just happen to swing a board into it , who knows. So, best to keep on the safe side.

[Randal Stevenson]

I have used nothing but 3/4" PVC for years, it is not expensive easy to work with and YES it holds any pressure just fine. There are no corrosion concerns with the PVC, and it can be shaped / bent like conduit to keep a close fit to the wall. I have even done a "direct bury" of 3/4" PVC from my garage to my house in order to have compressed air in my basement. People always ask about fear of burst, it wont happen! At my place of business the PVC has been run into by fork lifts and bumped by pallets etc. without any issues. As far as filters, seperators, valves, and traps, the air coming from the compressor is very hot, we usually exit the compressor with a ball valve then 90 straight up the wall, back down to the run height for a short run that includes a filter / seperator then back up and down again to run height and add a water TRAP / seperator. The thought behind going up and down the wall right out of the compressor is to allow the air to cool while running thru those zig zags, you will find the first seperator collects some water but the second water trap collects twice as much. My son paints cars in our pole barn at home so we placed a refrigerant type dryer at the bottom of the second drop and the result is completley dry air thru out the rest of the shop. The only other place we have a ball valve is to isolate the line that goes out side for shut off purposes during winter months as a precaution against the possibility of moisture collecting in the PVC and fittings outside. The "loops" / "zig zags" are your best defense against water getting into the rest of the plumbing, as they create the low spots you have read about and the extra runs of pipe allow time for the air to cool and the condensate to "fall out" and collect in the traps. I hope this helps and don't listen to the nay sayers about using the PVC, tattooed right on the PVC is the 400 PSI burst rating, so no worries!
Brian

You sure it is PVC? PVC is rated for water, NOT gas. There IS an ABS plastic that is gas rated, and OSHA approved, pvc is not and is subject to a fine in the workplace.

[JayStPeter]

I used 3/4" copper through my system. It slopes in various directions to drains under each drop and back to the compressor. I haven't had any liquid come out of any of my drop drains in 4 years, so it is probably overkill.

[Rick Christopherson]

uh-oh....Brian ...good luck buddy....put on your armor.:).....or be ready to pull the plug on your computer.Are you speaking from experience, or merely repeating what you've read from others?

I don't condone PVC anymore, but not because of the risk of shattering that the doom-sayers keep repeating. The problem with PVC is the longevity of the joints.

I installed a couple hundred feet of PVC in my shop 12 years ago, and it took a lot of abuse along the way. I had one catastrophic failure a couple of years ago, but the PVC didn't shatter. A joint came loose, and when the free-end of the pipe rocketed upward and struck a ceiling joist, the pipe broke further, but the pieces fell straight down onto a workbench. The explosion risks are grossly overstated.

However, about 1 year after installing the system with dual high and low pressure lines circling my shop, I began to notice super-tiny leaks at a couple of the less-used joints. Several years later I began to notice more significant leaks near my main manifold (30 feet away from the compressor) where I split the air off into 3-zones (high, low, and garage) with separate dryers and regulators. Then the elbow mentioned above failed catastrophically, taking out my high-pressure line. Earlier this year, another elbow failed taking out the remaining low pressure system. In this case, even though the joint failure was catastrophic, the PVC remained fully intact, but the joint separated cleanly at the cement.

Even though I have no fear of the PVC exploding, I will be replacing the entire system with copper.
==============================

By the way, for the original poster: My compressor has a tank pressure of 175 psi, so I exit the tank with a steel braided flex line and used steel pipe for the first few feet where my main regulator drops the pressure down to 120 psi. It is here that I changed to (will change to) copper. This main trunk line crosses the shop before going to my main manifold. The point of this is that you want your air dryer as far away from the compressor as possible to give the air a chance to cool.

I personally don't like the idea of sloping the lines back toward the compressor because the air flow will always be fighting the water back-drain. So unless the slope is extreme, you are not going to get a very effective back-drain of moisture back to the tank. At worst, have the line slope downward toward the dryer.

[Jeff Bond]

I have had a pvc system in my shop for five years now with no leaks. I only run about 85-95pounds of pressure in it though. Every shop I have visited seems to have run pvc too. I've asked most of those people if they have had any problems with there systems, no problems everytime.
PVC is cheap and easy to install. I used a grey heavy duty glue that the guy at the home center recommended and it seems to be holding up fine.
Use what you're comfortable with....:)

[Brian O'Shea]

Sorry ! I had no intention of giving bad or worse yet DANGEROUS information!!! I saw PVC in use in a airplane repair facility at the local airport, when I asked the owner about the reliability of it he said it was there when he took over 4 years ago and had never had an issue with it. When I mentioned bursting possibilities he said he considered the same things but since it was there when he took over he decided to replace or repair it when it became a problem, it never has. That PVC has been in service over 14 years. My place of business, my basement, and pole barn have used PVC for at least 8 years and 10 in one case without failures, leaks, etc.. My business has undergone anual inspections by fire inspectors, insurance inspectors, and OSHA on one ocassion.

Again, My apologies, I would not knowingly offer unsafe suggestions and it may be to late now but I withdraw the suggestion.... SORRY !

Brian

[Al Willits]

Kinda boils down to personal exprience, I had the end cap come off in pieces on a small air tank I used to operate a shifter on a motorcycle, pieces hit my leathers hard enough to cut them.

It was not the joint, the cap shattered.

I will not use PVC as a air tank, you all are welcome too....good luck.

I have never had copper or pipe shatter, simple choice for me.

Al

[Randy Denby]

Are you speaking from experience, or merely repeating what you've read from others?



Experience.....Luckily it happened behind a falling shelf . I had my air compressor inside my storage building, piped underground to my shop. I also stored my exmark zero turn mower inside this shed. If you've ever driven one of these lawn mowers, then you know how twitchy they can be sometimes. I inadvertantly hit a shelving unit backing out of the storage room and knocked it over into the pvc line. Luckily the shelf shielded me from the shards.
Looking back on this, I made quite a few mistakes in dealing with air lines. One being that it was piped underground and therefore leading to condensate moisture buildup in the lines.Another was not taking pictures of what happened.
20 years ago, a coworker and I needed to pressure test a Carrier 250 ton chiller barrel. We had a blank off flange welded up to isolate the barrel from the rest of the system and proceed to pressure the barrel to 150psig per the manufacturer. The welded flange burst at the weld and sent the roughly one ton barrel halfway thru a wall of the penthouse. Probably only a fluke....
. And like I said earlier, what happened in my instance was unusual and the chances are slim of anything happening. Just know it can happen and is not an internet legend

[Gene O. Carpenter]

I used 1/2" refrigeration soft copper and flare fittings to run my air line. I have 4 drops with a regulator on each, 2 moisture traps. I used an accordion type gas connector to go from tank outlet to the copper air line..I used an Imp tubing cutter, a flaring block and 2 fitzall wrenches. Secured the line with grommets between the tubing and hangers...I ran about 50 ft underground but used an old gas co trick to protect the copper from corrosives that might be in our once salt marsh properties..I wrapped it with electrical tape..Been close to 40 years now, didn't burn or scorch any woodwork, hasn't had and unpleasant happenings at all...I run 150 lb psi
Gene

[Maury Saggus]

I came back to this thread tonight and was shocked to find advocates for using PVC on compressed air lines.
I have personally seen the damage caused by an exploding PVC line. These were not caused by hitting them with anything either.
In the first case, i had an auto mechanic shop i called on about 9 years ago that was using PVC and gave me the same "we've used it for years" line. I warned him as others have said that PVC is rated for liquids only (even the mfg's say don't use for air). Two years ago he was opening a valve in the system above his head and the PVC exploded chain-reaction style throughout the entire room! He was showered with shards of PVC - luckily no large ones. Had it been at eye level, I hate to think what might have happened.:(
Case two was a fork-lift company I was calling on that had PVC piped in the shop. I was talking to him about the possibility of PVC exploding. He said, " It's not a possibility, it has happened here!" he showed me 3 places in the main loop where the line had exploded. This was a metal building with insulation. I two of the places, the insulation was blown off and the metal bowed out. The third had a patch where the PVC had broken through the wall.:eek:

You can run PVC if encased in a steel pipe, or you can run ABS which splits when it fails and doesn't explode.

In your own shop, you may do what you like. In a business, if an employee is hurt by PVC air lines, he can go after everyone above him in a lawsuit. I don't think the ease of PVC installations is worth risking my sight or the future of my business. Just my opinion..........

Regards,

Maury

[dale rex]

I think I have settled on black iron pipe. After careful consideration, and reading all the posts here and elsewhere, and a good article in Fine WW mag, I have decided this is my best option.Copper is expensive, and if I go with a silver alloy brazing for the joints it will take a MAPP torch and lots of flames and heat to solder all the numerous joints. I have a dusty shop and dont really want to risk a fire either. Black iron is less expensive than copper and should last me the rest of my life. It will be a bit more time consuming to install, but I can buy various lengths of threaded sections to fit my needs. I also think that some of the stores that sell it will cut threads on custom lengths for you, if needed. I am going to install risers at all the drops, and a drain valve at the bottom of each vertical drop. One question I have for you guys that have systems already..........where do you get good regulators and filters? I looked at Harbor Freight and dont really like the way theirs looked. If I run 1/2" pipe, can I get regulators and filters with 1/2" inlets and outlets? Or do these need to be adapted with reducing fittings?

[Leland Berry]

Dale, 1/2" pipe threads are a common reg. size as is 3/8-1/4--
The larger , the pricier. Grainger's Speedair brand are good quality
and cheaper than getting into industrial makes. ( female ).

[Al Willits]

"Good" regs and filters can be gotten at auto paint stores, don't scrimp on these parts, I ran two water separators and two types of filters, I was painting car/bikes, nothing but air and paint came out of my spray guns, and it stayed at whatever pressure I set.

Industrial supply houses have them too, but the auto/paint shops should have what you'll need and probably be able to reccomend a system for your needs.

Al

[Rich Dorffer]

I think I have settled on black iron pipe. After careful consideration, and reading all the posts here and elsewhere, and a good article in Fine WW mag, I have decided this is my best option.Copper is expensive, and if I go with a silver alloy brazing for the joints it will take a MAPP torch and lots of flames and heat to solder all the numerous joints. I have a dusty shop and dont really want to risk a fire either. Black iron is less expensive than copper and should last me the rest of my life. It will be a bit more time consuming to install, but I can buy various lengths of threaded sections to fit my needs. I also think that some of the stores that sell it will cut threads on custom lengths for you, if needed. I am going to install risers at all the drops, and a drain valve at the bottom of each vertical drop. One question I have for you guys that have systems already..........where do you get good regulators and filters? I looked at Harbor Freight and dont really like the way theirs looked. If I run 1/2" pipe, can I get regulators and filters with 1/2" inlets and outlets? Or do these need to be adapted with reducing fittings?

As I said in my previous post, the use of 1/2" steel pipe being is safe and economical, sourcing most of the pipe from Home Depot and having Home Depot cut and thread custom lengths. You might want to reread my previous post and check the link I provided as well, they carry all the parts you need and decent quality regulators, filters, water separators, ball valves, etc. Yes, they have 1/4", 1/2" and 3/4" accessories so you can purchase the appropriate size consistent with your pipe.

http://www.tptools.com/d/33_Air-Line-Hookup.html

Regards,

Rich

[Leland Berry]

Good Dale, now that you've selected the plumbing, its a good time to
give some thought, if you haven't already, to how you will actual use the
air system. I don't think you've mentioned the size/specs of your compressor. I assumed < 7.5HP in a small/med home shop. As has been
mentioned, air treatment products are available many places, and unless
you buy the very cheapest parts they will likely serve you well. Filters &
Regulators are a good place to waste or save money. If you can layout
what each drop will be used for , you can fit the Filter/Regulator --and
its cost-to your exact requirement. As an example, if you have a
particular drop which is DEDICATED to an air stapler or nailer which only
require < 5CFM @ 100 PSI, a 3/8" or regulator is more than suf-
ficient - and less costly than a 1/2". Reducers bushings are cheap by comparison. An old catalog of mine shows a 3/8" filter/regulatot at 45
CFM @100PSI--$34-- vs a 1/2" in the same series @140 CFM/100PSI--
$53. This may or may not sounds like paralysis by analysis, but I
figure money saved is new tools earned.---:cool: :cool:

[dale rex]

I have a question about regulator placement.............The compressor I am getting doesnt have a regulator on it. The PSI output I believe is 135 lbs. If I place a regulator at the beginning of my piping system I can regulate the pressure through the main run. Then do I need regulators at each drop for my nailers and blow guns? Is it better to skip the regulator at the start of the system and just place them at the drops where they are needed? OR..........have a regulator at the start of the system AND at each drop?

[Bill Wyko]

I did copper and had no leaks at all until I connected hoses to the fittings. I recomend ball valves incase you have several hoses connected. That way if you have a hisser you can drop the preasure w/o removing the hoses. IMHO

[Jim Becker]

I have a question about regulator placement.............The compressor I am getting doesnt have a regulator on it. The PSI output I believe is 135 lbs. If I place a regulator at the beginning of my piping system I can regulate the pressure through the main run. Then do I need regulators at each drop for my nailers and blow guns? Is it better to skip the regulator at the start of the system and just place them at the drops where they are needed? OR..........have a regulator at the start of the system AND at each drop?

Typical to put a main regulator near the compressor for the "system" and only use additional regulators for special needs. I use a second, for example, on my dedicated spray finishing drop to keep that link at 40 psi instead of the higher main system setting of about 90-100 psi. Same goes for the moisture filtration. I have the "big one" at the regulator and another small one on the spray drop.

[Leland Berry]

You might not need any regulator at all.

[Al Willits]

My compressor has a built in reg and I use that to keep at about a 100# for most of the time, I also have another reg on the one outlet I used for painting and that get adjusted depending on what I'm doing.

Al

[Jim Becker]

You might not need any regulator at all.

I think it's somewhat of a "best practice" to have a regulator on any compressor system as there are often times where matching the requirements of a tool can provide better and more predictable performance. And most mid- to large-size compressors provide a higher psi than you really need without one.

[Leland Berry]

I think it's somewhat of a "best practice" to have a regulator on any compressor system as there are often times where matching the requirements of a tool can provide better and more predictable performance. And most mid- to large-size compressors provide a higher psi than you really need without one.
Exactly!- That is why I was trying to learn about his equipment. If the
main pressure switch is 90/120 -or adjustable-?, we aren't sure whether this is a 10HP Ingersoll triplex or a ?? Its a different ball game when the
picture is clear. I have 3 regs on a 2 pressure system-main @125 and 42
for painting-2 of those three are running system pressure (not used). I'm
trying to help but I need just a little more info--.

[Jim Becker]

NP, Leland...I just wanted to insure that what you said was not misunderstood. It didn't ask for more information. ;)

[Tommy Squires]

Don't want to add any fuel to a fight here but there is a new option on the market today and it meets with OSHA approval, is cheap (relative to copper) and easier than either pipe or copper to install. Here is a link

http://www.ipexinc.com/Content/EN_CA/2_0_Products/2_1_Industrial/2_1_4_2_Duratec.asp

It's called Duratec (there are other trade names for it). I don't have personal experience with it but my brother just installed some at the company where he works. Said it was a snap. Fittings were expensive but the tubing was cheap and easy to run.

Just a thought.

[dale rex]

Leland.................Im getting an Ingersol Rand 3 HP 60 gal compressor, model# SS3L3. I dont really know all the tech specs offhand for this compressor, but I think it puts out 11 cfm @90 psi.

[Leland Berry]

Hey Jim we're cool, I appreciate you chiming in. I had mentioned
his eq. in an earlier post-probably should have referred to it. I'm
really trying to help him out here but his air system is at the point
where the pieces dictate the answers-you know .

[Leland Berry]

Leland.................Im getting an Ingersol Rand 3 HP 60 gal compressor, model# SS3L3. I dont really know all the tech specs offhand for this compressor, but I think it puts out 11 cfm @90 psi.
All right NOW were 'bout there. If I remember right, this is an upright,
with twin cylinders-(2-stage T-30 ) correct ? Probably yellow with black
heads ?-- Also , what tools are you going to run with it ?

[Jim Becker]

Leland.................Im getting an Ingersol Rand 3 HP 60 gal compressor, model# SS3L3. I dont really know all the tech specs offhand for this compressor, but I think it puts out 11 cfm @90 psi.

Dale, I own the same compressor. It's a fine machine. Congratulations!

[Leland Berry]

O.K. I found it. Specs are 135 PSI max, 80/20 duty cycle--Not a T-30
My data doesn't give pressure switch data, but I expect its 90/125
non-adjustable or adjustable to , <135PSI kickout with 135PSI relief.
All this means is that your max shop pressure will be slightly less than
135PSI out of the tank. Now all you have to do is look at what tools
you wish to use and their max pressure rating. You will need one reg,
located near reservoir outlet-but convenient, in order to set the press.
for that particular tool. Thats prob. going to be around 120 or so for
nailers etc.-but you need to check-they are different. Its likely this
one reg. will handle most of them-Here is wher personal preferrence
comes in .You may want a dedicated drop for a paint sprayer as an
example with its own regulator.--As Jim mentioned earlier, be certain
you are sending correct pressure to each tool.---Every drop down-
stream of the regulator will see regulated pressure--. You should be
ready for something FUN now---good luck

[Leland Berry]

Dale, I own the same compressor. It's a fine machine. Congratulations!
Hey Jim, I was typing during your post-yes I's a good unit . Can you tell
Dale whether to pressure switch is adjustable or fixed at what kick-in/out?

[Maury Saggus]

This is a single stage compressor although is has two heads. Each one compresses from 0psig up to 135psig in one stroke.

The pressure switch is crappy from the start. I would replace with a SquareD switch from Grainger. The stock switch is not adjustable. The Square D is adjustable, plus the pressure band can be adjusted as well.

Otherwise, this is a great compressor for a shop. I have one coming home next week as well. I will be replacing the pressure switch and I'll will post back with the stock # from Grainger.

Best Regards,

Maury

[Maury Saggus]

Just came across these looking through some old pictures. These are a couple of PVC air lines that exploded in a shop I visited. They had already repaired the lines with new PVC. Luckily, no one was near them when they blew......

This is a reminder that it is not "if it happens", but "when it happens".

[Bob Genovesi]

Dale, most industrial installations run black pipe. That said, I ran “L” grade copper pipe several years ago and haven’t had a problem. I feel the copper is much better than PVC. It installs easily and is relatively inexpensive and it is rust free.

Lelend, your font choice is very difficult for me to read.

I've seen iron or steel pipe in some places and copper in others but lately because of the increased cost of copper, steel seems to be what company's are using.

I have copper throughout my shop. I have 4 drops, a tank drain, a moisture filter right after the tank that feeds into a regulator and an additional moisture filter after the regulator.

Unless you're equipped with pipe threading tools sweating copper will be the best choice and will install a lot quicker.

Bob

[Al Willits]

"""""
Unless you're equipped with pipe threading tools sweating copper will be the best choice and will install a lot quicker.
"""""""""

Maybe not, I piped my system using pre threaded pipe, I had 6 or 7 drops and did just fine.

Considering pipe comes in 1/2" lenghts pre threaded I'd think that would be close enough for most anybody.
Also many hardware stores will thread pipe free or at a low cost, just buy a few extra coupling and you can make almost any lenght.

Al

[Leland Berry]

Dale,one last thought before I blast out of here. The I-R seems to be
popular--both Jim Becker & Maury Saugus have one. I have no direct
exp. with the SS3, but have with I-R and they have always made very
reliable industrial units and the folks at I-R have been straightforward
with answers. I expect that the manual is also, but here are a couple
of tips. Do not mount the unit rigidly to the floor. Use isolation mts. or
even wood would prevent vibration. Connect the 3/8 FNPT(tank) to your
new air line with a flexible link of some sort. Your main filter is next and
if space permits install it some distance from tank--this may be not
possible, but this gives some "cool down" space for the air to leave the
vapor stage , thereby allowing the filter to do a better job. Next in line
are regulators which we've beat to a pulp, then a lubricator, if you choose
to use one-I prefer not, as I have said, but in a wood shop I would tie-in
your blow gun ahead of any lubricator to prevent any possibility of oil
mist going where you don't want it. And FINALLY--wheeew--you'l want
some quick-connects for tools. Stay away from cheapees and potential
leaks. One way to tell is to look down into the coupler, silde the sleeve,
you'll see 3 or more balls which latch the nipple. Buy those with 4 or
more, they are far less likely to leak in service.---OK, pop quiz Monday.

[Al Willits]

If you do any painting or use air to clean off anything that you don't want oil on, do NOT use a in line luber, I don't care what you do, your gonna end up with oil coming out your paint gun...I guarantee it.

Been doing this air thing since about 1965 and have yet to see a luber work on a air system that needs none oiled air.

Much better to get a can of Marvel Mystery oil for air tools, and put a few drops in the tool as needed.

imho....maybe not so humble on this one....:D

Al