Table Saw + Jointer DC Ducting help...New Pic uploaded

[Jameel Abraham]

I'm having a tough choice deciding how to route my 6" pipe to my TS and jointer.

First off, all connections will either be 45 wyes or "long radius" 90's made up of two 45s and a straight section.

The issue is with the TS. I'm a little concerned about the numerous direction changes. After the 6" passes under the TS it will split into two branches, one for the main cabinet, and one for a future blade shroud. This setup offers an advantage in that I can put a blast gate at a convenient place for the TS, just to the right of the TS. And I can put a floor sweep here as well. Great place for one right by the lathe. But are there too many bends here?

I can also route the TS right along side the jointer pipe, for a smoother run, but I'll loose easy blast gate access, and my floor sweep. Plus it will cover up the window more than I want. I like this window a lot since I get nice afternoon sun. I'm not married to it though...could cover part of it if I have to for better efficiency.

Suggestions?

[Jason Beam]

I'd go with DC2 and put the gates just to the right of the window. The less ductwork you have BEFORE the gate, the less you have to be concerned with overall leaks when you're using the other tools.

[Paul Johnstone]

I couldn't see your pictures.. but you might want to consider running 5" duct to the cabinet, and 4" to the overarm dust collection. that's what's recommended when spliting a 6" to a tablesaw.

I have that setup and it works well.

[Jameel Abraham]

I can't fix these pics for some reason! Thanks for your tips though.

Reaching up to the top of the window will be a real stretch, especially pulling the gates out into the room. I agree, this is a better arrangement, but the gates will be out of reach.

Thanks for the suggestion about 5" duct. Didn't know that.

[Jameel Abraham]

Okay, I did some mock ups this afternoon and with a little photoshopping, came up with a pretty good pic of my layout here. See the new pic in the first post. I also edited the text a bit.

I think I might be a little paranoid here about too many bends. Just not sure what "too many" really is. I mean, my shop is small enough as is (25x25), and I've already got too much time in the shop just standing and staring at machines in "imaginary mode". I mean, I've got 10+ years tweaking my layout , so I've got the machines where I want them, it's just these fine points I'm fretting over.

So, you think I'll get good enough air flow with this?

[Art Mulder]

Why don't you just continue the pipe along the floor to the jointer? So just just continue on past the TS to the Jointer. This completely eliminates all that awkwardness above the window.

ETA:
Here, this is what I meant
74548

[Jameel Abraham]

See, that's why I love this forum!

Art, you're a genius.

Of course, now I feel like a complete moron for adding all that duct work!

Thanks a bunch Art.

[Jim Becker]

I agree with Art on this one.

[Dan Lyman]

In looking at the piping, I would also consider tucking the pipe to the rest of the shop against the wall. Just turn the Y so it is vertical and have the pipe hug the wall and then use elbows to turn out to the rest of the shop snugly against the ceiling.

Hope that makes sense. That way the pipe is out of the way as much as possible and will look a bit cleaner overall.

Dan

[Jameel Abraham]

Okay, how's this look now?

I went with Art's idea under the table, and added a 45 to the main branch and repositioned it so it wasn't sticking into the space above the TS so much, ala Dan.

I also added a bit of length between the lathe wye and the next wye to get as much straight section as possible before the DC inlet. Pentz says to allow at least 4 feet of straight before the inlet to cut down on turbulence which allows the best separation. Of course I have that wye for the lathe right before the inlet, but at least its not a bend. I'm hoping I'm not sacrificing my efficiency here.

[Jim Becker]

THAT is a much better arrangement Jameel! (I'm assuming you have a cyclone in that closet given you've provisioned for a floor sweep)

[Jameel Abraham]

Thanks for your input Jim! This duct routing takes a bit of wizardry it seems.

Yes, I have a Clear Vue in there! I'm planning two floor sweeps for the shop. One by the bench area, and this one. It seemed like a good spot for one by the lathe.

[harry strasil]

Rule of thumbs, doubling the pipe diameter increases the capacity 4 times so a 6 inch duct is equal to 4 3 inch ducts. and if IRC in plumbing 5 90°'s is equal to a plug. Also the outside radius of elbows will wear very quick from abrasion of material hitting the back in the process of turning the corner. Not familiar with the movement of wood chips in a vacum air system, but used to do a lot of building and maintenance of similar systems for dry dogfood transport in a feed plant.
Clear Flex Tube for long radius elbows might be an alternative and also give a view to possible blockages in the system. Long Radius elbows give less friction loss and smoother movement of material.

FWIW
6" = 28.27 sq in
5" = 19.63 sq in
4" = 12.56 sq in
3" = 7.07 sq in
deduct about 10% friction loss for each 90° elbow.

HVAC person will probably correct my quick calculations.

[Dan Lyman]

Hi Jameel,
I like that much better. Not trying to get too picky, but you may want to move the "Y" closer to the closet (so it's in the straight run of pipe) and flip it so the branch of the Y is going up.

The way it is now you're likely to get debris & dust from the "rest of the shop" pipe falling into the pipe for the tablesaw/jointer. This is just gravity at work. I have had a similar section of pipe and while it's not a big deal, I do get dusyty piled up on the lower run until I open the lower gate and then it gets sucked up.

It shouldn't be too much effort to swap it around now vs later.

Dan

[Jameel Abraham]

Dan,

That's a good idea about the wye. Gonna try that.

[Jameel Abraham]

Okay, I think I got it! Dan, I took your advice and not only switched the wye, but improved the lathe wye as well. Read on....

I switched the main branch and the TS/Jointer wye hookup (rotated the wye up) so when the main line joins this last run there are no openings on the bottom of the duct. I also swapped out the wye for the lathe with a 6-6-4 and also rotated it so the 4 is one the side, allowing the bottom of the duct to remain smooth. A 4" port here is plenty for my needs at the lathe. I don't do much turning anyways, so good 'enuf.

I also changed the layout of the wyes feeding the ts/jointer. This is nicer I think, smoother. That last wye at the bottom is there just to hold up that section since its not attached yet. That's where my floor sweep will go.

I was also able to change the location of the main branch so it works out a little better for me. It's a couple feet away from before, freeing up a ceiling outlet that it was almost covering. So win win on this one.

I'm sure there is a smoother/nicer way to do this section, but we'll see how this performs for now. Of course down the road I'll be redoing it. Isn't that how it always goes? :D

[Dan Lyman]

Jameel,
That looks pretty darn good to me. I think you have a great start on your ducting! I know you'll enjoy using it!

Dan

[Leland Berry]

:D Just to add to the delema--remember, technically in any
vacuum situation SHOP AIR , at atmospheric pressure, PUSHES
air and its contaminants to the lower pressure area created
by the vac. At the entrance point-lathe, jointer etc. the best
size is that which is just large enough to prevent clogging but
still small enough to keep air velocity as high as possible. This
is particularly important near the lathe, & jointer because the
shavings are much heavier than the dust at a TS.

Large vacs pump "LARGER" amounts of air under vacuum than
do small vacs, hence its best to "feed air " to the vac at a lesser
rate--i.e. volume--than its pumping. Neck-down the inlet and
you can hear the difference in air flow. Listening to the flow is
probably the best way to make eack leg most efficient.----Lets
see I know I had a broom around here somewhere :) :) :)

[harry strasil]

FWIW, Woodcraft has there remote starts for dust collection and shop vacs on sale, 110 and 220 models, 220 will handle a 3hp, $70 in the specials and closeout section.

[Jim Becker]

That last one is even more efficient, Jameel. Lookin' good!

[Ken Baker]

Since you are using sweeping 90s and such you understand the less resistance the better. What are your plans to connect to the tablesaw base? In your picture you have the suction line heading, let's just say north, the exhaust out of the back of the tablesaw is also heading north. So your dust is going to make a U Turn.

[Dan Lyman]

To connect to the tablesaw, what I did was to replace the 4" dust port that it came with and mak my own port using a heat register with a 5" pipe connection. The unisaw has a rectangular opening on the back that fit the hvac register pretty well. Makes it easier to get the saw connected to the duct work this way.

Hopefully my pic will come through.

Dan