Q for Domino Users- Cabinetry App

[Mark Hulette]

I'm contemplating a rather large cabinetry "project" (building kitchen cabinets) and am looking to streamline the process time-wise as much as possible.

Just wondering if those of you that have a Domino have used them in cabinetry and how the strength of the joints would hold up for use in a kitchen?

Thanks for your input...

[James Phillips]

The strength of the joint will be much more than needed. I love my domino and use it for almost every project I do. For cabinets you could get by with a Kreg pocket hole jig and still have the strength and speed. The domino gives an entirely hidden joint even from the back.

[frank shic]

butt joints with confirmat screws or assembly screws will work too. however, if you would like to use this as an excuse to purchase the AWESOME domino, by all means tell your wife that there's no better way to produce a completely HIDDEN joint that you won't have to skin over with another sheet of plywood or cover up with a raised panel. get the cross stop so you don't waste time measuring/marking the joints. make sure you have a vac connected up to it.

[Paul Johnstone]

I agree with Frank.. Use this project as an excuse to get what you want.
If you want a domino, go for it. A Kreg jig will work just as well for face frames (IMO) though. The Kreg will actually be a little faster, because you won't have to clamp the face frames up and wait for the glue to dry.
The screws are not noticable from the back either. No one is going to stick their entire head in the cabinet looking for pocket screws.

But get the toy you want. Redoing a kitchen is a big job. Good luck.

[frank shic]

another thought: you can use the domino to build either raised panel or flat panel doors! if you want to use a wood countertop, you could also use it to do the solid wood edging. hmmm... what else? oh yeah, you could also use it to build drawer boxes for the cabinets. mark, this is a GOLDEN opportunity to purchase one of the finest pieces of machinery out there!

[Rod Sheridan]

That's what I love about woodworkers.

Justifying spending thousands on new toys to make a project worth a few bucks.

"Yes dear, I absolutely need the Binford 4500 combination tree harvester/planer to make the new bird feeder you want. The $87,000 price tag, well dear, I always believe in buying the best for any of your needs".

Cracks me up, probably because I use the above justification from time to time.

You could cut mortices with a hand chisel, but boy, once you've been seduced by the domino........Rod

[Roland Chung]

A fellow woodworker named Overtime put together a nice tutorial that demonstrated how to build Euro style cabinets with a Domino and pocket screws. I tried incorporating these two elements of his technique and I think that I may want to stick with it.

When the boxes are side by side, butt joints with screws is my favorite "meat and potatoes" method, but the Domino is a major help with alignment and seemed much quicker than dowels.

Your kitchen project seems large enough to justify the Domino - go for it! Could also be a healthy choice - less dust than rabbets and dadoes (without some proper dust collection).

RC

[Scott Coffelt]

That's how I justified my Domino purchase... kitchen cabinets.

[frank shic]

hey roland, how about sharing a link with the rest of us? i'm especially interested because FRAMELESS cabinetry is my main interest.

[Eric Larsen]

A fellow woodworker named Overtime put together a nice tutorial that demonstrated how to build Euro style cabinets with a Domino and pocket screws. I tried incorporating these two elements of his technique and I think that I may want to stick with it.



Isn't there some sort of tradition that if you make a statement about a nice tutorial and don't include a link, you have to buy a Domino for everyone who reads the thread?

[Dennis Meek]

I think I just read my Domino.

[John Durscher]

I am using my domino to make some wall mounted cabinets. The cabinets will have glass sides glass doors and a mirrored back so the Kreg wouldn't really do the trick since I didn't want visible screws. The domino has worked very well for me so far.

John

[frank shic]

I think I just read my Domino.

care to elaborate dennis? :confused:

[Mark Engel]

I am using my domino to make some wall mounted cabinets. The cabinets will have glass sides glass doors and a mirrored back so the Kreg wouldn't really do the trick since I didn't want visible screws. The domino has worked very well for me so far.

John

Wow, the Domino works on glass too? I did not know that. ;)

[Mike Spanbauer]

Isn't there some sort of tradition that if you make a statement about a nice tutorial and don't include a link, you have to buy a Domino for everyone who reads the thread?


I think I just read my Domino.


care to elaborate dennis? :confused:

Frank, Dennis was referring to Eric's comment about the Domino supply requirement for anyone who quotes a great resource without supplying it.

I'd love to have one, for sure. But, I think I would rather trade my PM 719 for it.

mike

[frank shic]

thanks for clarifying mike! are you sure you don't want to craigslist your mortiser while it still has value? i ebayed off my porter cable 557 within a month after the domino was released.

[John Stevens]

Isn't there some sort of tradition that if you make a statement about a nice tutorial and don't include a link, you have to buy a Domino for everyone who reads the thread?

LOL. For what it's worth, the tutorial is at the Festool Owners' Group web site. Search for it on Google, because the TOS here forbids linking to other forums.

Regards,

John

[Mark Hulette]

A Kreg jig will work just as well for face frames (IMO) though. The Kreg will actually be a little faster, because you won't have to clamp the face frames up and wait for the glue to dry.
The screws are not noticable from the back either. No one is going to stick their entire head in the cabinet looking for pocket screws.

But get the toy you want. Redoing a kitchen is a big job. Good luck.

Paul-
I'm actually looking to go frameless. I've got a Kreg and thought about using it but was concerned about seeing the pocket holes in the bottom of the upper cabs.

BTW, its a new construction, not a redo!! :)

Thanks for the input!

[Mark Hulette]

Thanks for the replies, guys. I take it that since several folks have used it for cabinets that the Domino has given satisfactory structural rigidity for the relatively short time you've had the work finished?

Frank- you give too many good excuses, er, reasons!! You're obviously a seasoned pro at this justifying thing! Thanks!

[frank shic]

Thanks for the replies, guys. I take it that since several folks have used it for cabinets that the Domino has given satisfactory structural rigidity for the relatively short time you've had the work finished?

Frank- you give too many good excuses, er, reasons!! You're obviously a seasoned pro at this justifying thing! Thanks!

mark, you're quite welcome... i think! ;)

[Roland Chung]

Thought this might be enlightening/amusing. I was sitting down to check on this thread and noticed this in my office. When I noticed, the empty cabinet was as full as the one next to it. I didn't realize how heavy the books were until I put one shelf's worth into a box and tried to lift the box.

Note to self: Be sure to secure the back to the top, bottom and sides. If the back floats in a dado like it does in these cabinets, at least use hot melt glue (something that will hang onto the melamine) after squaring up the cabinet.

I routinely do that to anything that I build, but these were purchased from a component supplier and installed many years ago. Cabinets generally hold up well without failure, so we are always pushing the envelope as to what should be considered strong enough.

FYI, these were 3/4" melamine and doweled. My impression is that without the back being secured to the top, bottom and sides, the weight of the books was resting almost completely on the doweled connection between the top and the sides. Funny how those little things matter!

RC

[frank shic]

RC, thanks for sharing those pics. one of the things i do with 3/4" melamine carcases with 1/4" dadoed back is to fire staples at an angle through the back into the sides and top/bottom. are you a CAD designer by any chance?

[Tim Sproul]

[QUOTE=Mark Hulette;685082]Thanks for the replies, guys. I take it that since several folks have used it for cabinets that the Domino has given satisfactory structural rigidity for the relatively short time you've had the work finished?
QUOTE]

It has for me. I still glue the butt joint part of the joint in addition to the Dominos.

One concern I have is the minimum depth of mortise with the Domino system. It is 15 mm. A typical 3/4 sheet is about 18mm thick....leaving only 3mm material and the Domino is at the very end of one of the sheets at a corner joint. This doesn't seem like a good place to rely on the Domino...the Domino will hold but the material around the Domino will fail. This is the reason why I stress you need to glue the butt joint part of the corner joint. I think Dominos only aid in alignment at the corners of a case....putting a lot of Dominos at the corners might weaken the joint. I use 5mm Dominos for sheetgood casework.

[Randy Klein]

[quote=Mark Hulette;685082]Thanks for the replies, guys. I take it that since several folks have used it for cabinets that the Domino has given satisfactory structural rigidity for the relatively short time you've had the work finished?
QUOTE]

It has for me. I still glue the butt joint part of the joint in addition to the Dominos.

One concern I have is the minimum depth of mortise with the Domino system. It is 15 mm. A typical 3/4 sheet is about 18mm thick....leaving only 3mm material and the Domino is at the very end of one of the sheets at a corner joint. This doesn't seem like a good place to rely on the Domino...the Domino will hold but the material around the Domino will fail. This is the reason why I stress you need to glue the butt joint part of the corner joint. I think Dominos only aid in alignment at the corners of a case....putting a lot of Dominos at the corners might weaken the joint. I use 5mm Dominos for sheetgood casework.

The minimum is actually 12mm. And even with that, the manual describes how to make it less than that.

[Roland Chung]

Tim,

I agree that it is a good idea to glue the butt joint. Have you seen the pics that I posted earlier in the thread? It is the sort of failure that I think you are concerned about, where the dowels/dominos are so close to the surface of the material that the material can fail.

This is where I like Overtime's technique. The dominos help with alignment and strength and the pocket screws act as clamps while the joint dries and offers significant shear strength to the joint.

The pocket screw is fast, it has some amazing shear strength and leaves a maximum amount of material compared to a dowel or domino alone. There have been some long, comprehensive discussions regarding box construction techniques at a site called Woodweb.

That cabinet failure that I posted is a major wakeup call for me. It was in my own office. I got lucky and it didn't fall off of the wall or damage anything or anyone. When I saw this, I did a quick checklist in my head to think back if I neglected to secure the backs on any customer projects - the answer was a resounding "NO" (I think).

RC

[James Phillips]

[QUOTE=Mark Hulette;685082]Thanks for the replies, guys. I take it that since several folks have used it for cabinets that the Domino has given satisfactory structural rigidity for the relatively short time you've had the work finished?
QUOTE]

It has for me. I still glue the butt joint part of the joint in addition to the Dominos.

One concern I have is the minimum depth of mortise with the Domino system. It is 15 mm. A typical 3/4 sheet is about 18mm thick....leaving only 3mm material and the Domino is at the very end of one of the sheets at a corner joint. This doesn't seem like a good place to rely on the Domino...the Domino will hold but the material around the Domino will fail. This is the reason why I stress you need to glue the butt joint part of the corner joint. I think Dominos only aid in alignment at the corners of a case....putting a lot of Dominos at the corners might weaken the joint. I use 5mm Dominos for sheetgood casework.

I disagree with this assessment. Remember the domino is glued into the wood and the glue is stronger than the wood. In order for the joint to fail the wood inside the joint as well as outside has to fail. With tenons of any type I cannot see anyway of weakening a joint. Just my Opinion

[Dave Griessmann]

Where can one find the info on that post?

[frank shic]

dave, PM mail roland chung with your email address or do a search on the festool owner's group forum (you'll have to register but you don't necessarily have to own a festool).