Mortise chisel question

[Don C Peterson]

I have several of the Ray Iles English Pattern Mortise Chisels and I really like them, but they are quite spendy. I'd like to add a couple more sizes to my collection and I know several folks have recommended going after old socket chisels on eBay or flea markets etc...

In doing some looking around I notice that there are a number of other types of chisels that have leather washers. I find this "feature" on some vintage, but mostly on newer chisels. While I'm pretty sure I'll stick to socket type chisels, I was wondering what the purpose of the washer is? It doesn't seem to make any sense to me at all. If you are whacking away at a chisel trying to make a mortise why would you want any of the energy of the impact to be absorbed by a leather washer? It just doesn't add up in my mind. Can anyone straighten me out and clarify?

[Pam Niedermayer]

You need to protect your arms and hands from large shocks, so you can do it again tomorrow.

BTW, there's no particular reason to limit yourself to socket. For example, the old oval handled mortising chisels are some of the best (not better than my Japanese chisels, but very close).

Pam

[Mike Henderson]

I can't answer your question about the leather washer, but you can find English type mortise chisels on eBay for decent prices. I sometimes see one offered without a handle and those always go for a much lower price. Making a handle is not at all difficult but I suppose the collectors want original handles - so only people who want them as "users" bid on them.

Almost all those old mortise chisels are laminated with a piece of "cast steel" as the cutting edge, and a soft, low carbon steel as the rest of the chisel.

A good one should compare favorably with your Ray Iles mortise chisels.

Mike

[David Martino]

Awesome thread on mortise chisels:

www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=18662

SShhhh... don't tell too many people. I'm still trying to fill out a set of the long mortise chisels Bob recommends.

Possibly the leather-capped handles are firmers? Lots of the mortise chisels seem to have iron or metal hoops.

[Joel Moskowitz]

THere are many "sales" reasons for the leather washer, but the actual reason is manufacture. With a leather washer you don't need to have the handle in perfect contact with the bolster. THe washer will compress and take up the gap. Historically it was only common on cheaper chisels and on replacement handles. These days of course it's a cost savings and saves skilled labor too. Ray Iles told me it a complete "doddle" to do it and using a washer saves oodles of time. Personally I think it looks like crap.

[Bob Smalser]

Awesome thread on mortise chisels:

www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=18662



http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/5090019/123548876.jpg


Like I've said before...when American standard bearer Lie Nielsen decided to make mortise chisels and copied the wimpiest of the English designs rather than your favorite pigstickers or my favorite All-American millwrights (above)...

....several generations of boatbuilders, shipwrights, finish carpenters and carriage makers in my family well familiar with mortise chisels all rolled over in their graves.
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[Charlie Mastro]

Awesome thread on mortise chisels:

www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=18662

SShhhh... don't tell too many people. I'm still trying to fill out a set of the long mortise chisels Bob recommends.

Possibly the leather-capped handles are firmers? Lots of the mortise chisels seem to have iron or metal hoops.

That was awesome thread between Bob and Joel and the pictures of the boatbuilding from the 40's were wonderful stuff. The changing of the bevel on the bandsaw while they were cutting is a west coast boatbuilding trick I learned about years ago at Bob Protho's Northwest Boat Building School. I wasn't even a member back when that thread was written. Thanks for bringing it back. Wonder if Predo ever got his mortises cut?

[Don C Peterson]

Ahh... so many questions were answered by that thread. Thanks Bob and Joel for sharing your knowledge.

Joel, what you said about washers makes complete sense. I suppose that if the handle is not matched VERY closely to the bolster it would split and cause other problems.

I bought two of the Ray Iles chisels from you and I really do like them alot. I can't think of anything NOT to like about them except the price. I'm not saying that they are overpriced, just spendy. I could spend a small fortune to get a complete set, so I think I might branch out and try my luck with some vintage chisels.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Hi Don, The question I have for you is why more chisels and what sizes? My point here is that most mortises are excavated with 1/4", 5/16" and 3/8" and occasionally 1/2". Beyond that you are spending money for chisels that would be only rarely used since most folks use 4/4 stock planed to either 3/4" or 7/8". Even if you are making something out of 6/4 or 8/4 stock the instances of needing wider chisels are rare unless you are making a bench or something else really heavy duty. Having said all this, I will admit to having some heavier millwright/shipwright chisels myself.;) :D

[harry strasil]

my old mortise chisels are tang chisels. I like the old chisels because they have a Wrought Iron Body and have a thin layer of "Blister Steel" laid (forge welded) on. This allows the cutting edge to be harder than normal as it is the only part of the chisel that will except hardness while the Wrought Iron with no carbon remains soft and strong and not suceptible to breakage.

If the chisel is sharpened correctly and used correctly a lot of force is not needed to make them work well.

[Don C Peterson]

Hi Don, The question I have for you is why more chisels and what sizes? My point here is that most mortises are excavated with 1/4", 5/16" and 3/8" and occasionally 1/2". Beyond that you are spending money for chisels that would be only rarely used since most folks use 4/4 stock planed to either 3/4" or 7/8". Even if you are making something out of 6/4 or 8/4 stock the instances of needing wider chisels are rare unless you are making a bench or something else really heavy duty. Having said all this, I will admit to having some heavier millwright/shipwright chisels myself.;) :D


The two chisels I have are 1/4 and 1/2. I find I really need a 3/8 and would probably put a larger (say 1" or even 1 1/2") chisel to work on occasion. I think I'd use the 3/8" quite a bit since I find myself having to chop the 1/4" mortise and then widen it with paring chisels... The fact that I won't regularly use the larger size chisels is why I can't justify buying new chisels of the quality I want.

Although I have been well and truly bitten by the Neanderbug, I'm not looking to stockpile chisels just for the fun of it. I'm not a collector becacuse I think tools ought to be used, but just because a tool isn't used for every project, doesn't mean it's not worth having.