Need your Table Saw opinions

[Wayne Ilfrey]

Many of you many remember my recent post about a vintage craftman TS and my search for a new insert.
Well, ive decided to just come into the 21st century and buy a new TS. My wife agreed that the oldie is just too dangerous and not worth the trouble. (woohoo:D )
Anyway, I have about $600 i can spend on a new contactor style TS. I have been looking at these 3 brands that are in my price range... Jet, Rigid, and Hitachi.
Anyone have any opinions on these saws? I mostly do smaller work like decorative boxes & childrens toys etc. But occasionally build a bookcase or blanket chest etc.
Thanks guys.

[Ron Williams]

Check out the Grizzly saws. I have used Delta and Powermatic for years and have recently bought 2 pc from Grizzly and have been very pleased
Ron

[Donnie Folangelo]

If used saws are on your radar, take a look in your local classified ads or on Cragslist. Often times you can pick up a "higher-end" saw and a competative price.

[mark page]

I have used the Rigid TS3650 design, and it's a very good saw for the price. The OEM fence is decent, is quiet for a contractor saw, uses a serpentine drive belt. Cast iron top and wings. A great saw for the price. Also keep your eyes peeled for a used cabinet saw that may prove to be a great investment.

[Bill Ragland]

I purchased a Craftsman 22114 about 8 months ago and I have been very happy with it. It will occasionally go on sale for around $550 or a little less. It is not the same old craftsman that you may remember. It is made by Orion (I think some engineers that were working for Delta started the company). It is a very solid hybrid type saw, cast iron wings with a decent fence. I believe it is worth considering.

[Rod Sheridan]

I would vote for picking up a used higher end saw as well.

In my opinion (worth every penny you paid for it), you will regret purchasing a new $600 saw since you are just below the start of the saws that you won't want to upgrade in a few years.

If the $600 is firm, find a used cabinet saw in OK condition. In a couple of years, maybe upgrade the fence or the guard, however you get to keep your major investment.

Regards, Rod.

[Brian Hostetter]

There's a Delta on Amazon with free shipping for $273 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000H0RNL2/ref=ord_cart_shr/104-0689639-6979157?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance
Edit: With the promotions, looks like you get it for $260 shipped with a free mobile base.

Comes with the cast iron wings but no fence, find someone selling a Lowes Biesemeyer/Unifence for a reasonable price ($100) and you'd still be well under your target cost. Spend the extra on a nice blade, link belt, machined pulleys, building an outfeed/cabinet.

[glenn bradley]

It sounds like your use will be rather light most of the time. I'm also from the 'buy it for life' school but, I don't believe in buying a semi-tractor when all you really need is a Toyota pickup. You need to shop based on the bulk of your work, not the exception.

The Ridgid 36XX has a solid following and a good history as a quality product for a good price. I went with a 22124 since I wanted a cabinet saw but could only run 110v where I was and saw no plans to move / improve. I have since brought in additional power (wouldn't you know) and have 220v for other tools. The hybrid is on a dedicated 110v circuit and does not yet hint at needing replacement.

The hybrids are quieter, cleaner and take up less space. If $600 is your absolute limit and you can't catch a hybrid sale the Ridgid will come in well below that. Rockler has Delta sales now and then. As you state: "I mostly do smaller work like decorative boxes & childrens toys etc." I would buy the best quality tool that will meet that need.

[Ed Blough]

Also check out the new Jet saw model 708100 now at Woodcraft. Sells for $499. It is like a contractor type saw only with the motor located inside instead of hanging out the back. I won't call it a hybrid as it is superior design to most hybrids that are only contractor saws with motor stuffed inside.

This saw uses a one piece casting that runs between the trunions to support the Arbor and the blade is enclosed for good dust collection. You can get better saws but I will wager this saw will more than surpass most home/hobbiest needs/cababilities.

It is your money spend it on whatever you like but if you want a good saw at a right price this is it.

[Cary Swoveland]

Fortunately, today you have far more choices of quality, reasonably-priced saws that you would have had just a few years ago.

I am very impressed with my son's General International contractor's saw. It has a 2 hp motor (hangs off the back) and a wonderful Canadian-made (Biessmeyer) fence.

When you are shopping for saws, ask yourself if you likely would replace the fence down the line. If so, it's a cost to factor into your decision.

Cary

[Brodie Brickey]

Best deal around is used. If you keep an eye out on CraigsList or Ebay you should find something. Here's an example, unfortunately not in your area, and no not mine:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Grizzly-10-cabinet-tablesaw-w-Biesemeyer-Tsquare-fence_W0QQitemZ190165987470QQihZ009QQcategoryZ2078 9QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


I would say that if you can wait 2 months you will find something in your price range that new, would cost you at least double.

I picked up a Delta cabinet saw off the bay for 600. I've been very happy with it.

[Bill White]

Bought the Grizz G0444Z from a fellow Creeker. Well pleased with the price and the saw.
Bill

[Gary Whitt]

Another vote for a used higher-end TS.

[Steven Wilson]

I would look for a hobbiest used cabinet saw. They're better and take up less floor space than a contractor saw with the motor out of the back.

[Dan Clark]

You mentioned safety in your post. For about $600, you can get the new Bosch 4100 worksite table saw. It has a new blade guard, riving knife and anti-kickback pawls that are supposed to be much better than previous models.

Regards,

Dan.

[Anchor Sarslow]

I have the Jet contractor like saw with the motor internal. I bought it some 7 years ago. I like it much.

However, if I were to do this again, I would go the used Cabinet saw. It will offer more versatility and can grow as you do.. It will be about the same price and they typically last a very long time. If you do make changes in your building habits, it is already there for you and in the price range you stated.

Based on observation, reading and some opportunities in the last 6 months, I would sway you to the Grizzley for newer stuff or maybe a nice used Powermatic et al... if you can find one in your price range.

[Don Hein]

A new Bosch 4100 was displayed at a local bigbox this week. As I was investigating, another guy stopped to look. He was a finish carpenter. Said he went through two Ryobis before he got a Bosch 4000, which he said is a great saw. The 4100 has some useful upgrades (T-slots, riving knife, excellent blade guards, etc.). It will be high on my list to consider.

[Dave Cohen]

you can get a Jet Pro Shop hybrid with steel wings, cast iron center for about $650 and it was rated one of two top hybrid models in PWW in the recent hybrid review.

It has an enclosed cabinet for dust collection too, and I think it was rated as having the best power when ripping amongst the saws reviewed (Steel City, Grizzly, Sears 22124 and General). Pretty good value for the money for a new machine.

[scott spencer]

I've been under-impressed by the Hitachi C10FL that Lowes sells for $500, but the Jet and the Ridgid are both proven saws. The hybrid saws with an internal motor have several advantages over traditional contractor saws with the motor hanging out the back....the Jet 708100 that Ed mentioned is a nice for the price. There are several others from GI, Grizzly, Craftsman, Delta, Jet, Steel City, Sunhill, and Shop Fox that are worth investigating IMO.

The jobsite saws offer some portability advantages, but even those with riving knives (as opposed to a splitter), lose some safety advantages with their lack of mass and short distance in front of the blade. Most of the full size saws have 17-18" before the blade, and are much more stable. The portables are also considerably louder.

A good used cabinet saw is often the most bang for the buck if the right deal comes along...worth a look.

Ultimately, much of the end performance is determined by blade choise and good setup, so look them over and go with whichever you like best, then set it up well and get a good blade or two.

[Dan Clark]

Don,

The 4100 is on my list to consider too. I'm using a lot of Festool tools. Overall they do a good job, but one area that some people find to be a limitation is precisely cutting lots of narrow boards. So far, I haven't found it to be a much of a limitation, but I suspect that I'll get to a point where a tablesaw would be a better option in some situations.

The 4100 seems like a nice option for Festoolians because it matches priorities for many of us. It is portable and relatively small. Dust collection is very important to most Festool folks too. Dust collection on the 4100 is an open question, but I'm hoping that DC will be good too.

An important issue for me is safety. I've been thinking about a Sawstop Contractor Saw, but they are pricey, quite large, and not too portable. The Bosch 4100 might be a nice balance of safety and features.

You might want to go over to the Gary Katz's website. He has a short review on his website (GaryKatz with the appropriate extentions). Check "Tips & Techniques --> Tool Reviews". I believe he's got one in his shop and is preparing a more extensive review.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Dan.

p.s. at a local tool dealer, I got a chance to see the 4100 (no digital fence though) with the Gravity Rise stand. I was VERY impressed with the stand. It's a very slick piece of engineering!

[Todd Jensen]

You might also consider the Dewalt 744 and build your own stand for it. I really really like the rack and pinion fence, it has a strong motor, and should last for many years. I like it better than the other portable contractor brands - including Bosch, Hitachi, etc. I just like the fence that much - I hate the tap tap tap adjusting of the other style. JMO; short of that I would do as others suggested and look for a good used fixed base TS - you might be surprised as I've seen many decent ones with upgraded fences, etc. in your price range at the sources mentioned. Good luck and either way you go, have fun with your new toy!

[Dan Drager]

One word: Grizzly.

[Robert Conner]

Although any of the Saws mentioned are good choices, I would also suggest you search a bit for a used Cabinet Saw. You can find one on the local advertisements or the auction sites. Usually the footprint on a Cabinet Saw is larger than for a full size Cabinet Saw. The weight and smoothness really makes a difference in my opinion.
Robert

[Brandon Shew]

If used saws are on your radar, take a look in your local classified ads or on Cragslist. Often times you can pick up a "higher-end" saw and a competative price.

Ditto. I have a Crapsman contractor's saw and it's OK. I can't complain, as it was free and it works great for what I need, but if it was up to me, I would look for a used cabinet saw in that range.

[Bill Wyko]

I recently purchased a PM with their 50" fence. It has a problem. when you tilt the blade to 45 degrees the motor mount hits the fence at about 39 degrees. If you continue to crank it, it will throw the entire arbor mount out and you will no longer be able to use the saw. The fix is to re drill the holes on the rear angle iron mount and move it up about 3/4 of an inch. The saw with the fence and the table is a great deal at 649.99 but if you don't do this fix, you'll be returning it, or worse, you'll be going to the emergency room with a kicked back board hanging out of you. You might be able to pick one up cheap and re-align the arbor yourself.

[Greg Crawford]

One thing to consider is dust collection. Contractor saws are very difficult to get reasonable DC with. The cabinet or hybrid saws with a good DC will give you more working time and less clean up time.

[John Thompson]

I have to agree with the guys that a used cabinet saw is the best choice in the $600-$700 range. But... it requires 220V as most are going to have 3 HP + motors. One with 30 rails does take up less space if that is a concern.

But.. given you stated that you do light work with some medium light-weight thrown in (and do some soul searching as to possible future needs), I am going to pitch a tent behind Mr. Glenn Bradley and suggest wait till a hybrid goes on sale. That would cover all but the heaviest ripping as are my personal needs.

The Craftsman zip code made by Orion does often go on sale it seems. The Steel City hybrid is basically the same saw with a few refinements beyond the zip code saw. BTW.. Orion is owned by Steel City and Mark Strahler (president of Steel City Tool-works) had a hand in designing both saws.

If you must stick to the $600 range, again I would second Glenn Bradley on the Ridgid contractor as it is the best contractor I have seen this side of the Canadian General which seems to be a bit pricey IMO due to duties.

Good luck meeting your needs...

Sarge..

[Kevin Groenke]

One more in the cabinet saw camp.

I haven't bought a saw for the basement because anything short of a cabinet saw just doesn't cut it for me, I'd rather take the 10 minute drive to the shop than settle for less. The peace and quiet of hand tools only is nice too.

Look for a used unisaw, pm etc.. or consider the new grizzly. You're very unlikely to regret buying a cabinet saw (with a good fence) nor will you have to "trade up" anytime soon.

That said, when our cabinet saws were down recently we set up our worksite Bosch 4000 and it actually got the job done. I guess what you don't know can't hurt you, plenty of people do great work on contractors saws.

You might consider the SawStop contractors saw. You would have time to think about it, I see they've moved the delivery date back again.:(

-kg

[Shannon Vincent]

I have the Ridgid ts3650 and am very happy with it.Decent fence.Relatively quiet.Mobile.Was basically ready to go out of the box.Had room for a router table in the extension....That said,if I had the $$ to spend...Grizzly 1023s left tilt is the way I would have went at the time.For the same money now,the Steel City with the granite top looks pretty good.But...I digress,for $600 I would still buy the Ridgid.:cool: ....Now which planer...the TP1300ls or the R4330?Hmmm....:rolleyes:

[Dave MacArthur]

I am going to pitch a tent behind Mr. Glenn Bradley ...
I really don't like the sound of that...



again I would second Glenn Bradley...
much better.

[John Thompson]

I really don't like the sound of that...



much better.

Dave..

Pretty much Army lingo for someone is out front in command and you're just backing them up. But then again... you're Air Force. :)

Sarge..

[Dave MacArthur]

All kidding aside, Glenn's post really is the well-reasoned answer IMO. Despite this, and perhaps due to a growing addiction to perusing CraigsList for used tools, I just keep wanting to say "keep looking in CL for a good deal on a used." But he still might be right ;)

[Jeff Raymond]

Personal opinion here: The Biesemeyer is vastly over-rated. Got one and would trade it for the Unifence any day. Don't let that be a deal breaker.

[Chuck Lenz]

One thing to consider is dust collection. Contractor saws are very difficult to get reasonable DC with. The cabinet or hybrid saws with a good DC will give you more working time and less clean up time.
I disagree. I have a Delta 34-445X Contractors tablesaw and have improved the dust collection.

[Brian Weick]

I got mine and will never look back - $760,,,,, 1/2 price sale for 3 days $380.00 . I have it hooked up 220v , flies through 3" cherry with no problem. If you can get one on sale - grab it!
Brian

[Rick Gifford]

I have the Bosch 4000-09. Its a real good saw. It has many excellent reviews. I am limited on space so a real large TS isnt feasible. I like the ability to pack it up and take it to a worksite.

So far I have no complaints outside the dust collection on it.. I will be modifying to a larger port.

[Wayne Ilfrey]

Once again you guys come thru for me.
Thank you for all your comments and opinions.

I have looked all over texas on craigslist, ebay and local papers and have not found any cabinet saws for sale at a price I can afford.
So if something dosent come up by next week I will hit my local Home Dpt and buy that Ridgid saw. I am convinced that is the most saw for my money.
In preperation for my new toy, i just ordered an Osborne Saw Miter. Looking forward to playing with it.

Cheers,:)

[Al Garay]

The Bosch 4100 has a new dust port, according to the Bosch rep I met at the Woodworking Show today. He said it can capture up to 90% of the dust. To me that would be incredible, which means I am hopeful but would want to hear from actual user experience.

For my small shop, the 4100 is the best option. Though, I would jump at a Grizzly 1023 for the right price.

[Wayne Ilfrey]

Well guys, i did it.
I bought the Ridgid TS3650. I had been looking for a decent cabnet saw for a good price, but there was nothing worth buying. So I went to HD yesterday and purchased the Ridgid.
I started putting it together last night. I havent finished it yet but Im almost done.
Here are some picts...

http://www.freedomdesignonline.com/clients/Wayne/TS_3.jpg
http://www.freedomdesignonline.com/clients/Wayne/TS_1.jpg
http://www.freedomdesignonline.com/clients/Wayne/TS_2.jpg

compare this to what I had before...
http://www.freedomdesignonline.com/clients/Wayne/wood/TS_1.jpg

cant wait to make some sawdust! :p

Thanks to all of your comments and help.

Cheers.