Nails vs screws for framing

[Rob Blaustein]

My impression is that when framing a wall using 2 x 4 construction most people use framing nails and either a hammer or a nail gun. Do people use screws? I was building some walls for a shed and I don't have a nailer. After botching a few (I think I was trying to drive through a not or something) I started to wonder if it might be easier on my arm and faster to use 3" screws and an impact driver. I imagine that the screws are more expensive, but for a small shed it wouldn't be a factor. Is that a reasonable option and is it something that's done out there in the construction world? If I decided to try that, do I need to pre-drill standard 2 x 4's or are they soft enough to just drive a #10 3" decking screw through?

[Tyler Howell]

I use both.
I find screws much more forgiving and more expensive. They also take more time to install.
I do not pre-drill in most soft woods.
Plan on some splitting.
PSS I just bought a Senco auto load screw gun. Stelth gloat.
Haven't road tested it yet. I'll let you know how it turns out.

[Chuck Saunders]

For a shed, screws would work fine. You do not need to pre-drill. The screws will not hold that well because you are going into end grain. Nails don't hold well either so I wouldn't worry too much. The sheathing is what really holds it together.

[Chuck Saunders]

I have the Senco driver as well Tyler. It is the greatest for screwing 2x decking down. I love it, saves the knees too.

[David G Baker]

I used a lot of screws in a remodel in California. A few years later it dawned on me that I should have used a different type of screw or nails. I used the hardened black 3 1/2 in screws which probably shouldn't be used in earthquake country. The gold colored screws seem to be less inclined to break when stressed. Oh well, the ex wife got that house.
I use Sheetrock and deck screws for almost every project that I build unless it is cabinet type of work or if a nail gun is more convenient. If the material is hard I pre-drill. If I am driving long screws I pre-drill and use soap as a lube.
I had someone do some Sheetrock work and they used the $99 Senco driver. The guys said they love the Senco and with it being so cheap they use them until they crash then toss them and buy a new one.

[Kyle Kraft]

I'm not a construction guy, but if I had to make a guess as to why they don't use a lot of screws is simply time and money.

A carpenter can slam a 40 round clip of nails before you can drive half a dozen screws, and the nails are cheaper.

Have you ever tried to undo an "oops" when it's been assembled with a nail gun? Better get the sawzall. The cement coated nails that are wire collated are nearly impossible to remove under normal circumstances.

Just a thought.

[Rob Blaustein]

Yes, a nail gun is definitely faster than screws but if you don't have one and your hammering skills are so so (like mine) I bet screws might even be faster, especially with an impact driver (I have one). So I think I'll give it a try.

[Richard Magbanua]

How about pocket screws? Kinda half joking but, hmmm...

[Sam Shank]

I've used pocket screws in construction in special cases - like when adding blocking for cabinets in confined spaces, or a brace under a floor for some hardwood flooring that had no subfloor and a finished basement.

Try anchoring a stud that you're adding to the top plate in a wall that has plaster and lathe on the upper 2 feet. Can't be nailed, and screwing is a PITA without the pilot hole. Works like a champ.

They definately come in handy and make hard problems much easier when it's in your arsenal. I always take my kreg rocket and a handfull of the long pocket screws whenever I go to a job.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

In a presentation by a local lumber company who happens to be on the stock exchange...in other words it's BIG.........screws don't have the shear strength that nails do. They really weren't meant for framing. I'd use nails.

[Rob Wright]

What Ken said -

When nails fail they usually will fail catastrophically in shear. When nails fail, they will usually fail over time through bending. I had a local inspector reject some framing I had done in a previous house. I ended up re-nailing it.:(

$.02 for free.

[Bill Roland]

For a small job like a shed why not rent a framing nailer? The borgs all have rental centers and they are not that pricey for a couple of days use. I renter a neumatic floor nailer after my arm gave out doing 2000' + Sq. Ft. of oak floors. It sure speeded up the process.

My .02

[John Thompson]

I just finished a 16 x 20 deck Sat. and used screws for the deck flooring. I used lag bolts to secure post the the deck framing. Screws on rails with the exception of 2" brads on the vertical lattice post.

But... I would never use screws on a shed or wall framing... why? Nails are sufficient for framing in those cases where you won't get excessive and directional weight thrown in the equation as on a deck. Especially one that sits 12' off the ground. Nails are "much" cheaper and much quicker to install.

I had two drills off of a split. One with a counter-sink bit and a 1/2" drill with a Phillips head set to drive with. It took a day and a half to set over 8 lbs. of 2 1/2" deck screws in the flooriing. I could have finished the floor with nails in about 2-3 hours by hand, much less a nailer (which I did use a Senco 18 guage to set the brads mentioned). But.. the screws will come up easier down the road if floor boards need to be replaced.

The shed is going to carry basically fixed weight from day one so that determines the size I would use. I personally don't see the need or added expense and time for screws in that situation. On the deck I feel I need extra strenght as over-load is not out of the question and there are liability issues.

Sarge..

[Jerry Allen]

Rob,
Like Tyler I use both.
Drywall screws are the weakest (don't use them). I generally use coated or galvanized decking screws; sometimes stainless. The shaft between threads of screws is smaller than sinkers and hence more likely to break. If I buy some and I am getting too much breakage, I take them back. If you are getting more than one out of 25 breaking, than get another brand or type. There is a lot of difference in screw quality.
That goes for nails too. I have had plenty of crappy nails that have heads that are prone to popping off. Sinkers have their own failings. The lube coating and smooth sides makes it easy for them to pull out. I have built decks framed and resided using both. In my neck of the woods it gets very cold and the sun is intense. That tends to make nails walk out of the hole when exposed.
For that reason alone I would never use nails for decking or siding.
I also like the ability to be able to remove the screws without damaging a part more easily than nails.
I have two lawn buildings 10x12 feet that are almost all screws that have lasted well through weather and high winds. Not that nails wouldn't have lasted, but my experience in this neck of the would tells me that nails would have started pulling out by now. When I used nails exclusivley I used to periodically have the pound heands back down. Of course there are annular nails for that problem, but they are an even bigger pain to rework.
It is slower and more expensive, and I'm not a pro with a hammer either, so like to use screws and am willing to pay the price. If I was framing a whole house, I might reconsider.
I'd also like to note that steel framing uses screws, not nails. It's a cool method. No twists, no splits, few errors. I hate toe nailing 2x4 lumber.

[Randal Stevenson]

Probably depends on code, for non structural things like framing a basement. But I do have to debate the nails are cheaper part.

A friend went out of his way to get a screwgun to finish his basement, as screws were cheaper then the nail gun and another trip to the emergency room, with a nail through three fingers.

If you don't feel safe with a nail gun (or don't know how to use it), hammers have been around for years!

[Stan Smith]

I've also used both, but I like nails better for that project. I had a framing nailer but gave it to Habitat when I was done building my shop. For $42, I bought a Bostich palm nailer and now save my arm when I have to nail stuff. However, if you don't have a compressor the cost can go up.

[James Jaragosky]

don't over think this. deck screws will work just fine.do not use drywall screws.jim

[Drew Armstrong]

The reason nails are used in framing is they work better. The vinyl coated sinkers hold better and withstand more sheer stress than the screws will. The way they hold is obviously different but if the house moves the nails will flex and will still hold... the screws will either pull through or break. Screws are great for sheeting something but not for the frame of the house. On a little shed... do whatever you want... if you want to use screws there are some that will work. Make sure you call McFeelys and tell them what you want the screws for first. They will get you some with a more ductile or flexible shaft. Even so in most cases screws will not pass a building inspection with wood framing.

Drew

I ran a framing crew for several years and have had a General Contractors license. Unlike most of you guys... framing is what I am good at... cabinet and furniture making is the new fun thing for me.

[Prashun Patel]

As a homeowner/diyer I sympathize w/yr reluctance to rent or buy a framing nailer - especially if you don't own a compressor. If the framing stage takes a few days or weekends, the price of renting can become prohibitive.

I know it's old-fashioned, but I framed a partition wall with relative ease with a hammer. Toe nailing is pretty easy once you get the hang of it. On a small shed, I can't imagine that the time saved with a pneumatic'd be THAT much more.

To keep the studs from shifting while hand nailing, I screwed a removable 'stop' next to the stud while I nailed it into place. I also pre-drilled the holes just to keep the angle straight and to prevent splitting. It's overkill, but once you get the hang of it, it goes pretty quickly.

All that being said, if yr gonna do trimwork, I'd definitely invest in a compressor and a finish or brad nailer. For that kind of work, I really appreciate the speed and neatness of the pneumatics.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I started using screws some 30 off years ago when working on ancient buildings I observed that I was knocking plaster off the walls in adjacent rooms.

Since then I have rarely used nails.
I'll tell you this however. If any one ever has to take your work apart and you screwed it, they will hate you something fierce.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello,
One word - Bostich.

Best $250 I've spent in a long, long, long time.

Framing nailers & roofing nailers are a lot like a hammer drill.

You may not need it often, but when you do, there's no substitute.

Part of the rehab we just finished involved driving nails into some 60 year old 2x4's. Those babies are hard as a rock.
Believe me, after bending a half dozen nails midway through, I delveloped a ton of respect for the carpenters of the post WWII suburban era.
Those guys must have had forearms like Popeye!

The framing nailer made short work of it. Ker-chunk and voila! One driven nail - countersunk slightly to boot.

[Leland Berry]

Got to throw in my 2cents, but you've probably got this thing screwed together by now. I like and use both frequently. Everyone has good points
but if its a small shed, and you don't have air, & if you may be a little bit
uncomfortable with a nailer ( I've tagged the two middle fingers together
with my paslode) actual costs may be close-collated nail aren't cheap either. You can't beat a nailer for wall framing or where precise fit is not
important, but you can't beat a small cordless impact rigged for screw-
driving (NOT a regular cordless screwdriver-too slow) for the precision stuff-windows etc. Besides the roof trusses need hurricane straps and
that means hand nailing those anyway.--That said, you gota know I'm
kind of a screw-it freak, having just finished a 540 lft long privacy fence
with nothing-nothing - but screws, more than 7000 of them in fact. That
fence will be there when I'm long gone, and longer than the neighbors' that was nailed.--LeeB