Dunlap Planes - Are they worth it?

[Ken Shoemaker]

First, I want to get some experience with hand planes but have zero knowlege. I just got two Dunlap planes, a #3 and #4 for $5.00 each at the local Flea Market. It appears that there has been no repaires, the soles appear without rust and pits, and complete with original parts, however, dirty as heck.

The question is; Are these planes good planes? Are they a good start or are they difficult to deal with. I guess I'm wonerding how they stack up to Stanleys.

Any help is appreciated... Ken

[Bill Houghton]

Dunlap planes don't have the best reputation - they were a second line (Sears? Montgomery Ward? can't recall, one of those). Still, I've had some "second line" tools that turned out to be quite good.

Suggestion: pay no attention to the siren call of getting them pimped out. Disassemble them, one by one so you don't mix parts up, clean them (notes below), wax and oil moving parts including the soles (oil things that pivot, wax things that slide), sharpen the irons (further notes below), and give them a try on some pine from the big box store, or scrap. Don't worry about rust or missing paint - good paint jobs only make planes go faster if they have wings and can exceed 500 knots in the air. If they work well, great; if not, watch for $5 Stanleys from before WWII (further further notes below).

Cleaning: I like Brillo pads and hot water, but many people consider this heresy and use mineral spirits. Both are fine, though you have to dry the plane immediately if you use water, and promptly do something to keep rust away (I spray on WD40, then, as noted above, wax or oil the parts that will move in use).

Sharpening: in my opinion, sharpening is 80% of tool tuning. Once you learn to sharpen, a lot of other issues fade in importance. Track down articles, get confused, pick a method, and practice, practice, practice. Some of the cheaper hand tools didn't have very good steel in the irons/blades/cutting bits. If you find your Dunlaps dull easily, consider buying an aftermarket iron before you go out and spend $200 on a new Lie-Nielsen or Lee Valley plane.

Shopping: my two keys in finding a Stanley or other metal-bodied plane worth looking at more closely are: full oval tote (back handle) - that is, if you wrap your thumb and first finger around the tote, you're enclosing a shape with no flat sides; and a frog adjusting screw below the adjusting wheel - that is, a little screw at the bottom back of the frog that's clearly designed to move it back and forth when the frog screws are loosened. I am assuming in saying this that the frog is cast iron - if you find a pressed steel frog, put the plane down quicklike. If you find those features, inspect the plane for condition, and, if price is right, go for it.

[Ken Shoemaker]

Bill,
Thanks for the help. I'm going to take pictures here in a bit and then get to work... I hope it wotks out... I'll keep you informed... Anything else you think of is appreciated...

[George Sanders]

I took an old rusty Dunlap plane my boss had laying around the shop and cleaned it by electrolysis. Then I sharpened it using the scary sharp method. The thing takes nice cuts and my boss was amazed by how well this old cheap tool works. Your planes should clean and sharpen up good enough for you to get the hang of hand planing. Then...Beware of "The Slippery Slope":eek:

[Mark Stutz]

Ken,
That's all good practical advice. I also think it's a good idea to know what you are shtooting for, that is, what a well tuned and fettled plane can do and what it feels and souinds like going across the wood. I really stuggled until I picked up one of Dave Anderson's a few years ago. It hit me...THIS is what I'm after. My definition of sharp changed in a heartbeat. Needless to say, it' been all downhill since then...and the slope steepens the further you go! Good luck.

Mark

[Ken Shoemaker]

I'm afraid that "feel" will be elusive. I just spend about an hour moving from 80 grit to 600 grit sandpaper on the sole to flatten it. Anyway, I think it's pretty flat and as polished as I an make it with what I have to work with. I looked at the blade and it's gott'a go to the Tormek before I start with the stones ( expect to go to 8000 grit ). I'll then try to figure out if I've done it rght and "tuned it" the right way.

Finally, I'll sit and contemplate how to use them.:cool:

[Billy Herman]

Bill, is there an easy way to tell the difference between the cast iron and pressed steel frogs?


.... I am assuming in saying this that the frog is cast iron - if you find a pressed steel frog, put the plane down quicklike. If you find those features, inspect the plane for condition, and, if price is right, go for it.

[Jim Belair]

A pressed steel frog will look like it's been made by bending thick sheet metal (which it has).


Wow, old thread.

[george wilson]

Dunlap was indeed a second quality line under Craftsman sold by Sears. They aren't as well finished as the top of the line "Craftsman " tools(Are they top of the line?),and were cheaper in their manufacture.

I might suspect that their blades might be made of a lower carbon content steel than Craftsman. And,Craftsman tools themselves have been shown to have deplorably low carbon content in their chisels(which were made in Holland). Those chisels,from a Fine Woodworking study back in the 70's or 80's, had a carbon content of half of one percent. JUST enough to take an edge,but not enough to HOLD that edge for long.

Now,I don't know if this low carbon steel content carried over into their plane blades or not. But,it's possible. And if it DOES,then Dunlap would have even LESS carbon. Might hold an edge for a little while,but then start losing it due to poor WEAR RESISTANCE(which is a VERY important factor in tool steel quality).

In spite of all this GUESSING(which is what I AM DOING,in an educated way!).if your Dunlap DOES plane well,and does hold an edge,use it and be happy!!:) If it does NOT hold an edge,can you find an OLD STANLEY plane blade to fit it? I wouldn't waste money on an EXPENSIVE custom made blade,but a Stanley blade ought to be had for a few dollars if it will fit your plane.

Things are very relative. When I was a penniless teenager,I used a 50 cent (New price!) chisel,stamped out of 3/32" flat stock! to do some pretty decent work with. I had only a cheap,gray hardware store whet stone,and stropped it on BARE PAPER till it was quite sharp. I had an old Craftsman block plane. With these,and a pocket knife,I did some actually pretty decent guitar making. I was a lot better off than an ancient Egyptian,who did some remarkable work with COPPER tools!!:):):)

But,with the coming of my first REAL job(teaching shop),came the beginning of becoming a tool PIG!!!! Such is evolution.

[steven c newman]

349876
Pressed steel frog. Lever cap will be a lot shorter than a normal cap, and may even be a stamped steel one.
349877
Two more clues. A strange looking rear handle, and that yoke for the depth adjuster wheel.
349878
This was made by Worth. Note the frog. The yoke is also a give-away.
349880
About as close as you should get to one of these.

[steven c newman]

Just for fun...see how many "ggod" planes you can pick out of this display..
349987
Maybe makes this a little easier...
349988
Might be SOMETHING worth the effort to pick it up?
Find the KK 4 or the DE 5 yet?

[Glen Canaday]

I count 5 in the first pic and 2 in the second counting the woodie. The KK4 and the two baileys, the Fulton (is a Sargent 409) and the Craftsman (also a Sargent 409) in the first pic, and the DE 5 and the woodie in the second.

Total cash outlay ; guessing $35 if you're at a flea market, $60 at an area meet, $20 max at garage sale.

So how far off am I?

[Glen Canaday]

Hey to respond to that old first post, the Dunlap 3DBB, 4DBB, and 5DBB were made by Millers Falls. They're the offbrand Dunlaps you want. The rest...yeesh.

[steven c newman]

That KK 4 was listed as $40.....just to give an idea. I think the DE 5 was about the same. Place was the Labor Day Tractor Fest in West Liberty, OH. pictures were from 2 years ago. Had a few "better" planes this year....
350041
Except someone thought these were Gold plated...
350042
That Ohio Tool Co. 0-8c was listed as $110..firm.
I did manage to get a decent brace, though..
350043
Keen Kutter 6" brace(nee Millers Falls) I think I got it for...$25 or so...

[Jim Koepke]

Hey to respond to that old first post, the Dunlap 3DBB, 4DBB, and 5DBB were made by Millers Falls. They're the offbrand Dunlaps you want. The rest...yeesh.

I have the 3DBB. It works almost as nice as either of my Stanley/Bailey #3s.

jtk

[Glen Canaday]

That KK 4 was listed as $40.....just to give an idea. I think the DE 5 was about the same. Place was the Labor Day Tractor Fest in West Liberty, OH. pictures were from 2 years ago. Had a few "better" planes this year....
350041
Except someone thought these were Gold plated...
350042
That Ohio Tool Co. 0-8c was listed as $110..firm.
I did manage to get a decent brace, though..
350043
Keen Kutter 6" brace(nee Millers Falls) I think I got it for...$25 or so...

I have one of those in 12". It's a Zenith, but I don't know for sure who made it. I have a Bonney's patent hollow auger that only fits in it, because it's got that Fray chuck with its giant jaws and the shank on the auger is right around 1/2" thick, maybe a tad bigger.

So my pricing had me leaving the meet empty-handed. Not the first time. But it also likely left the seller dragging the planes in tow behind him on HIS way home ;) I was more curious if I missed a decent plane!

I don't have a 3DBB, but I do have a Fulton 3709, which is identical save for the name and the paint. I love that thing, and they've both got that Millers Falls steel. No worries of dulling that iron on the first pass, nope.

[steven c newman]

Of all the planes I had come through the shop...I have never had one by MIllers Falls that ever chattered. Just something about them, making them chatter free.

That set of auger bits near the 0-8c......he wanted $40 for them.

In the first picture, that #5 was @$45, the other two were around $25, as was the drawknife. Mostly the same vendors show up each Labor Day. I walked almost 4 miles, while doing a two day shopping trip there...look closely...you might spot a Stanley #80 sitting nearby...
350049
Would one of these fit?

[Glen Canaday]

I've never had any quality plane chatter. The only planes that ever did are the Sears planes with the U-shaped bent lateral adjusters. The steel on those is garbage, and the bottom of the frog can be up to an inch from the sole of the plane which prevents a user from narrowing the mouth any. Incidentally that brings us back full circle - the offending planes were a grey and red Craftsman and a Dunlap #3.

With a Stanley iron in it, the Dunlap at least made two shavings in a row, but the Craftsman jointer and jack that I have are pig iron for when I have time to learn to cast. The steel actually TURNED when I tried to square an edge on construction pine! No wonder power tool sales took off in the 50s and 60s.

[george wilson]

"When the stranger walked among them,no one gave him any lip. For the stranger carried a PIG IRON in a holster on his hip!!!" A slightly modified version of an old Marty Robbins Western song. "The gunfighter,I think" :)

But,really,would you mess with a guy who had a 500# pig iron on his hip???? :) :) :)

[steven c newman]

Yep....All the planes sitting out there those days...were either way too over-priced, or not worth the effort to even pick up to look at. I knew that a certain brace would be there, so I went after it. Wound up with a few other small items, too. The fellow had a stash of hammers sitting around, and even an anvil or two..
350062
But, like a lot of the items there, there was always something wrong..
350064
Nice wood barrel, but..it was EMPTY!
350065
Nice vise, but they forgot the bench...

I plan on going there again, next year...

[Glen Canaday]

An empty JD barrel? I suppose it's cheaper to ship that way... ;)