Difference between Dye-Sub and CLTT

[Scott Shepherd]

I thought I was all ready to jump into dye sub, but I'm having second thoughts now. I'm thinking that CLTT might be a better fit for my business needs.

All I know about CLTT is what Larry Bratton has said on this forum. I have a need to have things printed on metal as well as on plastic. Seems like CLTT will do that?

Any insight into anything you can or can't do with one or the other?

[Mike Null]

I have done both for some time. CLT for about 7 years and dye sub for about 2. I just sold my dye sub equipment and will outsource that.

I think there are several threads relating to this subject but to me CLT is clearly superior for most of my applications due to the fact that I am pretty much unlimited by substrate. I also have virtually no mis-runs.

With dye sub the opposite is true. The advantage of dye sub is in the intensity of the color and the wear-ability of the image. The substrates are limited and expensive as are the supplies. There is a much higher reject rate as well.

[Scott Shepherd]

Thanks Mike. My only concern is that dye sub seems like you can get a wide range of inexpensive wider format printers, where as I haven't see too many people mentioning anything other than 8 1/2" wide CLT systems.

How's that work? I can see myself doing a lot of work that's 12" x 12" or 12" x 18". Can you do larger work with these systems are you stuck with the 8 1/2" wide format?

I'm going to a big show next month, so hopefully I can pick something out there (and get the show discount as well ;) ).

[Mike Null]

That is something of a problem but you may be able to use two sheets for one image. The only place that has been an issue with me is on some t-shirt transfers.

I use CLT for name tags, brass or brushed metal plates and some t-shirts. In the case of brass metal I am able to get a good black image to match some older processes. You can't get brass sublimation metal only brass colored aluminum.

[bruce cain]

You can get a good black on engraving brass using dye-sub. You don't have to use the alum.
I have been doing dye-sub since 2001 and CLTT since 2005 and I prefer to use dye-sub.
Dye-sub materials are more expensive but I have very few rejects and I tend to charge a little more for full color work.
I like being able to leave the heat press at 375 to 400 degrees without changing due to different substrates.
Not having to remember to peel hot or cold.
BUT I have done some nice stuff with the CLTT. I just think it is more work so I will do most of mine using dye-sub. I think it depends on how much effort you put in learning the system. Depends on what kind of business you want to get into.

[Mike Null]

Are you using toner or ink for dye sub?

[bruce cain]

I use ink for dye sub.

[Scott Shepherd]

Can you do thin stuff with both? I'm looking at a job that appears to be some clear mylar like stencil material and it has black letters on it

My guess is that it's about .015"-.020" thick clear material. Would one process be better than the other for putting 3/4" tall black text on that type material? (Might not be mylar, but it's a thin, flimsy film)

[Larry Bratton]

Scott:
The CLTT process works very well. I tried it on metal, engraving plastic, wood, and even some leather. If your just looking to something like that on a small basis, that would probably be the way to go. I understand that the investment in dye/sub printers and ink is pretty pricey. You can get into CLTT for the cost of a laser printer and a heat press.
As you know, I kind of left that by the wayside and got back into wide format ink jet printing. I find there is more demand for that than the CLTT stuff.

[bruce cain]

Both systems will do it, but with dye-sub you are limited because of finding the material that will accept the ink. And it has to be able to withstand the higher heat for dye-sub pressing.
What about Vinyl graphics?

[Scott Shepherd]

Vinyl won't work. It's for an existing massive building that has probably 50-100 directories in it. Every single directory uses this clear strip with black letters. I looked very close and it's not vinyl. Not sure what it is, but it's not vinyl. Could be as simple as black ink or toner printed on a piece of transparency film (just thought of that- way too obvious).

The detail is just razor sharp on it for small letters. It's also long rows of text, so it'd take me more time to weed it and apply it than would be worth the time. I'm guessing it's a $15 item. I know I can't cut, weed, transfer tape, and apply a long row of text for that.

[Matt Wheeler]

I have never done CLTT, but have been doing dye-sub since 1993. The longer I have done it, the more I wish I could quit doing it. The printers are throw-away items, the new formulated inks won't produce same colors, so there is always a revamp on palettes to try to get something to match older jobs. Over the last couple years I have been moving farther away from it as a core part of the business.

[AL Ursich]

I picked up some wooden Business cards from Lee Valley was going to Laser them. Had the Sublimation Press on doing some Fire Dept Accountability Tags and tried CLTT on the Wood.

Fair to poor results I waited until the press was about 320 degrees.

What time and temp would you do them at? Using Cactus paper.

Thanks,

AL

Lee #99W8905


I peeled while it was warm. The image lifted on the right side. It was a 3 week old print too, if that makes a difference.

[AL Ursich]

As per my post on the cleaning tricks for Dye Sub, in a word the difference.... "Plugged"..... And it plugged 70 name tags into the 117 or so Red ones I was doing for a order of 300 tags....

AL

[Keith Outten]

Vinyl won't work. It's for an existing massive building that has probably 50-100 directories in it. Every single directory uses this clear strip with black letters. I looked very close and it's not vinyl. Not sure what it is, but it's not vinyl. Could be as simple as black ink or toner printed on a piece of transparency film (just thought of that- way too obvious).

The detail is just razor sharp on it for small letters. It's also long rows of text, so it'd take me more time to weed it and apply it than would be worth the time. I'm guessing it's a $15 item. I know I can't cut, weed, transfer tape, and apply a long row of text for that.

Scott,

I know its been awhile since your post but I ran into the same situation at CNU when we needed to make changes to our building directories. After some research I found out the the film that was used was part of a Gerber system. The Gerber printer prints directly onto a mylar type of film and the machine is a bit expensive....$50,000.00 was the price I was quoted.

I replaced all of the directory sliders with laser lights so the colors would match and we can now replace them inexpensively anytime the need arises.

.

[Ian Rankin]

Perhaps they were printed on a Gerber Edge system onto Lexedge or similar material.
Regards
Ian Rankin