Planning to take the plunge with a Redsail M500

[Harry Giani]

Hi

I have been lurking on this board and learning from all you great people for some months now. I have rarely found such a friendly and helpful community online. Kudos to everyone here.

Anyway, I am now planning to buy my first laser now. I have my eyes set on the Redsail M500. I have been corresponding with Sara at Redsail and she has given me a quote for USD2250 USD (FOB Qingdao) for one unit of the M500 laser.

Is anyone using this particular model? I'd appreciate any first hand user review / critique which might prevent me from making a complete ass of myself in my first laser weilding experience.

Also, I have been quoted USD190 for a spare 50W laser tube. Does it make sense to buy one simultaneously?

Cheers

Harry

[Mitchell Andrus]

Welcome, Harry

Is that supposed to be an entire 50W unit for $2,250.00 - and a new spare tube for $190.00??? I'd be very very cautious. Most of us can't buy a replacement tube for less than 2 grand, let alone a new machine.

You've seen one actually work - a LIVE demo?

Anytime I prepare to buy something like this, I pretend it stopped working and smoke is pouring out of it. What do you do now? Where's the nearest repair guy? How long have they been in business? Call them and ask what parts they have on hand and what's their policy on fixing/warranty/labor charges.

I found this: http://www.redsailusa.com/lasers.htm

A thread to watch: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=64830

You might also find the CNCZone forum and poke around.

[William Johanson]

Harry, I have an M-500 from Redsail. I purchased about 2 months ago. I also have a Pinnacle and I used to have an LMI engraving laser. Here is my opinion of the M-500 and Redsail. First off the price is very good, The price you are being quoted probably does not include shipping so be aware of that. I bought mine thru an importer in the states so I didn't have to worry about that part of it and it cost me about $3000USD.
The

[William Johanson]

To Continue:
Harry, I have an M-500 from Redsail. I purchased about 2 months ago. I also have a Pinnacle and I used to have an LMI engraving laser. Here is my opinion of the M-500 and Redsail. First off the price is very good, The price you are being quoted probably does not include shipping so be aware of that. I bought mine thru an importer in the states so I didn't have to worry about that part of it and it cost me about $3000USD.
The Machine arrived crated well and everything seemed to be accounted for except the manuals. I had not recieved any hardcopy manuals. While exploring the various parts I found a bag with 2 CD's so I opened them. There were several manuals and software packages on the disk (none of which said M-500) so i started trying everything. The setup on the machine was fairly straight forward. There are a couple of videos on the CD that help a little. With a lot of guessing and trying I finally had the machine put together and the most logical software package installed within about 4 hours. I aligned the beam and everything appeared to be working. Then I pushed the Datum button and the head took off to the top right corner and hit the hard stop and kept grinding until I shut the machine down. I tried this several times and finally gave up. I engraved something the first night and it turned out looking horrible.
So I went to bed the first night somewhat optimistic that once I got the settings tweaked everything would be good. I started calling the importer the next day who knows nothing about lasers so I called redsail and started talking to a guy named Leo. He was very nice but not much help. Leo said he would get me in touch with there tech support. So I waited about a week during this time I was trying to get help from anybody who had any ideas. Finally redsail contacted me via e-mail. We started trying to diagnose the problems but this was very slow and frustrating as the language and the time difference really made things difficult. I finally recieved some software setting from Redsail which really improved the quality of the engraving. But I still had the homing problem. Finally after 2 months and countless hours of experimenting we finally figured out that my machine was wired incorrectly from the factory and once I switched some wires on the stepper motors everything now appears to be working well. So Overall I have mixed feeling about this machine. I hate the software, It will only take 2-bit images there is no grey scale or 3d etching which I had on my old 1995 LMI engraver. It is also difficult to get the software to do what you want and with little to no direction it can get very frustrating. The machine itself is acceptable but looks cheap in comparison to other higher cost machines. (for instance I have some paint startng to chip off of mine in 1 area, its not powdercoated like most machines ive seen) But on the positive side it is very well priced. It seems to run well. I am getting better and better results as I learn to tweak the settings and manipulate the software. All in all I would have to say I am satisfied. If you need something to work immediately out of the crate STAY AWAY from this machine, If you have very little experience with lasers or NC equipment STAY AWAY FROM THIS MACHINE. If you enjoy a challenge and really want to get to know your machine from the inside out this would probably be a good machine for you. If this is all you can afford and really want to get into laser engraving I say go for it but be prepared for a lot of frustration and time investment to get this machine running like it should. If you decide to take the plunge keep me in mind I could probably help with the learning curve. Good Luck

[Mohammed Hasham]

Hi William,

I have the M500 as well. I talked to Leo but you are right he has no idea. I got my M500 to work as well but very fustrating. Mine cost me $3,500 and I'm going to end up selling it. It works fine but I really want an epilog mini. Would be able to send me what setting you got from redsail to make the settings better and how to fix the home position. I made these ornaments from the M500. My e-mail address is 786speedy@sympatico.ca.

[William Johanson]

Hi Mohammed, I have e-mailed you the settings I recieved. Are you having trouble with your machine homing when you push the Datum Button as well? If so I may be able to help you with that as well. Let me know,

Bill

[William Johanson]

Mohammed, Your e-mail got bounced back to me. Forward your e-mail to me on PM and I will get you any info I can,

Bill

[Mohammed Hasham]

Hi William,

Please try the same e-mail again. Yes, I'm having problems with the home position.

Thanks for all your help.

Mohammed

[William Johanson]

I sent it again just now, Hopefully it goes thru,

Bill

[William Johanson]

I am glad these settings helped you Mohammed. I sent you an e-mail but I thought I would copy it here so others could see.

The settings I use the most are the Scan Gap, which is essentially the DPI setting. It’s a simple mathematical equation:

Scangap = 25.4/DPI

or

DPI = 25.4/Scangap

so


100 DPI = .254 Scan Gap

200 DPI = .127 Scan Gap

300 DPI = .0847 Scan Gap

600 DPI= .042 Scan Gap

etc.


I use whatever Scangap (or DPI) that I saved my .BMP file as in Photograv.

I hope this makes sense?

The other most important setting I use is the Backlash setting. As you use higher speeds you must adjust your backlash to maintain even crisp lines in your etching. I usually do not go over 300 mm/s as the Scan Gap settings make more difference in the overall time it takes to complete an engraving than raising the speed does. Going above 300 mm/sec doesn't speed up engraving time significantly and makes things more difficult to keep good quality. Here are the settings I use for backlash.

Speed 650+ = -.04 Backlash
Speed 550-650 = -.035 Backlash
Speed 450 - 550 = -.032
Speed 350 - 450 = -.3 Backlash
Speed 300 = .25 Backlash
etc.

These seem to work for my machine, You will have to experiment and find what works for yours but it should be close.

Let me know if I can be of any more assisstance and let me know how these settings work

Bill

[David Hirschfield]

Hi

I have been lurking on this board and learning from all you great people for some months now. I have rarely found such a friendly and helpful community online. Kudos to everyone here.

Anyway, I am now planning to buy my first laser now. I have my eyes set on the Redsail M500. I have been corresponding with Sara at Redsail and she has given me a quote for USD2250 USD (FOB Qingdao) for one unit of the M500 laser.

Is anyone using this particular model? I'd appreciate any first hand user review / critique which might prevent me from making a complete ass of myself in my first laser weilding experience.

Also, I have been quoted USD190 for a spare 50W laser tube. Does it make sense to buy one simultaneously?

Cheers

Harry

Hi Harry,

I have a Chinese built laser that I bought from Rabbit Laser, hxlaser.com about 10 months ago and have had a good experience. The model I bought is the HX6090SE. Yes, there were some adjustments to make and I had to work out how to align the laser but all in all it has been a positive experience. The case is a bit rough in terms of fit and finish but it all works well. I did tighten a few bolts that loosened in shipping. The rails and linear sealed bearings are made in Taiwan and the internal working parts seem to be of good quality. I had to tighten a coolant hose and that's about it really. I must say that the manuals are badly written and seem to be direct translations but, with a bit of patience and a couple of emails to their support person, it all worked out well.

The software is LaserCut 5.0 which is a bit rudimentary but actually is quite reliable and intuitive once you get used to it. The machine connects to the PC by USB cable and you have to send the file to the laser and then press "start" in the software. It doesn't use a Windows print driver but to me it's not really a big difference.

Bear in mind that a lot of the people warning you of the sub $5000 Chinese machines have spent more than 4 times that for their lasers. Yes they are more sophisticated and some of the components are more expensive but most of the money spent, I believe, goes towards sustaining the expensive support regimes that are bundled with their lasers. Just think of the relative difference in salaries between China and North America. I always wonder how much a ULS or Trotec would cost if manufactured offshore to the same specs. Substantially less I would venture to say.

Don't get me wrong, support is valuable, but if you are technically minded, you can do a lot of that yourself. Lasers are actually quite simple machines. The electronics are modular similar to assembling a PC. The mechanics are straight forward and adjustable. Laser alignment takes a bit of patience but is not complicated. Worst case for me is a motor or a power supply or control board fries. I can have one Fedexed out and installed within a week. The toughest part is understanding the medium. That is, materials, and laser settings and sequences. That applies to all machines.

My biggest complaint with my laser I suppose is the lack of standardization and quality control. Close up inspection show evidence of variations in the manufacturing process with some of it obviously hand work. The machines have a sort of one-off quality to them, mostly in the case work. It seems they attribute a team to start and finish each machine. In the end, it works but a lot of it is hand built. (Aside: similar to the build quality of the early space program I saw at the Air and Space Museum in DC...lots of rivets and purpose cut parts, a kind of technical fumbling that achieves it's purpose)

The company support rep email me periodically to check how things are going and how the machine is working. An unexpected touch. It seems they are fully aware of the perception of the quality of their products; some earned and some not.

I'm thinking of buying another machine in the future and would seriously consider another of theirs. Just my 2c.