Should my shoulder vise look like this ? ? ?

[Brian Hale]

Just about got the new bench completed but i don't like how the shoulder vise acts; it sorta flops around and looks generally sad :(

The pics i've seen always have the vise jaw sitting vertical. Is this something i can fix?

Brian :confused:

Here's a shot before the shoulder vise was installed.....

[Jason Beam]

Oh sad sad droopy shoulder vise ...

I'm hardly an expert, but couldn't you lay a piece below the guide "tongue" to keep it from twisting? It'd have to be fairly substantial, i'm sure, in order to keep clamping forces from twisting it out of place...

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=73783&d=1192833255

Maybe a place for some steel?

[Brian Hale]

I sorta tried that Jason by attaching a board on the bottom of the front board of the bench (towards the right in that pic) and with about a 1/8" gap the jaw wanted to bind when it opened/closed. The forward tilt of the jaw caused the binding. I've got some 1" x 2" x 24" white nylon and considered mounting it under the walnut block and cutting a corresponding slot in the tongue of the jaw but that's my last piece of 2" oak i have for the jaw. Thought some other opinions might be a good idea before i butchered it....

Thanks!

Brian :)

[Marcus Ward]

You need some Vise-agra! Sorry, a guide block would probably help. I have the same problem with my tail vise. I'm going to dose it with vise-agra (guide block) tomorrow.

[Pam Niedermayer]

I'd put a guide rod in the left side near the rebate and a matching hole in the vise.

Pam

[Brian Hale]

What do you think about this?

The white block will be nylon (really stiff stuff) and could be attached to the side of the leg assembly....

Brian :)

[William Rae]

The top bearer of your base should line up with the right edge of the support block which is the part that goes between the bench top and the shoulder vise arm. The top base bearer and the support block form the groove that the tongue of vise face slides in. The shoulder vise needs to be supported by the base. Maybe you can simply move the base to line up the top bearer with the support block if you haven't built the base too long. I'm assuming that you are building a european cabinetmakers bench as described in the "Workbench Book" by Scott Landis. There is also an article on the same bench by Frank Klausz in FWW #53 P.62 which goes in to more detail. The article also has a photo of the bench top upside down which shows the bottom of the shoulder vise so you'll understand what I'm describing here. Check your local library for the article.

[Brian Hale]

It might hard to see in the pic but the bearer sits about 2" from the edge of the block, in fact the end of the tongue rubs against the bearer. It would be a simple matter to add a guide block to the bearer to form a slot for the tongue to ride in however this bench will need to be taken apart in the near future when the shop moves into its new building.

Since the end of the bearer is mortised into the shoulder of the vise the leg set will need to slide towards the back of the bench for disassembly. If I glue/screw a guide block to the bearer it won't come apart without some radical methods.

That's kinda why i was leaning towards the nylon method.

Another approach would be to attach a guide block to the bottom of the front dog hole board and mortise the other end into the shoulder. This would form the slot for the tongue which I would size appropriately.

I hope some of this makes sense. :confused:

Yes,Ii built myself into a corner....... :o

Brian :)

BTW William, Welcome To The Creek !!!

[andy brown]

Hi,
On this site is an item about a self built work bench-

picnicpark.org

and his shoulder vise shows a similar sag(!).

I think both your bench and the one on the other site are great.. and it seems as if the 'loose' aspect of the shoulder vise means you can clamp off square pieces and so is not a fault. It may be the connecter piece (between the face plate and turnscrew) is a bit too loose and the weight of the faceplate drags it downwards.
Andy
edit--

Here's a link to another site where a pic shows a shaped faceplate to keep the plate vertical !

http://homepage.mac.com/maclif/shopprojects/workbench/Pages/shouldervise.html

A.

[Pam Niedermayer]

Looks like this might work, Brian, if the nylon block is sufficiently stiff to hold the vice more or less in line. Sure should slide smoothly.

Pam

[Louis Bois]

Brian, here's an illustration of what William is describing...and it's how I built my bench as well. I find it works relatively well, but it's not perfect. The vise jaw still moves laterally when being moved back and forth, but that's one of the small "side effects" of having a jaw that can clamp irregular shaped, ie, wedged pieces.

I suspect you could easily retrofit your bench with a similar support and either screw it to the bench/jaw/leg, or alternatively use a cleat screwed to the leg to catch the center of the stretcher. A bit of wax will help things slide along nicely.

ps...nice bench btw!

[Robert Trotter]

Hi Brian, Must admit I don't quite see what you are saying but make sure as Pam says the nylon is stiff enough. It is not just to hold it while you screw it in and out but when you put something in the jaw near the top for example that will transfer a large moment force into the nylon strip and may bend it. Even if it is a little the the nylon may get a permanent bend and then you are back to where you were.

If you use a wood or even metal strip, could you use cam-clamps or similar to hold it on rather than screwing or fixing it permanently. Then it may be easier to pull apart.

But as I said, I can't quite get it.

And maybe it may not look like all the pictures in books etc, but for the work you do, will the more flexible jaw work? It may be better to have a jaw that fits the pieces (sqaure or odd shaped) and gives even pressure across it rather than have a jaw that is perpendicular but gives uneven pressure and adds moment stresses into the mechanism.

Rob.

[Roy Wall]

Brian -

Beautiful bench you have going there....! Looks terrific!

[Brian Hale]

Robert, good point about the jaw pivoting up and down. That's one of the advantages of this vise i want to keep. Perhaps i should just leave it as it is for awhile and see how it works "in the real world".

Andy, thanks for the link! Looking at the second one it seems to me that he ran the grain of the wood block in the wrong direction. Won't seasonal changes make that block expand and push the shoulder vise arm apart? Just a thought.

Thanks for the kind compliments about the bench. I need to start a new thread with a few of the details and some more pics. It's a biggin, 36" x 103" and 32" tall.:cool:

Brian :)

[Zahid Naqvi]

Brian, I meant to ask you this earlier, does the floppy shoulder vise interfere with the operation.

[Brian Hale]

Brian, I meant to ask you this earlier, does the floppy shoulder vise interfere with the operation.

Yes and no. It flops about enough that i need to keep an eye on it to make sure it doesn't bind, however i just extended the inside vertical edge of the jaw to take away some of it's freedom. I'll try it this afternoon.

Brian :)

[andy brown]

Hi,

The 'tooth' seems to me to be a weakness as it could get caught or snagged as the faceplate moves; and if it's loose enough not to get snagged, then what is it actually doing?

I think the answer lies with the connecter between the face plate and the vise thread; it maybe needs an easily adjustable 'nyloc' of some sort so you can let it flop to the degree you want, but if you want it plumb you can set it plumb. Something along the lines of a really sturdy camera tripod head .

It'll be good to see more pics and plans!

Andy.

[John Schreiber]

Brian,

The bench looks absolutely beautiful; it inspires me to get started on mine. I wonder if you might build up the back of the chop so that it bears on the screw itself. Something like a short sleeve bearing that would bear on the un-threaded part of the screw. (quick doodle below) Another option would be to add some weight behind the pivot point so that it would be more balanced and wouldn't be inclined to droop. You would loose some clamping capacity, but it might be manageable.

74127

[Robert Trotter]

Hi Brian,
I'd probably just leave it and use it for a while and see how it works and what parts/actions, if any, you don't like or are really anoying and then have a think.
By the way I just pulled out the "The Workbench Book" to have a gander and on the Klausz shoulder vise he has a "shim" (as stated in the book) on top of the tooth. After thinking about yours and looking at your pictures, maybe it is just that you have a little too much play between the tooth and the support block. enough to allow the jaw to rotate. Maybe for the screw that you are using, there is a little more play so if you add the shim it will tighten up this and reduce the amount that the jaw can rotate. If you try this, maybe use a nice slippery species or really wax it up. or eve use a bit of something atificial. Going for wood maybe lignum or something. But maybe with the right species of shim it will be right with no maintenance. If this works you can play around with the thickness of the shim and balance out the support and jaw rotatation to suit yourself.

An idea.

Robert

[James Tattersall]

Just about got the new bench completed but i don't like how the shoulder vise acts; it sorta flops around and looks generally sad :(

The pics i've seen always have the vise jaw sitting vertical. Is this something i can fix?

Brian :confused:

Here's a shot before the shoulder vise was installed.....

I wonder if adding a little weight to the lower right corner might help.

You could get a handful of used wheel weights (hard lead alloy) at a tire center, and melt them into an undercut recess. Leave it proud and clean it up with a file.

It would not take much of that material to put a 1/4 pound of weight on that corner. I suspect that might put enough force on the other side to push it toward flush, while also keeping it free to move when needed.

If you want to avoid working with lead, plumbing solder is another option.