Cermark ... what is the best way?

[Gregg Vaughn]

My new (and expensive!) jar of Cermark (Thermark) just arrived via UPS. Its still on my work table next to the laser, sitting next to a few stainless steel items to try it out on. I haven't opened it up yet, but it sounds like a liquid.

I've read several of the threads on Cermark/Thermark but I'm not sure what the best method of application is. It does appear that one common technique is to apply it sparingly, just enough to barely cover the surface.

I have 45 watts to burn it with, so that does not seem to be an issue. Does this do better with just an outline, or, will it look good with large filled areas as well?

Does anybody have the "quick guide" to starting out with this, the "Cermark for Dummies" version?

[Mark Plotkin]

Gregg,

Just finished a job of 75 multi tools. I have used a air brush in the past, but used a foam brush this time. I thinned almost four parts Denutured Alcohol to one part cermark. My settings for a 45w were 600dpi,100p,8s.

Good Luck!
MP

[Joe Pelonio]

Gregg,

Just finished a job of 75 multi tools. I have used a air brush in the past, but used a foam brush this time. I thinned almost four parts Denutured Alcohol to one part cermark. My settings for a 45w were 600dpi,100p,8s.

Good Luck!
MP
That's close to my 45 watt settings, the only difference is I went 10 speed.

The trouble with airbrush is the waste when you clean it. I have run denatured alcohol through it and sprayed it into another bottle to save and it used that to thin for the next job.

It seems like a foam brush would work well with little waste. You could wear a glove and squeeze it out after.

[Gary Hair]

I use a small brush for the small jobs and an airbrush for the larger ones. There is some loss cleaning the airbrush, as Joe mentioned, but on the larger jobs it's such a small proportion that I don't worry about it. The best thing about airbrushing is that you get a very even coat and it is probably much thinner than brushing.

Gary

[Gregg Vaughn]

Thanks ... I think I'll try to foam brush route and see what I get.

[Frank Corker]

I'm suprised at the low speed that you use, I generally use the recommended 30 speed 100 power at 600 dpi and never had any problems with it

[Sean Weir]

Hello Greg,

The foam brush technique works fine, just try to coat with as thin a layer as possible. Thin a small amount of material with ethanol to apply it, try to apply a smooth thin coat in one stroke of the brush. If you allow the part to air dry any streaks that may be in the wet coating should flow and level during drying.

Airbrushing is excellent if you will be doing a larger number of items. It will give you a very consistent, light coating. You might waste a small amount, but you save a lot of time over brushing if you have a lot of parts to mark.

I've attached some literature that may help you too, there is also some info in the thread http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=62406. If you have any other questions, please feel free to contact me.

Sean

[Paul Brinkmeyer]

Great information, Made a SS plate for a softball player yesterday using the spray.
I had found the same info searching this forum, followed it with a few samples that the jewlery guy next door could not get off, then made the SS plate and the plate turned out great.

Sean, do you have information on the LMC-6044 for glass?

Thanks again.

[Bill Cunningham]

I don't do a lot of stainless, so I bought a can of the spray stuff last year.. Still using it.. If your fast and careful, you can get a thin spray coat, but there is more over spray and waste. Also you have to hold the can upside down after each use to clear the nozzle or it will clog.. I usually spray the clearing cycle into a bottle, and save it. That way if I decide to get a airbrush for a larger job, I will scavenge it from the bottle then.. Mostly I just do the occasional small custom panels for machines..

[Linda Creatore]

Hi,

I have some questions about cleaning and readying metals for Cermarc.

How can I make sure the metal is "clean" for marking?

For example, I have cake pans with covers to engrave. Some are colored enamel, which can just be engraved as is, and some are the original metal (aluminum, I think), but may have some kind of protective coating on it.

Also, have some SS flasks that are very shiny...maybe they have a coating of some sorr?

What about SS, silver, gold, rhodium jewelry? SS charm bracelet links?

How do I get them ready for Cermarc and engraving?

Thanks
Linda

[Sean Weir]

Hello Paul,

Attached is literature on the LMC-6044. The ceramic and glass marking materials are very different than the metal marking material in two key ways:

1. Amount to apply

You'll need to apply a much heavier coat of the glass and ceramic marking material than you do with the metal marking material. Apply about the thickness of a good coat of housepaint to achieve best results. This can be approximated fairly easily on glass. Hold the glass up to a strong light after coating. You should apply enough coating to cut off the light from shining through.


2. Power settings

You'll need to use different power settings for the ceramic and glass marking materials. Lower powers and slower speeds work best. For a 35 watt CO2 laser using LMC-6044 we would recommend something like 10-20% power at 5-15% writing speed. you may need to experiment to get the best results, the settings will vary depending on the application thickness and the substrate being marked.

I hope this info helps, please let me know if you have any other questions.

Sean

[Sean Weir]

Hello Linda,

Usually just wiping with solvent, like alcohol or acetone, will be enough to clean your bare metal items. You just need to make sure any dirt or oils that might be remaining from machining or manufacture are removed.

Coated items are another story. Any type of protective coating interferes with our material's ability to bond to the metal. You'll have to make sure you are marking on bare metal. Sometimes you may be able to find out from your supplier if it is coated or not.

If you can't, you'll need to check for yourself if the metal is coated. We always recommend experimenting on a test piece if possible. This can often save a lot of headache and is usually worth the cost of the test piece. Something that appears very glossy usually will have a protective coating on it. Some of these coatings can be removed with acetone or alcohol. Some of the tougher ones may require paint stripper, which you should be able to find at a Home Depot or Lowe's.

Sometimes you can just burn the coating off with the laser. If you can register the part in you machine accurately, you can run the job once to burn the coating off, then coat the part with CerMark and run it again to bond the CerMark. Not all coatings are created equally though, some won't burn off well with the laser!

Using a test piece is also helpful for determining optimum power settings. You'll use the piece not only to find out if there is coating on it or not, but also to decide what power settings will give you the best mark.

Please let me know if you have any other questions, I'd be happy to help!

Regards,

Sean

[Paul Brinkmeyer]

Thanks.

Now I know why my glass marking just did not look right.
applied wrong, and too much power.

I will need to get a small airbrush and try this again.

[Linda Creatore]

Thanks!

What kind of tiles can be used? such as the shiny 4x4s, or do we need some kind of matte finish, tumbled, etc?

Thanks,
Linda

[Sean Weir]

Hello Linda,

We have had good results on just about any tile you can buy from Home Depot or Lowe's. You will get a different look with the different tile finishes, marks on the the matte or pebbled looking type tiles will look less glossy than the smooth finish. Power and speed settings may be slightly different on the different tiles, so you might need to do a test tile to see what looks best.

Best regards,

Sean

[Linda Creatore]

Hi Sean,

Are the images bonded into the surface of the tiles? Any kind of tile, even the shiny, glazed ones?

Thanks,
Linda

[Stephen Beckham]

Not sure if you guys have a Tractor Supply Company local, but ours had several of those mini airbrush sprayer kits for $6. It was everything you need to start doing touch-ups etc... It has a container about the size of a small baby food jar...

I can't find them on their website, but I'm going to get one the next time I'm in 'town.'

Steve