I'm always off!

[Jared Cuneo]

No matter how diligent I am with milling my starting pieces and attention to detail, I always seem to wind up 1/32 or even 1/16 off at least one point in my projects. When I check for squareness, everything is on, and lengths and widths add up, but its just enough to be very annoying.

Will I ever get better at this? Noone notices, and you can't visually tell my pieces are off, but I'm getting weary of always having to plane a little here or there to get edges to line up etc....

Is there hope for me?!

JC

[Stan Welborn]

Heck I'm just happy if I don't read the rule wrong and cut an inch short.:D

[Richard Magbanua]

Are you kidding? If everything were perfect, I wouldn't have a need to play with all the extra "toys". No more belt sanders, chisels, vintage planes, flush trim router bits, spindle sander (oscillating, of course), and any other new and improved or proven and expensive obsession of the month. And if, after all of our money is gone, things still don't line up perfectly, well, that's what we call "custom, hand-made furniture."

In other words, I have the same problems. I've read though that wood is dynamic and always changes in ways we can't always predict. Cut a bit here or there and internal stresses take over and it does what it wants unlike working with plastics or metals. I think I'm getting a bit better in both my accuracy and my ability to say, "oh well, time to use my old handplane I've been trying to tune up." or, "I wonder if I can buy another new router bit to clean that up". I'm still very new to this but, because of such inconsistencies, I'm learning and enjoing it more and more every day.

Good luck!

[glenn bradley]

This stuff is hand made you know? We are not machines. You may want to look at your methods. I rarely cut a lot of pieces ahead on a project. I dry fit and adjust as I go. I probably make a 64th of an adjustment here and a 32nd there throughout the project. If I made all the pieces per the cut list and then just assembled them I would be much farther off than you are talking about. Just an idea.

[Robert Waddell]

Glenn is dead on in his comments. Make the parts to fit as you need them for assembly. If you get in the habit of measuring with a steel ruler, cutting each piece just a little heavy and trimming to fit your end result will be better. Don't beat yourself up over it though. Wood is an imperfect substrate and hence nothing done with it can ever be 100% perfect. Most important is to have fun working with it.
Rob

[Hubert Carle]

Besides all that this is WOOD as soon as you cut it and a new surface is exposed it will CHANGE! :D:D:eek::eek:

[Bill Brehme]

I'm glad you posted this! I thought I was the only one w/ this problem. It's gotten to the point where I was starting to hate the milling process.:mad: I kinda have to mill all/most of my pieces as per cutlist as I have to rearrange my shop every time I go back to milling (pull the mower out, move tables etc).
My latest approach is: TURN A GLASS EYE TO IT!!!;)

Whats the saying? PERCEPTION IS REALITY! :cool: ...If it LOOKS good it IS good...

[Randall Frey]

Yes, it can be frustrating when things are a bit off. Woodworking can be very humbling at times (which it sounds like you hit one of those times). No worries, time and pacients will prevail. I can offer this, Make absolutely sure all of your tools are dead on with alignment and all cutters are sharpened correctly. There are many books out there that explain how to achieve this. I've pulled my hair out many of time wondering why things don't come out right. It is amazing how a few thousandths misalignment can transmit into bad results. I once made a planer sled which allowed me to surface material too wide to fit on my jointer, I just could not get good results. I had just thrown the noose over the rafters when I thought, Let's put new blades in the planer, bam, that did it. Good luck

[John Mihich]

As an experiment cut 4 peices of wood one day - make sure they are exactly the same. Wait a few days and check - I would bet at least one piece is off in size. It's kind of the nature of the beast. It could be as simple as saw dust getting between the fence and the board, not paying attention to the board against the fence, miss measuring (never have done that myself :) ), the list can go on. If you use a miter guage they aren't perfuct either, there's got to be a little movement otherwise it wouldn't slide.

The best you can do is keep at it. Do you get better with experience. I'll let you know when that happens. :) Been at this a long time and have cut a few board and it still happens.

[Chet Kagel]

Whenever I'm milling wood and the dimension is critical to me, I measure it with a pair of calipers instead of trying to read a rule. I was shown this technique by a craftsman who meticulously repairs classic wood boats. There is still variation due to all the reasons mentioned in the previous posts but I'm now satisfied with the results.:)

[Per Swenson]

I dunno,

Nothing is perfect.

But, I do have two words of advice.

STORY STICK

Per :D

[Al Willits]

Join the club, been at this insanity for little over a year now and I finally figured out how to get a cabinet square, well, once I did..
I taken to cutting a bit long a trimming to size, seems if I cut a plan to stated dimensions and try to assemble, I'm off.

Also we are our own worse enemy, while your agonizing over how off something is, ask the wife/girlfriend/boyfriend/neighbor/drug dealer down the block or anyone else, to come look.
Chances are they will think its fine.

This is not a hobby for someone with out patience imho

Good luck and it'll come, just keep at it.

Al

[Brian Weick]

that,s not unfamiliar-check your adjustments ,watch your feed is going in smoothly and your not drawing the board laterally when feeding. Just the nature of woodworking.
Brian

[Jim Becker]

In addition to the sage advice of taking actual measurements off your project for components, working with "story sticks" is another way to keep things together. You should also avoid using too many measuring devices...and avoid a tape measure if at all possible. I largely use a "matched" set of steel rules from Lee Valley whenever I can to insure consistency...the shortest is 6" and the longest is 36" which covers a lot of ground during project time. (These rules, although not a "real" matched set are dead-on with each other from a precision standpoint.

Oh, and don't trust that the fence rule on your saw is exact, especially as you get to longer measurements. Stick on tapes can be "stretched"...

[Don Bullock]

No matter how diligent I am with milling my starting pieces and attention to detail, I always seem to wind up 1/32 or even 1/16 off at least one point in my projects. ...
JC

JC, I feel your pain, but as others have said, nothing is perfect especially when working with wood. Per's idea of using a "story stick" has a lot of merit. Even one of those is subject to shrinking and expanding.;) I'm just happy if the results of my work look good.:D

[Chris Foley]

I have heard in the past that you should have the story stick made of the exact same type of wood as the project you working on. That way, as the wood changes with temperature and humidity, the story stick would still remain consistant on the relative dimensions. Is this accurate?

[Jim Becker]

That makes logical sense, Chris...but I just use scrap poplar for my story sticks. I keep the narrow rips left over from "whatever" specifically for that purpose.

[Gary Keedwell]

For repetitive parts, stops are a must. Like someone mentioned, make sure no sawdust between stop and stock.
Squareness. Cannot be over- emphasized.
Miter slot sloppiness. Cannot have runners "floating" down the slots when stock passes through your blade. I modified all my miter runners by installing spring plungers so my runner rubs on one side of slot ONLY.
I believe if you make the basic fundamentals a daily regimen, the rest will fall in place.
Take a few minutes periodically to check your miters, fences, blades etc.
Sure, it is fun to just start up your machines and make piles of sawdust, but if your equipment is not tuned right, it will show in the final product.:)
IMNSHO
Gary

[John Thompson]

Excellent advice given... Wood moves before you assemble and wood moves after you assemble.... it's Wood, not metal!

One more time.. story sticks and stop blocks. IMO, to pin-point the main difference between an apprentice and craftsman involves learning how to take care of and manage the results of knowing that "wood moves"...

Sarge..

[Paul Hendrickson]

I don't understand it, I keep on sanding and sanding, and it is still too short. You would think I would finally figure it out?

My first project had a printer shelf that I cut too short. No problem, I have one left over piece of plywood that I can use in it's place. So I measure, and it will work, but it will be shorter front to back. So I begin to measure and cut (at the time I only had a circular saw, so it took awhile) and after I cut it, I realize that I used the front to back measurement. It was exactly what size I measured, but I used the wrong measurement. To this day, that shelf has the one inch added back on using scrap pieces. Still looks funny, but still holding.

Years later, I built a futon from online plans. It used routed channels for the lowering and raising of the bed to couch. When it all went together, and actually worked, everyone was amazed, but no one more than I.

1/32nd smaller is nothing. Wait until you finish the second armrest, and realize that you have two beautiful and perfectly measured left armrests! :D

Paul

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

1/32 ? Raise or lower the humidity and that'll fix it.

[Gary Keedwell]

1/32 ? Raise or lower the humidity and that'll fix it.
I wish I had a dollar for each time wood movement is blamed for operator error.:D
Gary

[Mike Vermeil]

With each project, take mental notes of where the inaccuracies are coming from. The more you work, the more causes you'll find, and consequently the more you'll be able to avoid with proper design, machining and measuring techniques. It took me a good four years of casual woodworking to get to a level of accruacy I was happy with, but I continue to try to improve with each project.

Here's a list of some of the causes I ran into:

1) poor machine technique due to infamiliarity with machine and/or technique.
2) solid wood stock thickness inaccuracy and variation.
3) plywood thickness variation between sheets and within the same sheet.
4) poor project design/tolerance stack-ups (overall measurements dependent on too many individual pieces and joints).
5) poor decisions on reference surfaces of projects and individual pieces within the projects.
6) not compensating properly for actual (as opposed to design) sizes of mating pieces within a project.
7) low quality equipment giving inconsistent results.

That's just some that I've run across. How you correct them will depend on your tools, techniques and working preferences. Have fun!

[Basil Rathbone]

Perhaps this may be a good time to get a little info on "Story Sticks",what they are and how they are used.

I have seen the term used a few times and would like to know more about them.

[Jim Becker]

Perhaps this may be a good time to get a little info on "Story Sticks",what they are and how they are used.

I have seen the term used a few times and would like to know more about them.

Quite simply it's a...stick (or could even be a piece of card stock)...that you mark up with the locations of your joinery and details once and then use to mark up the individual components for your project. This means that, for example, all four corners will be marked up identically. You are, in effect, transferring your "plan" to the story stick so it's directly usable for layout. You might do this for just a complicated portion of a project or make one or more story sticks that detail the whole project. Their use eliminates errors caused by using different measuring tools and also helps you work out anything that you are not just sure about. Combining their use with some simple mock-ups can really kick project quality up a notch...

[Gary Keedwell]

Quite simply it's a...stick (or could even be a piece of card stock)...that you mark up with the locations of your joinery and details once and then use to mark up the individual components for your project. This means that, for example, all four corners will be marked up identically. You are, in effect, transferring your "plan" to the story stick so it's directly usable for layout. You might do this for just a complicated portion of a project or make one or more story sticks that detail the whole project. Their use eliminates errors caused by using different measuring tools and also helps you work out anything that you are not just sure about. Combining their use with some simple mock-ups can really kick project quality up a notch...
I don't use the method, myself, but maybe it could help some people. As a machinist in my other life, it kinda goes against my way of thinking, though. I have used mock-ups to give me a visual perspective, though.
Gary

[Jim Becker]

Gary, I actually find that story sticks ultimately save time and reduces errors.
Yes, you spend a little time making them, but things stay consistent after that.

[Per Swenson]

Sorry,

1 stick, one measurement.

Lets say we are making raised panel doors for Mrs McGillicuddy.

30 of them. Same size.

6 sticks.

If we are doing this fo da big money...

I make them out of 3/4 pvc pipe, and when we are done they are labeled

with customer name and date, so if heaven forbid Mr Mcgillicuddy

during one of his Saturday night rages kicks one in....

I only have to go there once to install it.

Per:eek:

That would be 2 for the rail

2 for the stile

2 for the panel......L x W

P.

[Per Swenson]

One more thing....

I save shaper pieces for cutter height to use as set up blocks.

labeled 'n' dated.

Life is to short to shoot craps.

per

[Per Swenson]

Oh Yeah,

Base cab face frames.

The ones with the drawers.

In the back room I have premade 24, 28, 30, 32 and 36.

One of each. Whip one out copy it quick.

Folks its not our skills or lack of that gets us/me in trouble,

its memory and the thinking part.

Per

[Gary Keedwell]

Gary, I actually find that story sticks ultimately save time and reduces errors.
Yes, you spend a little time making them, but things stay consistent after that.
Well Jim, whatever works for you. Actually, there is one application where I do use it. When I do an inside measurement, I have one of those old wooden folding sticks that has a metal rule that slides out. That is great for transferring measurements.
Basically, I'm not worried about measurements in furniture making. Like I mentioned earlier, it is methods that mean the most to me.
Say that I want 4 legs 17" long. I don't really care that the 17" is right on, I care that all 4 will be the same length. To get them the same length I will set it up with a stop and do them all the same time.
Actually, there is more then one way to skin a cat...I think consistency and good methods isimportant for good results.:)
Gary

[Per Swenson]

Gary sez...
"Say that I want 4 legs 17" long. I don't really care that the 17" is right on, I care that all 4 will be the same length. To get them the same length I will set it up with a stop and do them all the same time."


We are saying the same thing.

stick to set the stop.

Per

[Gary Keedwell]

Well, I'm glad were on the same sheet of music. Per...You got a very good point. As my memory starts slipping the story stick method is gonna be for me. I used it alot when I cedar shingled my house a few years ago.
Regards,
Gary