Advice on buying old planes

[Tom Henry]

OK...here goes nothing...I need a crash course in what I need to look for when buying old hand planes. :confused: Please help!!!

[Alex Carrera]

First, check out Patrick Leach's "Blood and Gore" site. After that, be sure to look for excessive mouth opening, cracks around the mouth and elsewhere on the body, heavy pitting on the blade, and damaged totes. The only thing I really care about is the mouth and cracking on the plane body and bad pitting on the body or blade. Everything else can be remedied to make it a user.

[Zahid Naqvi]

I am going to go out on a limb and say this: if you have to ask this question I can assume you do not have too much experience with old tools and rehabbing them. Beware this can become a hobby in itself, this old tool restoring thing.

Primarily there are two schools of thought in this context. Those who are into tools just for the sake of tools (like 'em, collect 'em, resell 'em etc.) and those who need tools and go the old tool route to buy restore and personally use them. What you will look for will depend on what your intended use is. I fall in the later category hence can't comment on the collecting side. What I look for is lack of rust, must be more than 50 yrs old, no welding or similar signs of repair, the business end of the blade must be free of pitting. Most importantly I found a local WWer who falls in the first category and is very knowledgeable in tools. When I need something I just ask him and he either has something within my price range or can find something.

The first few planes I just bought without any knowledge of them, but the process of dismantling and cleaning/tuning the planes taught me a lot on what to look for and what to avoid. One thing I would recommend is to start with smaller planes (block or smooth) they are much easier to tune.

[Danny Thompson]

Tom,

I just bought my 1st old plane--an Stanley Bailey #4 on "the eBay". It was difficult to tell what distinguished the ones going for the big bucks v. the ones that were cheap. After watching the auctions for a bit and reading many posts, I boiled it down to the following requirements for a good old user plane:

- "Bailey" cast into the plane bed in front of the knob.
- One or more patent dates cast into the bed in front of the tote.
- No missing parts.
- No cracks or repairs to the metal components (I saw a guy on this site makes and sells replacement totes, so I thought I could easily replace a broken tote)
- No, or very light rust.

Once I got mine, out of curiosity, I used the following site to date it. If I were going to an auction or flea market, I would take a printout with me.

http://www.hyperkitten.com/tools/stanley_bench_plane/dating/

I think it may be on the "Blood and Gore" site Alex mentioned.

[Danny Thompson]

Zahid,

As a minor aside, what is the best thread or site describing how to rehab an old plane?

Thanks,

Danny

[Sean Kinn]

I'm a newbie that just went through this too. In addition to reviewing the description and pictures closely be sure to ask the seller about the "hidden parts" if there are not enough close-up pics. I got a deal on a #4 that needed some tlc, and upon recept I found the blade was essentially trashed (crooked grind, severe bevel on the back of the blade, major gouges on the edge of the blade like someone tried to repeatedly plane nails). It would have taken some major grinder work to even get it to a useable state. To top it off, the bolt that held the chipbreaker to the blade was a "custom" ground bolt of the wrong size that was apparently installed, then ground down flush...thus requiring it to be drilled out since it was effectively acting more like a rivet than a screw.

I was fortunate in that I had a parts plane handy that I was able to scavenge a blade and chipbreaker from. I would have been a little disappointed if I hadn't had the parts plane. Moral of the story...make sure the pics show everything, or ask the seller specific questions. I still feel I got a good deal for the very low price I paid since the tote, frog and handles were in very good shape, but I wasn't expecting the blade and chipbreaker surprise.

[Tom Henry]

At our meeting this weekend there will be a antique tool dealer who is going to bring everything with him. So I will be able to see everything first hand.

[Jim Koepke]

As a minor aside, what is the best thread or site describing how to rehab an old plane?

This is one I like for information:

https://home.comcast.net/~rexmill/planes101/planes101.htm

I am sure the collectors would go nuts over how I treat a plane. I like the large adjuster nuts that were used on Stanley planes about 1920. The rest of the plane I like the shorter knob of pre 1920. The frog adjustment screw of 1907 and later is nice, but if the plane doesn't have one, I do not pass on it just for this.

If you are buying on eBay, read what other have left for feed back. Is the plane being sold by someone that sells a lot of tools or someone that found this at an estate sale and is hopping to make some money selling something about which they haven't a clue? Look closely at the pictures for cracked handles. Beware of sellers using out of focus pictures. Sometimes these fools work against themselves. I have taken chances by putting in minimum bids on items with bad photos & sellers who would not supply better images or would not respond to emails. If someone else ups the bid, I let it go. Some rather nice surprises have come my way.

Above all else on eBay be patient! Don't spend more than you intend.
There is almost always someone else waiting until the last minute to bid hoping to get something at a low price. Then there are the items that for some reason, no one notices and you get them at a good price.
I bought a box with two Stanley 45s (one was a Wards model). What one could only see by looking closely at the pictures (I enlarged the images about 10x) is that it also came with a complete set of the special cutters for the 45. I paid less for the two planes, all the standard blades and the extra cutters than one would likely have to pay just for the special cutters.

Watch the auctions and learn about the ones you want. For the average person, a 3 or 4, a 5 and a 7 or 8 should be a good start. After that, maybe a second 5 that can be set up as a scrub plane would be useful.
I have two 5s with one set to take whisper thin shavings and the other takes the thick cuts. Have been wanting to use an extra #3 blade on the 5 with a curved edge to use like a scrub, just haven't gotten one of them round tuits.

Good luck and have fun,

Jim

If you are not totaly confused, perhaps you do not understand the situation.

--Edward Murrow

[Glenn Madsen]

Or you can buy from one of the old tool dealers that are around. The ones with a good reputation have earned it, and intend to keep it.

This isn't the way to find an unknown gem at a rock-bottom price. It is a way to avoid buying a rock at a gem's price. But you will buy at a fair price.

I've done business with Patrick Leach, and with Pete Niederberger, and others here are more than happy with Walt Q at Brass City, and others as well. We don't all need to be out digging in the barns. Some of us can be making furniture, on occasion.

[Zahid Naqvi]

Here are some of the rehab links I used

For a block plane but the principles are the same no matter what Stanley/Bailey style plane you are working on.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=60970&highlight=rehab

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=5867&highlight=rehab

If you really feel adventurous you can try electrolysis (http://web.archive.org/web/20020817233726/http://users.interconnect.net/nlindsey/rusty2l/electrolysis/electrolysis.htm#Cleaning%20Rusty), it works wonderfully well and is much easier than it sounds

Once you get into it you develop your own methods, depending on what you have at hand and supplies that are easily acquirable.

[Danny Thompson]

Awesome, thanks.

[Alex Carrera]

I second the electrolysis. It's so simple and does such a nice job of cleaning things up.

[Wiley Horne]

Hello Tom,

Ebay is a tough place to get started. It's a very good place after you know what you're looking for.

It's very useful to start out with one or two planes that you know are 'right'--that way, you can focus on the fettling and sharpening, in the knowledge that it's down to you, and there's nothing wrong with the plane.

So how do you get planes that you know are 'right'? One way is to buy one plane from LN or LV to start with. A second way is follow Glen Madsen's advice and go to a reliable on-line dealer. Glen had good recommendations, and I would add Sandy Moss to his list,

http://www.sydnassloot.com/

I think you'll get a better start that way, than by learning the ropes on ebay, although I like ebay once you know what you're looking for.

Wiley

[Kevin French]

If you go by your signiture line, you go out and buy the high priced planes and then just learn to sharpen and use them.

With HP's I never subscribed to that statement. I bought the dogs off ebay, found cheap ones at yard sales/flea markets and pulled many out of the dump. I enjoy rehab'n planes/tools/stuff and don't mind all the time it takes.

I now just stick with the Big Name brands, but it hard for me to pass on a $5 plane, someone out there always needs a starter plane.