Advice about planes STANLEY/BAILEY #4

[James Williams 007]

I'm still in school but I have managed to put together a decent shop and I want to collect some hand tools. I have some Lie block planes and I just bought the #4 in the title for 91.00 was that a good buy. Heres the description THIS IS A GOOD+ CONDITION ORIGINAL TYPE 13, 1925-28 'SWEET-HART' #4 HAND PLANE. THE BODY RETAINS AT LEAST 99% OF THE ORIGINAL FINISH, NO DAMAGE OR REPAIRS AT ALL. THE ROSEWOOD TOTE AND KNOB ARE 100% WHOLE WITH NO DAMAGE OR REPAIRS. A VERY 'CLEAN' PACKAGE. THE FULL LENGTH IRON BEARS THE CORRECT 'AA' T.M. SWEET-HART LOGO, ONE PAT. DATE BEHIND FROG, APR-19-10. Is there a way to identify a good from a bad as far as markings and so on any info will help. I am also looking at a bedrock jack plane and a #7 sweet hart! Thanks in advance for any help. Ive already learned so much from all of you!

[Clint Jones]

James pm sent. Clint

[Marcus Ward]

I think I paid 20$ for the last #4 I bought. It wasn't in as good of shape but I am not a collector, just a user. Seems a bit high for a user plane, but for a collector who knows. The prices they'll pay are ridiculous.

[Stephen Nelson]

I just paid 40.00 for a mint 41/2C

[Don C Peterson]

I tend to agree with Marcus. I'm not saying that the plane you bought was or wasn't a good deal in terms of collectability, but when I look for used planes I avoid the ones that have "original boxes", "Sweetheart", and any of the Bedrock planes or other stuff that collectors seem to find valuable.

Not that Bedrock planes and Sweetheart irons aren't good, they are great, but for me as a user, they are not worth the price you pay. The Bedrocks are great, but for the price, I'd rather have a new LN that I don't have to clean up and tune up to use. The Sweetheart irons aren't really much, if any, better than the standard Stanley irons, besides, for the old Stanley planes that I do have, I bought replacement LN and Hock irons.

The last old Stanley plane I bought (a #5 Bailey) I paid around $7 with something like $10 for shipping.

[Marcus Ward]

Also don't avoid planes that are rusty. I bought a #8 that was UGLY with rust and soaked it in citric acid overnight and it turned out gorgeous. Be a cheap bastard when it comes to this stuff if you're planning on using it and not collecting it. There are deals to be had, it just takes some digging.

[Richard Niemiec]

No doubt that #4 is real purdy, but read what Marcus said and take it to heart.

Rich

[Danny Thompson]

Marcus,

In citric acid? Like in lemon juice or do you buy pure citric acid?

[Marcus Ward]

I buy powdered citric acid and mix it with water. I don't think lemon juice would be strong enough. You can find powdered citric acid at health food stores (expensive) or homebrewing supply shops (cheap). I usually mix up 5 oz of powder per gallon. One thing nice about citric acid is it doesn't harm the japanning. Electrolysis will strip the japanning off. After I take them out of the bath I dry them off and then wirewheel them with a brass-wire wheel and then slap a couple of coats of wax on them.

[Danny Thompson]

That sounds a lot less daunting than electrolysis. Thanks.

007,

It sounds like you got a nice tool. I'm jealous.

There is some comfort in buying a plane that you know is in good shap. A brand new Stanley Bailey #4 is over $60, and they are roundly criticized for poor quality I recently bought my 1st plane on eBay (Type 11, 1910 - 1918) for $35 after shipping, but it has rust, is not flat, and will require quite a bit of cleaning. Now I have to figure out how to tune it and may need to replace the blade and chipbreaker. If I do, I will be close to your price or higher.

The problem for me is that I don't have a good reference piece. But you do. Next time you can decide whether you want to take the risk on a less clean plane or one that is ready to go. If you go dirty, you'll know what to shoot for during the cleanup.

Now that I think of it, would you mind loaning it to me for a few weeks?

Good luck,

Danny

[Steve Clardy]

So you're the one that bought that #4. ;)


My user set is type 13's, so I naturally hunt out the 13's on the bay.
I watched that one sell. :eek: :D :D :D

I just gave away my #4 as a gift to someone, and was watching it as a possible new canadate.
I have another I will restore to make my set full again. ;)


Buying planes can get addictive ;) :cool: :D

[Clint Jones]

So you're the one that bought that #4. ;)


My user set is type 13's, so I naturally hunt out the 13's on the bay.
I watched that one sell. :eek: :D :D :D

Buying planes can get addictive ;) :cool: :D
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/billy_nutt/t4.jpg

[Marcus Ward]

One of each? pfffffffft! :D I have 4 #4s, 5#5s, heheh but only 2 #7s and a #8. And one #3 and other assorted goodies. The only reason I ended up with so many 4s and 5s is people kept selling them to me so cheap. I was at a flea market and this guy had a pair of pretty nice, well one really nice and one fair #5s, one corrugated one flat, both war era or slightly after and he had 25 on one and 20 on the other and I walked up to him with both in my hands and said, "Well I really need another #5 like a hole in my head..." and before I could finish he says "I'd take 30 for the pair." Well duh at that point who wouldn't buy them?? Some of mine aren't so pretty but they're all good users. I was at an antique store a few weeks ago and there was a 4,5, and 8 in a basket with $250 marked on it. I had the lady running the store call the person who had the booth and offer 70, he took it. There are lots of deals, you just have to look and dig, be willing to clean the rust off, live with some slight pitting, and most of all dicker with the sellers. If you can talk to them face to face, you can talk them down. I'll try to get a pic of the collection so far tonight. Once you're exposed to Galootinous Dioxide, you're done for!!!

[Clint Jones]

One of each? pfffffffft! :D I have 4 #4s, 5#5s, heheh but only 2 #7s and a #8. And one #3 and other assorted goodies.
Marcus, sounds like youve got enough to share :D One of each???You dont know me that well then?? I cant even recall how many I have I know over 150. Its a shame I only regularly use 4 or 5 of them. Clint "who is using No.1's as paperweights;) "

[Dan Barr]

HA HA HA... (in my tyrannous pirate voice) :D :D :D

I picked up a Stanley #6 at a flea market for $15. (Patent dates of 1902 an 1910) the owner thought it was rusted frozen. It was still flat antd true but pitted. I took it home, put it flat on the concrete and gave the screws a couple of firm taps and all was well. Soaked in mineral spirits to remove the 5 different colors of paint that had gone on it over however many years. (to include some nice cheap gold spray paint)

Once i got it stripped, i sanded and shellaced the wooden pieces and painted the interior of the body black. The iron is too pitted to use. (too weak and deformed; gotta replace it) all the rest is fine.

Cant wait to get a new iron for it!

congratulations on your buy as well.

As for me, I agree with marcus. I dont "collect" the things, i use them. if the pieces are workable and the body is still flat and true, i'll buy it, restore it and put it to use.

I dont "want" to have 150 planes. However, I think i might be headed in that direction though. LOL :D

V/R

Dan

[David Weaver]

I just paid 40.00 for a mint 41/2C

So did I, exactly to the dollar, but that's not the going rate.

[David Weaver]

I'm going to pop my head up here and say you didn't do that bad if the description is correct. Planes in that good of condition are a little bit more rare than the average #4 that has surface rust and an out of flat sole.

What you did do is buy a plane that's in "collector's shape". If it'd have had surface rust and some uglies on it, it would've been a lot cheaper.

You got what you paid for. If I was in your shoes, I would almost be tempted to spend $30 or $40 to get a good functional #4 that isn't in as good of shape as that one is. That way, you're not beating on a collector's shape plane.

People on here will tell you what you can get if you wait around to find something, or what you'll pay at a yard sale if you can find what you want, but they rarely will tell you what it costs to get a plane if you need a size and you can't wait around forever to get it.

Walt Q's site is a good reference for what the fair going rate is for certain planes in certain conditions. His tools sell fast because people know he's a straight shooter, and he's fair on prices.

http://www.brasscityrecords.com/toolworks/new%20tools.html

Don't get down on your purchase and discount just how valuable condition is.

[Marcus Ward]

I wasn't trying to disparage the purchase, just give him pointers for his next one if he's not a collector and not in a hurry. For the condition of that plane, that is a fair price. If it were my plane, I'd use it. Tools are meant to be used, not put on a shelf and dusted once in a while.

[Marcus Ward]

Marcus, sounds like youve got enough to share :D One of each???You dont know me that well then?? I cant even recall how many I have I know over 150. Its a shame I only regularly use 4 or 5 of them. Clint "who is using No.1's as paperweights;) "

Ahhh it must be a charmed life. :) I'm nowhere near 150 although I can see that situation clearly from where I'm standing now. I took pics of the whole collection so far this morning. I'm only up to 20. Tell me though, is a #1 adequate to hold down papers in a breeze? I'd figure something larger would work better. ;)

[Eddie Darby]

When you find out that Elvis used the plane during shop class, you will be real happy with your purchase.:D
Thanks for posting!

[David Weaver]

I would use it, too - but it seems like everyone else always suggests to set the nice ones aside. I don't use anything rough enough to tear it up, but I do know a few guys who could bull a #8 until the tote breaks and something gets chipped or cracked.

Dropping the plane in question would be the biggest hazard, but it sure is a lot cheaper than a LN #4.

[Richard Niemiec]

Marcus, I was sort of where you are, until about 6 months ago, when I decided that I would pick the true "users" and sell off all the duplicates; you might have seen them posted here. But I still face the same problem when I see planes folks are simply giving away for $10 or $20, I have to repeat to myself...."I'm over the sickness, I can resist...."

rn

[James Williams 007]

:)I have caught the bug I have found myself finding scraps and just planing them and making adjustments and then making piles of shavings. I need to find a good sharpening set up now! Thanks for all the advice! I'll post picks of my next project and gloats!

[Brian Kent]

And here is what I use for sharpening:

From Tools for Working Wood (but available elsewhere too) - 3M microabrasives: Kit of 2 sheets each of 15, 5, and .3 micron PSA film (6 sheets total) ($11.55)

The simple honing guide from the same place or elsewhere for 9.95.

A square foot piece of highly polished marble floor tile from Home Depot for under $5.

I have other systems but this is the one I use regularly, and it is the cheapest, simplest, and sharpest results for my uses.

[Bill Brehme]

The Slope Has Just Gone Vertical!!!:d

[Don C Peterson]

For sharpening I really like DMT diamond stones for shaping and grinding. I've tried everything from Japanese waterstones to Black Arkansas stone for final honing. Both of these worked ok, the waterstones worked quickly but I got tired of flatening them. The Arkansas stone doesn't need flattening, but it cuts very slowly. I recently tried a fine Spyderco ceramic stone and so far it seems to offer the best of both worlds. It works great and isn't supposed to need flattening, (time will tell).

[Marcus Ward]

So did I, exactly to the dollar, but that's not the going rate.

I picked up a #4 1/2 I think it's a type 7 or 8 for 12$ yesterday. In fairly good shape too (user).

James, save those shavings, they make excellent packing materials!

[Steve Clardy]

I picked up a #4 1/2 I think it's a type 7 or 8 for 12$ yesterday. In fairly good shape too (user).

James, save those shavings, they make excellent packing materials!


:eek: Great price.

I too picked up a 4.5 in Lincoln a week ago thursday. $40.00

[David Weaver]

I picked up a #4 1/2 I think it's a type 7 or 8 for 12$ yesterday. In fairly good shape too (user).

James, save those shavings, they make excellent packing materials!

I think if there's nothing wrong with it, you could flip it over for $75 easily. Corrugation would add a few bucks.

If you get it cleaned up and tuned, you might not want to use any other smoothing planes. Every time I use something else, I go back to the 4 1/2C pretty quickly - unless I have to smooth something really nasty.

[Marcus Ward]

I think if there's nothing wrong with it, you could flip it over for $75 easily. Corrugation would add a few bucks.

If you get it cleaned up and tuned, you might not want to use any other smoothing planes. Every time I use something else, I go back to the 4 1/2C pretty quickly - unless I have to smooth something really nasty.

I really like using my #7 for smoothing so I figured this one would be great. I haven't got it entirely tuned yet but so far it's pretty awesome. I'm fighting the internal battle between flipping it and keeping it. :confused: