More glue ?

[Al Willits]

Not wanting to clutter up Bob's excellent posts with dumb questions I thought I'd post them here.

Never did find out if epoxy is good for outdoor stuff like lawn furniture, planters, etc anybody?

Also fighting with finding a reasonable and convenient source for plastic resin glue, ACE has something called Truss glue that's made by DAP and is a resin glue, also non Truss stuff for what looks like more money..??
Same stuff or??

Woodcraft has Pro-Glue Veneer bond, is this also what I can use as a U/F glue?

I see David Marks has the Urac185 listed first, if this is his first choice I'm having trouble finding it locally, but wondering if the Woodcraft stuff is the same?

Looks like the local True Value hardware store has resorcinol and that appears to be a one part glue that comes in a can, thought I'd try that stuff to while I'm on a gluing binge.

Am I right in assuming the U/F stuff makes a good indoor furniture type glue and a reasonably good outdoor glue?
Or should I go towards the epoxy for outdoors?

tia

Al

[josh bjork]

If you can find resorcinol locally there is nothing wrong with it. I think it is in the same sort of family with Urac and the plastic resin. People order Urac direct from nelson paints because it isn't stocked often and it is good for about a year only so some old stock would be a bad buy anyways. Shipping from nelson is sort of weird, they charge like $10 shipping or something in the shopping cart and if it costs less they actually charge you less or something like that but it happens after the fact. I've used it quite a bit and it is an excellent gap filler.

I'd try the resorcinol out if it is local and the price is reasonable. All three of these glues are sort of old school but way good for wood to wood bonds. I think I recall a book or an article where a guy would only glue things with resorcinal because the glueup could withstand being steamed. I think it is the glue that leaves a faintly purple glue line so no jewelry boxes. If you want to glue a piece of brass to wood, then you need epoxy. The oldschool glues won't do that.

[Greg Robbins]

Here's one source.

http://www.vacupress.com/veneerglue.htm#prices

[Al Willits]

Thanks, I'm trying to find it locally if I can, but I see woodworkers supply has a Urea Resin too, and I need to order some stuff from them.

Not sure if Beasty would apreceate purple stripes in her flower planters, that's why I was wondering about epoxy or the plastic resin glue.:)

Al...who's getting confused about glues, but figures there's hope...

[josh bjork]

buy some and experiment. It isn't like it glows, it is a subdued color but on pure white wood you can see it if you look close. Urac is noticably brown.

[Al Willits]

buy some and experiment. It isn't like it glows, it is a subdued color but on pure white wood you can see it if you look close. Urac is noticably brown.


That's what I was kinda planning, just trying to keep the varibles down as much as possible.
Also trying to find all this locally if possible, not fond of having to wait for shipping when I make a error in the amount I need...:)

I don't have the patience to do the testing like Bob did, rather let them that know what their doing, do it, then be greatful they post their results.

So my main concern, I think, is to figure out what brand names go with what techincal name, where to get them and then get a few different glues and see what happens.

Thus reling on those that know, to suggest which glue does what the best.

Al...thanks to those that know...:)

[Hank Knight]

Al,

I don't think anybody answered your question about epoxy for outdoor applications. It's perfectly fine for outdoor use. Epoxy resin is what holds the fiberglass cloth together in fiberglass boats. It's about as waterproof as you can get. Resorcinol is the other main boat glue (I think URAC 185 is trade name for a resorcinol glue). It' waterproof too, but it does leave an ugly purple glue line and it stains everything it gets on. I don't recall plastic resin glue being touted for it's waterproof qualities although it's great glue - strong, long set-up time and no creep. If I were you, I'd look for some West System 2-part epoxy. It's available at most marine supply places, including a chain called West's Marine.

FWIW, I built LOML some cypress window boxes 4 or 5 years ago and used Tightbond III. It had just come on the market and the window boxes were my first project using it. They have stood the test of time. There has been no joint failure even though they have been out in the elements for all this time and they get watered at least every other day, not counting the rain.

Hank

[Al Willits]

Thanks Hank, I have a West just down the block from where I work, I'll swing by and pick some up, been using the little tubes from the borg and its ok for the little stuff, but I have a railing I need to glue and I'll need a larger amount.

I'm thinking resin for indoor stuff and the epoxies for outdoor, trying to keep this as simple as I can.

I've had good luck with the first major project I did, that was a pair of flower boxes for the wife, they've sat outside for two years now and look ok, titiebond 3 is what I used on them, but who knows for longer periods.
It (titebond 3) does seem to soften a little with water, maybe wasn't cured enough though.

More of that learning curve...:D

Al

[Bill Jepson]

Not wanting to clutter up Bob's excellent posts with dumb questions I thought I'd post them here.

Never did find out if epoxy is good for outdoor stuff like lawn furniture, planters, etc anybody?

Also fighting with finding a reasonable and convenient source for plastic resin glue, ACE has something called Truss glue that's made by DAP and is a resin glue, also non Truss stuff for what looks like more money..??
Same stuff or??

Woodcraft has Pro-Glue Veneer bond, is this also what I can use as a U/F glue?

I see David Marks has the Urac185 listed first, if this is his first choice I'm having trouble finding it locally, but wondering if the Woodcraft stuff is the same?

Looks like the local True Value hardware store has resorcinol and that appears to be a one part glue that comes in a can, thought I'd try that stuff to while I'm on a gluing binge.

Am I right in assuming the U/F stuff makes a good indoor furniture type glue and a reasonably good outdoor glue?
Or should I go towards the epoxy for outdoors?

tia

Al

Al,
David Marks did a class on laminating shaped beams at a local Woodcraft. (I didn't make it because of other engagements) When checking on the class though the Woodcraft guys were carping about the fact that Marks insisted on using a glue that they DID NOT CARRY. They said that they could order a functionally identical product (right down to the purple color), but not the same product.
Bill

[Al Willits]

""""""""
Al,
David Marks did a class on laminating shaped beams at a local Woodcraft. (I didn't make it because of other engagements) When checking on the class though the Woodcraft guys were carping about the fact that Marks insisted on using a glue that they DID NOT CARRY. They said that they could order a functionally identical product (right down to the purple color), but not the same product.
Bill
"""""""""

Just about the time ya figured ya had a somewhat light grip on what's going on....:D

I'd figure David would like glue he's used to working with, prob do the same I guess if I was him.

OK, I'm assuming the glue was the resorcinol, I see Woodcraft has Pro-Glue but they say that's a urea resin...different than resorcinol...right?

I'm leaning away from the resorcinol if for any reason other than I can't deal with a multitude of glues right now, and till my skills get better three is gonna be it, looks like titebond3, urea resins and epoxies.

And I'm hoping those are three different glues...:D

Someday, this will all make sense...right???:)

Once again, thanks

Al

[Hank Knight]

AL,

Since you've not used West two-part epoxy before, I recommend you invest in the measuring pumps they sell for the product when you buy your first batch. They screw right on the cans in place of the tops and measure out the correct proportions of resin and hardner with each push of the plunger. They save headaches and keep things relatively clean and easy (although epoxy is generally a messy proposition).
I think you'll be pleased with your results using epoxy.

Hank

[Wade Lippman]

This probably won't affect you, but epoxy is not UV resistant.

Probably of no importance, but something to keep in the back of your mind.

[Al Willits]

Thanks Hank, bit spendy getting the whole kit, but might as well do it and get it over with..:)

Wade I just seen that rereading all the stuff I've got so far on glues, Rockler has Resorcinol and I may just give it a try, especially for stuff that's gonna be hit by sunlight a lot.

OK..ok..maybe I'll use 4 glues :D

Glues are kinda like finish's I'm beginning to think, different kinds for different uses.

Al....who's gonna miss peeling the titebond off his fingers...:)

ps...can't emagine trying to wade though all this with out all your help, many thanks.

[David G Baker]

I don't know if they are still in business, Tap Plastics is where I purchased all of my epoxy and polyester resin. They weren't cheap but they always had good products and information.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Advanced Wood Adhesives Technology
By A. pizzi. is the definitive resource for wood glues.

[Al Willits]

Advanced Wood Adhesives Technology
By A. pizzi. is the definitive resource for wood glues.


Googling that resulted in a $151 book on glue, thanks but I'll pass on that one..:)

I think I stay with 4 different ones I've picked out and work around whatever they can't do...:)

Al

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Googling that resulted in a $151 book on glue, thanks but I'll pass on that one..

But it's a GOOD $150 book on glue.

[Todd Jensen]

For your purposes - and I didn't see your location - but I think your easiest, most economical choice is to go with titebond 3 for outdoor furniture and planters, etc. If you're building an exquisite planter for a high-end client, go with the boat-building epoxies maybe(though I think the titebond 3 would serve that purpose as well). It just sounds like you don't necessarily want to throw a lot of time and money into your own research, and while there are expensive glues that will last 150 years, you could spend a 1/4 of that and your projects will only last 100. Good joinery and fasteners will be your ally. JMO, good luck and have fun with your outdoor projects.

[Glenn Madsen]

Did I miss something in an earlier thread?

The part I like about Titebond I/II/III is that the bottle sits on the shelf, and I use it when I need it. No mixing, no measuring, no fussing with if it's a year and a half old. And it's affordable.

Not bombproof. Not for building Chriscraft replicas. But it works for my stuff.

These are glues I use for 85% of what I do. Something may be better, but these are more than good enough. I'm not willing to put up with the other fussing around most of the time. Particularly on something where I'm going to throw out the glue pot after each session.

My eldest son did a surfboard in my shop in August. Laminated redwood, then fiberglassed and the whole bit. Beautiful, but the process was messy and smelly and continuous and not fast. And I'm still scraping drips off of my clamps and floor and benches months later.:mad:

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Resorcinol in larger container than the DAP product
I found a larger container 32 ounces (& 6 ounces of hardener) in aluminum bottles here for $64.00
o-------http://www.chemical-supermarket.com/G_1131_Resorcinol_Structural_Adhesive-p90.html--------o

Heres an interesting David Marks Article on the urear formalhyde glues in IPE and out-of-doors:
http://www.djmarks.com/pdf/ureaglue.pdf

Clearly, he felt that FWW should not have left resourcinol out of their recent glue test.


Urac 185 is (so (I am told) not as strong as resorcinol but it can gap fill somewhat.
http://nelsonpaint.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=Urac-GL&Category_Code=UA

I have an out of doors chair set planned and resorcinol is going to be my glue. I used Titebond III on my adrondacks but adrondacks are held together by screws and the glue surfaces are large. These chairs will be chippendale joined chairs. I think I want a beast of a glue.

[Al Willits]

Lots of good info and I'm finally getting close to a battle plan, thanks all.

I did find resorcinol at Rockler and I got a pint sized set of epoxy, probably going to order the white powder stuff from Woodworkers Supply, but I'm leaning to wards playing with what I have, least wises for now.

Seems opinions on glue are as varied as finishes, so I'm going to have to work with each and find out what I like.
Not gonna be around for 50 years to test longevity, but I can test for the rest of it like workability, pot time, strength and whatever else ya test for, including whether I can peel it off my fingers or not....:)

I've read/talked to enough people that I'll still have a bottle or two of Titefist 3 laying around, but I'd like to make a laminated cane for myself and I think I'll use the resorcinol for that, also possibly outdoor furniture with maybe trying the UF white powder stuff too.

The original railing set with be with the resorcinol also and that brings up my question...finally

Does this stuff not hardened at temps below about 60 degree's or just slow way down?
I guess I'm looking for the lowest temp to use this stuff at?
Considering its 53 right now I think my days of warm weather are almost over.
tia

Al