Cutting segments

[Mike Golka]

I did a search of this Forum for info on miter sleds but didn't find much, lots of threads over in "flat land". My question is for all the segmented turners here, what type of sled if any do you use for cutting segments. I have one dedicated sled I made for 12 segment rings but aren't real keen on having a seperate sled for all the different angles one might use. I've looked at a few manufactured sleds and miter guages (Kreg, Incra, Jointech, etc.). Are any of you using them and if so what kind of results are you getting. BTW I have a 10" compound miter saw but have not tried using it for segments yet. Any info in this area would be greatly appreciated.

Mike

[Brian Brown]

Mike,

Get a copy of Malcolm Tibbetts The art of 'Segmented turning'. It covers your question very well, as well as many other questions you will encounter as you get more into segmented work. I made a sled like the one described in his book, and it is very close to the actual angle of cut, but not exact. You can get just as close with the commercial miters you named above, but you need to be willing to spend the $$$. I would rather use the money for exotic wood (if you are new to segmented work, be ready for a serious drain on your wallet). It is not necessary to have a different sled for each miter angle. You just need a interchangeable miter part set to each angle you'll need to cut. After you cut the segments, you need to sand the cut ends. This sanding process takes the near accuracy of your table saw to the accuracy needed for these joints, and also makes the joints fit together better for a tighter stronger cleaner joint line. Even if you do get a commercial miter, get Tibbets book. It is well worth the read. "He da Man" when it comes to segmented work!!! He is also a participant on SMC, and always has the best advice.

Good luck with your segments, and let's see some of your work when it's done. We don't see enough segmented work here!

Brian

[Mike Vickery]

I am not really a segmenter but I played with a couple pieces.
73722
This is the sled I made but you will have to forgive the poor picture I had to copy it out of a pdf.

This kind of sled can be a pain since you have to dial it in every time you change the angle. I used it a lot for pen designs where the angle just needed to be repeatable but not a specific angle.

[Malcolm Tibbetts]

Mike, I'm happy for the endorsement from Brian (thanks Brian). In my book, I discuss sleds, but I cut most all of my segments using a chop saw (chop saw set-up is in the book). The required accuracy really depends upon whether or not you are going to sand your segment ends before gluing. With no sanding, angle accuracy and smoothness of cut must be near perfect; with jig sanding, the sanding jig accuracy is the most important. Good luck.

[Mike Golka]

Thanks Brian and Malcom. Malcolm the sled I made for my table saw seems to do a pretty good job, I use an 80 tooth finishing blade when I cut and only sand lightly to remove any bur. I haven't seen anything on jigs for sanding but then I haven't realy looked either. Malcolm I assume that one would have to make a jig for every angle that is used. Do you cover the jig manufacture in your book as well?

[Robert McGowen]

Hi Mike,

I have to jump on the bandwagon here about Malcolm's book. I read it and didn't really "get" it the first time or two that I read it. (Sorry Malcolm!) About the 3rd read through and after starting some projects of my own, it all began to fall into place. I personally use a 12" sliding compound miter saw for the segments. Way over kill I know, but it looks cool. :D The biggest part of the deal for me was the 12" Jet disc sander that I purchased. You could really cut the segments by hand if you wanted to, as the sanding jig in Malcolm's book is that good and accurate in my opinion. One small piece of wood for the jig for each angle that you might need to cut and you are set.
Good luck!

[Larry Marley]

Yep,
Malcolm's the man!

Kevin Neely has a nice tutorial on sleds at:
http://www.turnedwood.com/

here is the one I use:
I use eccentrics to calibrate the different angles
the current one has more stops now, I just keep adding them as I go.

http://marleyturned.com/6be5e070.jpghttp://marleyturned.com/6805e070.jpg

[Richard Madison]

Mike,
You may find that you don't really need umpteen different fixed angle sleds. Having made five or six for different angles, I use one most of the time, and two more sometimes. Certainly not enough different angles to justify the purchase of a multi-hundred dollar doodad when I can make a sled from scraps in a short time.

A good 10" 80 tooth carbide blade makes decent glue surfaces, although strictly speaking the sanded surface is better. Recently bought a super cheapie 80 tooth carbide blade (you can guess where), and the difference in cut quality between it and my years old and never been sharpened Freud blade is amazing. Buy a GOOD (that means expensive) blade.

And keep reading Malcolm's book. Having read every word at least once, I still "get" something I missed every time I look through it.

[Fred Floyd]

Malcolm's the expert on segmented. However, Curt Theobald has a video on setting up your sander to accurately sand the segments. It is excellent.

From my meager experience, the critical thing is to get your rings together with. Spend the time setting up the disk sander and making the jig. Once that is done, your segment cutting (whether tablesaw or mitersaw) will go faster.

Others have said that segmented is expensive to get started. That may be true, but nearly every aspect of woodturning as turned out to be expensive.

[Mike Golka]

Thanks for all the replys, they are realy appreciated. Larry thats a nice looking sled. What did you use for the eccentrics, looks like disks with a hole for a removeable pin. Do you just use the srew in the middle to lock them in place once set? Any problems with the pins becoming loose after a while?

[Larry Marley]

Hi Mike,
I made the hole for the disk with a forsner bit.
cut the disks out of hardwood with a circle cutting jig on the bandsaw.
drilled and countersunk the screw hole and drilled the hole for the brass pin. I used a gauge to set the original fence angle and then made test cuts until the segments were as accurate as possible. Before I torque down the eccentric I temporarily mark the position of the fence front and rear with a sharp pencil. Once set, the fence has proved to be repeatable.
I have been careful to only use enough pressure to hold the fence against the pin until I tighten it down. the eccentric is about 1/4" thick so the pin has descent support. I considered using polycarbonate for the disk, but wanted enough friction to keep it in place.

[Mike Golka]

Thanks Larry, I think that might be the way for me to, that and some sort of sanding jig.

[Hilel Salomon]

Our club in SC had a "segmenter" who touted the Dubby sleds. I haven't done segmented turning, but have the Dubby sleds and love them. In seconds, I make octagonal pieces for boxes and the Dubby has provisions for almost any kind of frame or box shape. Accuracy is remarkable.
Luck, Hilel.

[Bill Wyko]

Incra miter 1000SE is the only way to go IMHO. Check their website, you'll see some of my work there. If you use one, the most important thing to know is zero it to your saw correctly and it will do the job perfectly. IMHO

[Joe Kaufman]

A friend who does outstanding segmented vessels uses the disc sander and jig method. I believe most of his techniques are covered in the book "Woodturning with Ray Allen" by Dale L. Nish.

Check out Ken's work: http://www.kencowell.com/segmented.html

Appreciate the accuracy achieved, especially on the last vessel #702.

[Larry Marley]

I agree with Joe's recommendation.
My sanding jigs are base on that book. Makes it easy for feature rings and such. Good reading.


Thanks for the link! nice work..

[Adam Morgenstern]

Ok so I have an Incra 1000se like someone above reccomended and granted I am new to working on a tablesaw, but when I made my first 35 degree cut for a celtic cross, the cut off piece went flying across the room. So what am I missing? I know I need a ZCI but is that all it takes to stop the holes in the wall?