Blank orientation

[Jim Kountz]

Ok this is probably going to be a really dumb question to some but when we dont know we ask right?
When you mount a bowl blank in the lathe how should it be oriented? Should the end grain be between the centers or the face grain? I feel so stupid even asking this but I just really dont know. Can it be done either way and what are the pros/cons for each if so?

Thanks and pardon my ignorance!:confused:

[Glenn Hodges]

Jim, if you are making a regular bowl the blank should be mounted so the grain runs cross ways or as I believe you said face grain. Most all hollow forms are mounted on end grain.

[Brodie Brickey]

It can be done either way. If the grain orientation is between the spindles its considered end grain turning. The most common way is to orient the blank so the faces intersect with the spindles (side grain).

When face grain turning, you use a bowl or spindle gouge to shape the outside from the foot upward to the rim. Inside the bowl the normal direction is rim to center. This is so that the grain fibers are supported on the cut, minimizing tear out. End grain directions are reversed.

A block or wood that is plain via end grain orientation can be very beautiful side grain. This is because the end grain will come out of the side of the bowl. End grain turnings, depending on how big the log was, often have the pith in it. The pith often causes or cracks before everything else resulting in a higher level of failure.

Some woods lend themselves to end grain turning. The first that comes to mind is the Norfolk Pine which has branches coming out of the trunk at the height from all sides of the tree. End grain turned, these are very striking. (see link, sadly not mine: http://jkellydunn.com/norfolk.asp)

Side grain is the most common for turning bowls and platters.

[RL Johnson]

Just be careful if you are mounting a face grain bowl blank. The rouging gouge and usually the skew is to be put away for such turnings. The gouge name is now often referred to as a spindle roughing gouge. Best of luck in turning.

[Alex Cam]

Thanks and pardon my ignorance!:confused:

I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that everyone started off with the exact same question at some point -- I know I did. Ignorance would be NOT tapping the incredible knowledge base that you have here at your disposal. Keep asking!

[William Bachtel]

If you keep asking questions, you will keep learning.

[joe greiner]

Just a cent or two relating to the dryness of the blank.

For cross-grain turning, the usual practice is to turn the blank to about 1 inch thickness, and set aside for about a year to dry, so that warping occurs with little stress. Then turn to final shape. On the other hand, you can turn to final shape immediately, and let people wonder how you turned an oval bowl without special equipment. For some woods, "immediately" means just that: no overnight breaks, lunch, bathroom, etc.

For end-grain, the sooner you turn to a dome shape, the less likelihood of developing cracks due to circumferential shrinkage; the grain parallel to the lathe axis will bend slightly to accommodate the shrinkage.

Joe

[Dennis Peacock]

Hey Jim,

Glad you asked...and it's a perfectly good question. :)

Like what has already been mentioned...bowls and platters are usually mounted with the long-grain facing the tailstock of the lathe. This will mean that you will have alternating endgrain and long-grain wood that you will be working with. The endgrain will be the hardest to sand cleanly and usually requires some power sanding with the lathe off and you moving the wood under the sanding pad to get the endgrain areas cleaned up.

Goblet's and hollow forms are usually mounted with the endgrain facing the tailstock. You need the long-grain strength in those areas of the "stem" on goblets. ;)

Good question and thanks for asking. :D

[Greely Bryan]

OK...being new to turning, I started reading this thread with great enthusiam. Wanted to learn the answer, as well.

Now, I just might be more confused with the terminology that is being used. :confused:

Can someone clear up what is meant by the following terms:

End grain
Face grain
Long grain
Side grain
Cross grain

I'm sure some of these terms are used interchangeably...but after reading this thread, I'm confused at which is which!! :confused:

Aside from the terminology, I was provided with the following link which I found to be quite useful.

http://www.dallaswoodturners.com/NEW...s_from_Log.PDF (http://www.dallaswoodturners.com/NEWSLETTERS/2006/Bowl_Blanks_from_Log.PDF)

[joe greiner]

It'd be great if we could all adopt a common terminology, but don't hold your breath.

As used in the thread so far, it looks like "end grain" and "long grain" refer to mounting the blank with the wood fibers parallel to the lathe axis. "Face grain," "side grain", and "cross grain" refer to mounting the blank with the wood fibers perpendicular to the lathe axis. Of course, I could be wrong.

As Humpty Dumpty said, "When I use a word, it means exactly what I want it to mean; nothing more, nothing less." Or something like that.

Good luck.

Joe

[Tom Hamilton]

Hi Greely:

For a first post you hit a home run! The link to the DFW Turner's is a good one as their site is full of good links and instructional pieces.

Welcome to the Creek!

Thanks, Tom, in Houston

[Glenn Hodges]

I think long grain is a type of rice.

[Bernie Weishapl]

I think long grain is a type of rice.

ROFLOL, Glenn that was good.

[Dean Thomas]

Now, I just might be more confused with the terminology that is being used. :confused:

Can someone clear up what is meant by the following terms:

End grain
Face grain
Long grain
Side grain
Cross grain

I'm sure some of these terms are used interchangeably...
Yes, some of them are used interchangeably, but that doesn't make it right! :rolleyes:

Mentally, latch onto a 4' length of 2x8. Got it? If it's whacked off an 8 foot piece, one end is likely green or blue or some other color of sealant or product marking. And if you got it from big orange, it's likely got a staple in it with a bar code. That scruffy wood stuff you're looking at is end grain. It is the exposed portion of chopped off "long grain". "Long grain" is someone's way of telling you that the piece was cut lengthwise being the direction of the grain. From what I've read, this is usually a means of explaining grain direction more than anything else. ALL grain is long if it's still in the tree. :cool:

Same chunk of 2x8, the "8" part would normally be considered face grain and the 2" portion would be considered side grain. Same for a plank of 1x12x48 wood. These both cut pretty much the same as you're talking about the same grain orientation. This is one of the joys of segmented turning. One usually ends up cutting mostly side or face grain instead of end grain.

Cross grain has a couple of different meanings, again so far as I've experienced. The main usage I've seen is actually about the same as telling someone to cross-cut the piece.

There is another "grain" term that's a fun one. Interlocked grain is one where the wood does not split cleanly because the fibers (them what makes up the "grain" in the first place) are tangles and tightly glued together. Elm is one really good example. Hickory and pecan are related to each other, but one is more interlocked than the other and makes for a stronger wood, if that's what you're looking for. I'm pretty sure that's the hickory characteristic and that it's a primary reason for using that wood for hammer and axe handles.

Any tree biologists out there than can confirm or affirm? Or refute?!?!?:)

Hope that helps. Ain't English wunnerful?

[Greely Bryan]

Nice description of the various grains, Dean.

Thanks, guys...that helps out a lot.