I have air!

[Bill Grumbine]

Good afternoon all

Last June or July, I forget which now, I embarked upon the project of piping the shop so that I would have compressed air available all over the shop without having to drag my racken fracken compressor all over the place, as I have in the past. Actually the concept for this layout goes all the way back to Dec of 1999 when I first got into the shop and started wiring it. I put a dedicated circuit in for the compressor, with the intent of piping air all around for efficiency and convenience.

Well it may be hard to believe, but the project was put on hold for various reasons. I know this never happens to anyone else here, but it happened to me. I thought I had made a good restart on it last summer when I purchased all the tubing and other connections. But it got put on hold again.

Well yesterday was a red letter day in shop development. My buddy Bob Berner came over, and we spent the day cutting pipe and soldering fittings. Nothing ever goes quite as planned, but we had no glitches after some redesign suggested by Bob and an extra trip (surprise!) to the Borg. We got all the connections made as far as soldering went by the end of the day. Today it was a short matter to make all the threaded connections and I was in business. I threw the switch on the compressor, left the shop for a few minutes, and returned to hear - nothing! The compressor had filled the pipes and there were no leaks!

Being as smart as I am, I made all the connections so that the fittings are just above my head. That way, I reasoned, the terminus would be handy, but out of the way. Well there is the law of unintended consequences to deal with here. Yes the terminus is out of the way, but since I also used large pipe until the very end, the pressure makes installing the quick connect for the hose, shall we say, interesting. At least, I think it is the pressure. I would like to think that the fittings are just not matched up as well as they could be, and a trip to the store for a better one would solve the problem, but I also noticed that when disconnecting the hose, the fitting really blows out with some force, much more than it had when I was dealing with 1/4" tubing.

At any rate, I am very happy with the way it all came out, and I am looking forward to the luxury of compressing all sorts of air without having to move the compressor.

Bill

[Ken Salisbury]

I sure was not aware you did not have air all around your shop. Last year when I was there, as I recall, there was "hot air" being spewed everywhere. :D :D

[Mark Hulette]

without having to drag my racken fracken compressor all over the place


Gull dern rabbit! "When I say 'Whoa' I meeeeean 'Whoa'!"

I cracked up when I read that... :cool: :cool: :cool:

Congrats on the built-in air piping!

[Carl Eyman]

That is better than having gas, Bill

[Dennis Peacock]

Good afternoon all
At any rate, I am very happy with the way it all came out, and I am looking forward to the luxury of compressing all sorts of air without having to move the compressor.

Bill

Congrats Bill...!!!!!! I am sure you are glad to have that done and out of the way. Now....what about the details of pipe sizing and such.? ;)

[Todd Burch]

Yes, Bill - that is a gloat. I too started piping for air in Nov. 2001. Still not done, and I walk over my single stupid air hose every day. Sigh....

[Jim Becker]

Now that you're the expert, you can come help me with my air system...hee hee! And I, too, was worried about the title of this thread and glad to see it had nothing to do with digestion. :rolleyes:

[Terry Quiram]

Hi Bill

Put a ball valve in the line in front of the connection then you can turn it off before disconnecting.

Terry

[Dave Avery]

Congratulations Bill...... very funny Ken......

[Chris Padilla]

Prevost makes safety valves that allow you to blow of the air pressure to prevent the very thing you are talking about. A guy on eBay is selling some right now...just type in 'prevost'. They are good quality and so you'll pay a bit more. Along with that, be sure to look into line filters. Coilhouse Pneumatic is a high-quality brand.

Nice work...I know how you feel about finally completing a not-so-fun job! :)

[Dale Thompson]

Bill,
The problem here is pressure vs force. Even is you had a 6" line with 90 psi feeding into a 1/4" drop, you would have the same connect/disconnect force with a quick-connect connection as you would have with a 1/4" main line. With a ball valve at each connection, assuming no leakage, the result would be the same. What you are dealing with here is FORCE. That is the product of multiplying pressure times area.

Physics says that you SHOULD experience a significant difference in connecting/disconnecting a 1/4" line as opposed to a 1/2" line. The force required for the 1/2" line will be 4 times that of the 1/4" line. That is because a 1/2" line has 4 times the AREA of a 1/4" line.

If the connect/disconnect thing is just too much to deal with. You will have to install a shutoff valve at each drop and then a bleed valve, such as a saddle valve, between each shutoff valve and the quick connect for your application.

I hope that this makes sense. I know that I am certainly confused. I've got 1/2" connections in my shop. When I change applications, I just squeeze, push and close my eyes. Sometimes it works and some times I have to try again. You may wish to practice a bit before you do it on top of a 20' ladder. ;)

I THINK that this addresses your problem. On the other hand, since I retired from sewage inspection, I'm not paid to think. :o

Dale T.

[John Miliunas]

Way to go, Bill! I don't have a compressor worthy of doing something like that yet, but maybe one of these years. In the meantime, I'll just keep dragging my little pancake unit around.... :cool:

[Ian Barley]

I first plumbed for air with a single in-line pipe in my old shop. With the new shop it was one of the first things I did. I consider it one of the most useful additions to my shop that I have ever made.

I used black iron for mine and basically laid a loop around the perimeter of the shop with a couple of branches into the centre of the shop. I scattered quick disconnects about every 2-3 feet along most of the system and in pairs about a foot apart over my assembly bench. This gives me a point for a blow gun over most of my machines. I use air tools for most of my assebly work.

You'll love the new system and soon wonder how you ever managed without it.

[Bill Grumbine]

Good morning everyone

Ken is absolutely right
Last year when I was there, as I recall, there was "hot air" being spewed everywhere. He didn't mention that the hot air left about the same time too. :D :D :D

Dennis, to answer your question, the main runs are 1 1/4" copper, and the drops are 1" copper, with the very ends necked down to accept the fittings available from Home Depot. I probably have about 55' of piping all together, with four drops. The drops are strategically placed about the shop so that I can connect with a 10' hose and reach just about anywhere with it. With the hose connection being up in the air, I will have less chance of dragging it across something that doesn't like air hoses (like I did while my grinder was spinning down last year :( ) I eventually plan to add a Flexeel hose and get rid of those plastic yellow coils that continually get tangled up. I sized the pipe on advice from Jeff Jewitt. He told me to go as big as I could for better delivery and less chance of pressure drop. Copper is much easier to work than iron pipe, it won't rust, and while it is a bit more expensive when the fittings are taken into account, the savings in time more than make up for it. Also, if and when I need to make modifications, it is a lot easier to cut into and redo.

Thanks to those of you who suggested valves and such to make the connections easier. It's not that they are real hard to make, just harder than I expected. As was mentioned, I think I need to get another hose nipple from the same manufacturer. I have one from the same and one from another, and I can see/feel the difference, although one is steel and the other is brass, and that might be it too.

I already have an inline water filter for the conversion gun, and I have (in the box, so to speak) a coalescing (sp?) filter and a regulator for the end of the line where the spray gun will be used most of the time. I just need to do some rearranging on the wall to get those things mounted and installed. They need to be plumbed with quick disconnects too, since the terminus that is going to be used by the spray gun will also be used by children filling tires and things like that, and they do not need pure filtered air for those things!

Dale, thanks for the explanation. It was very clear, and clarifies what I was trying to explain myself. I am not going to let some itty bitty air hose get the best of me though! I like the idea of valves in the system, but knowing how long it took me to get around to putting in what I have, I think it will be quicker to grow some more muscles to deal with the situation! :D

I haven't had much chance to do anything more than blow some dust around, but in the next few days I have to get cracking on a job that requires spray finishing, so I will get to test the thing and see if it performs as expected.

Thanks everyone for taking time to write.

Bill

[Robert Ducharme]

I am currently working on the air distribution in my workshop also. However, I was only going to use 1/2" line throughout (at 175 lb) with
6 stations where a ball valve/filter/regulator would be placed. I do not expect to need large CFM (except at stations real close to the compressor) so is the 1/2" line sufficient? The outlet of the compressor is about 3/4 or 1/2 (I can't remember) does it make sense to go larger lines - especially since I am running at 175 lb in the feed lines?

[Bill Grumbine]

Hi Robert

I am certainly over my head when it comes to answering the questions you ask. I am sort of a Tim Taylor type to begin with, so I had no problem with going with the largest pipe I could get. I could have gone even larger, but I was having trouble finding the fittings I needed. Otherwise I would have had 2" mains and 1 1/2" drops. You might get a better response to your questions by posting a separate thread. It would also be helpful if you noted how long your runs are going to be and what you intend to do at the various stations.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

Bill

[Dale Thompson]

I am currently working on the air distribution in my workshop also. However, I was only going to use 1/2" line throughout (at 175 lb) with
6 stations where a ball valve/filter/regulator would be placed. I do not expect to need large CFM (except at stations real close to the compressor) so is the 1/2" line sufficient? The outlet of the compressor is about 3/4 or 1/2 (I can't remember) does it make sense to go larger lines - especially since I am running at 175 lb in the feed lines?

Robert,
If the compressor outlet is 1/2", there is no point in going any larger with your distribution piping. In fact, it will actually DECREASE your effeciency because of the inherent losses at the expansion fitting. Going larger, if your compressor outlet is larger, may make SOME sense but the real determining factors are the capacity of your compressor and the size of your tank. The former is far more important than the latter. My compressor is only 5 HP with a 25 Gal tank and puts out 9.1 SCFM @ 40 psi and 7.1 SCFM @ 90 psi. It can't keep up even at 150' of line when I am using a nozzle for blowing leaves out of the garage. I have to work fast.

The fact is, I can't see a home shop application where a 1/2" supply would not suffice. Pressure losses in the pipe, as such, are really a non-factor. Copper has a very high "C" coefficient meaning that pressure loss is minimal, especially when using the level of CFM required for most shop tools. Even iron or steel pipe should not give you enough friction losses to be of concern.

Lastly, why the 175 psi? Even most industrial application only run at about 90 psi. In checking out a couple of catalogs, I was only able to find of couple of tools requiring "up to" 125 psi. 175 psi could get real nasty if something went awry with your system (admittedly, so can 125 psi). You are also putting a bigger strain on your compressor and increasing your pipe friction losses.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your whole scenario. If so, I apologize for wasting your time. :o

Dale T.

[Robert Ducharme]

My compressor is 80 gal at 175 (usually at 165) lb. 7 HP dual stage copressor. 16.9 SCFM at 175lb (17.4 at 100lb). This seems high enough to handle spray systems and an additional air tool. Without looking at it, I think it uses 3/4 out (I reduced it to 1/2 out). All the real high pressure lines are higher up with the regulators lowering it to tool needs near each of the work sites (woodworking, paint room, car lift, metal/car work, office, auto bay, and link to other garage/house).

I use schedule L copper (thicker sides) in all piping.

Never had any problems keeping up when using a blower.

Since the main storage is not the pipe (although that does add a lot of storage in my instance), I expect I am fine. That is why I chose 1/2". However, if others think it would be worth increasing the size of the pipe, now would be the time to do so.