Help Please! Rails / Stiles Routing

[Brannon Carroll]

I am pretty new to woodworking. But I am also the type to jump right in over my head...more fun that way. So my first project is a full set of kitchen cabinets. The cabinets actually came out pretty good. Now I am working on my doors and I am having trouble routing the rails and stiles.

My first routing along the edge (slotting and putting the pattern on the edge) went great. I am having trouble routing the coped side.

1. I am getting a lot of rough edges.
2. I am getting burn marks.
3. It is tearing out the last little bit of the edge.

Any helpful hints from you guys would be appreciated.

I have a small cheap router table (from lowes) and I am using poplar. They are new bits I purchased from Woodline USA.

[Chris Rosenberger]

Welcome to the SMC. You did take on a large project.
I always cut the cope before the routing the edge. This way I can use a backer board to keep from blowing out the backside of the rail when I do the cope. You can still use a backer board. But you will need one with a flat edge & one with a coped edge. A sled or a large backer board with a handle also helps with feeding the part on the table. Good luck.

[David Duke]

Brannon, first off welcome to the Creek!!!!!! From your description I'm assuming your having troubles when routing the coped ends of the rails (top/bottom). I haven't used the Woodline line of bits but in my past experience there is a tremendous difference in cut quality of the various brands of bits, while the lower cost bits work well for smaller profile cuts and are a great inexpensive way to find which profiles you use I have found that they don't provide the quality of cut I want especially on doors. I have settled on the Eagle-America brand but there are several more brands of quality bits out there such a Freud, CMT,and Whiteside.

If your having trouble with rough cuts try slowing your feed rate down, you usually can tell by the sound of the cut if your feed is right, too fast and you hear the tearing sound. I would say the burn marks are coming from stopping in the middle of the cut, try and maintain a slow but constant feed rate. As far as tear out, this is probably when you are cutting the cope on your rails, use a sacrificial backer board this will provide support for the cut and prevent the tear out.

[David Duke]

Welcome to the SMC. You did take on a large project.
I always cut the cope before the routing the edge. This way I can use a backer board to keep from blowing out the backside of the rail when I do the cope. You can still use a backer board. But you will need one with a flat edge & one with a coped edge. A sled or a large backer board with a handle also helps with feeding the part on the table. Good luck.

I was intending to say this too :).

[Bob Smalser]

My first routing along the edge (slotting and putting the pattern on the edge) went great. I am having trouble routing the coped side.

1. I am getting a lot of rough edges.
2. I am getting burn marks.
3. It is tearing out the last little bit of the edge.

Any helpful hints from you guys would be appreciated.

I have a small cheap router table (from lowes) and I am using poplar. They are new bits I purchased from Woodline USA.

1) Make multiple passes using much smaller bites with each pass.

2) End tearout can also be a function of wood grain. If the door is to remain flat the rails and stiles have to be dead straight-grained.

3) Those rail and stile cutters make weak corner joints...what else are you using there besides the panel slot? KItchem cabinets can be big doors.

[frank shic]

brannon, how many hp is your router?

[Brannon Carroll]

Hey guys, thanks for all the quick responses.

My router is 2 1/4 HP. Is that enough?

I first tried routing the coped ends without a guide fence. That was a disaster :). I have just set up my fence. It is working better. Just trying for fine tune it.

Slowing the feed down does get me a cleaner cut...but that is when I see the burn marks. I don't guess it matters because it wont be seen. I was just worried about damaging the bit.

Forgive me for this one: I was watching these guys at the Woodworkers Show / Convention ...(I know they are only trying to sell you stuff - guess it worked cause here I am trying to make a set of cabinets). Anyway, when they were doing a demo...they were making pretty fast cuts.

Are they any good rules to follow in the balance of router speed, feed rate, material?

I know you guys are laughing @ss at me....but I do appreciate the advise and on a side note - I AM having fun!;)

[Anthony Anderson]

Brannon, rest assured that no one is laughing, most of us have started exactly where you are at right now. From first hand experience, I would not have bought the lower end bits for rails and stiles or panel raisers. For occassional round overs those are okay, but anything more than that is pushing their limits. I use Freud and CMT, with Freud being my favorite. You can go to Amazon.com and buy a rail and stile set for $80 using a 10% discount. The best $80 you will spend when building cabinet doors and these bits will go through oak and maple like butter, and poplar like maple syrup:D. I run the rail ans stile bits about 15k-18k, just dial it in to where it works for the type of wood you are using. I know it hurts to buy another set when you just bought this rail and stile set, but it will produce better results for a long time, and make woodworking more fun to boot. There is nothing like producing rails and stiles, or raising panels with quality bits. BTW, what brand/model# of router are you using? HTH, Bill

[Dave Watkins]

No way is anyone laughing - I think most of us learn on the fly (ok, at least I do).

In my limited experience I've always done the cope cut first. I built a sled with hold down clamps to keep the piece flat and square plus prevent tearout.

You'll just need to feel out the feed rate to get the proper balance. Your router manual may have guidelines for the speed setting according to bit size.

DEFINITELY use your fence for every cut. Feather boards and push blocks whenever possible both for safety and accuracy. You won't have much success with the joints or fitting the panels if the stock doesn't remain flat to the table.

Glad you are having fun,

Dave

[frank shic]

brannon, your 2 1/4 hp router should have no problems spinning the rail and stile cutters. BTW i bought the woodline raised panel bit set about FOUR YEARS ago and it's still cutting pretty well although recently i upgraded to the freud 2+2 so that i wouldn't have to do as much sanding on the panels afterwards. at that woodworking convention you attended, are you sure that they were using a router and not a shaper? shapers are much more powerful and allow you to make much faster passes. i suspect part of your problem may be that you're feeding the ends too slowly. another trick i recently learned is to use a wider board, cope both ends, rip to width and then stick the profile. try to make a coping sled: 1/4" melamine or plywood, a toggle clamp from rockler or anywhere else and a scrap of wood. it will definitely improve the quality and safety of your cuts (don't forget to adjust the height afterwards!).

[glenn bradley]

I use this: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=40640