Bed Bolts or Slip type Fasteners

[Aaron Beaver]

If you have built a bed did you use bed bolts or the slip over type fasteners? I see advantages to both but the bed bolts would require a bolt cover and I am just not sure that would look good. The other fastener type I would be worried about them becoming loose or the screw holes enlarging over time.

Opinions?

Rockler has some cam type bed bolts that would not require bolt covers, but I am not sure they are strong enough. Maybe the dowels would help enough, even though they wouldn't be glued.

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=5291&filter=bed

[Rod Sheridan]

I have used bed frame brackets from Lee Valley, the oldest bed is 20 now, no problems whatsoever.......Rod.

[Larry Fox]

Take a look at Jeff Miller's book. He describes a way to get all the advantages of a bed bolt without anything showing from the outsude. It uses a captured nut and a slot on the inside of the rail. Quite ingenous actually. I have used a slight modification of it on two beds that I have built and I can vouche for the strength - absolutely rock solid.

Beds are fun projects.

[Aaron Beaver]

Rod do you mean this type? These are from Lee Valley.

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[julie Graf]

i've used these:
http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=2&p=50302&cat=3,40842,41269&ap=1

very easy to use, and heavy duty. i liked them.

[Aaron Beaver]

Take a look at Jeff Miller's book. He describes a way to get all the advantages of a bed bolt without anything showing from the outsude. It uses a captured nut and a slot on the inside of the rail. Quite ingenous actually. I have used a slight modification of it on two beds that I have built and I can vouche for the strength - absolutely rock solid.

Beds are fun projects.

I found a picture on how it did it, looks to be an excerpt from the book, but it doesn't mention the nut. Do you know how it was captured in the post? Have to be in there pretty good to withstand the tightening of the bolt so it wouldn't slip.

[Michael Weber]

Rod do you mean this type? These are from Lee Valley.

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I used something very similar on the bed I built and they didn't do the job for very long. I replaced with bed bolts.

[Jeremy Chisholm]

I built a bed using a "hidden bolt" technique, though I have not seen the book referenced. If I get time I'll do a sketchup of the joint, but for now I'll try to describe it (particularly how to hold the hidden nut):

Picture the joint of one bed rail with the footboard. The footboard has vertical posts joined by at least one stretcher of some sort, perhaps with panels in between like this:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=73121&d=1191691148

Picture how the bolt is oriented- with the grain of the rail, poking out into the post. Picture how the nut needs to be oriented inside the post to capture the threads of the bolt.

To hold the nut, I chopped a deep mortise in the post perpendicular to the bolt/rail (that is, the mortise is in the same plane as the footboard). I chopped the mortise at a location oriented vertically to hold the rail/bolt where I wanted, and where it would be later hidden by the addition of the panels to the footboard.

Into the mortise goes a "key." The key is just a tenon of sturdy hard wood (I used white oak) sized to fit snugly in the deep mortise. In the face of the key (the wide side of the tenon) I chopped a square hole that snugly holds the square bed nut. I fixed the nut with epoxy, and glued the key/nut assembly in the deep mortise with regular wood glue.

To locate exactly where to place the nut, I first chopped the deep mortise, then dry fit the tenon to its full depth, then bored the hole through the post through which the bolt passes. Then I removed the tenon, and voila! it had a hole through it exactly where the nut should be placed.

The bed is rock-solid.

[Cary Swoveland]

Aaron,


There was a thread on this subject not too long ago. You may wish search on "bed bolt", or some such.

Here's the solution I adopted for a bed I'm building now (the method Larry and Jeremy describe):

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I'm using a 3/8" hex-head bolt that slides into a slot on the inside of the rail. It bolts into a T-nut installed in the post. (You can see the block I wedged in behind the T-nut. I cut the slot with my Domino.) I cut two mortises for Dominos that are used for maintaining vertical alignment. The dominos are glued into tight mortises in the rail, and inserted without glue into loose mortises in the post.

The four mortises on the other edge of the post are for attaching the post to the head or foot rail. On the rail, all four dominos are tight and glued; on the post, one middle one is tight and glued, the other middle one is loose and glued, and the two outer ones are loose and not glued.

Cary

[Larry Fox]

I found a picture on how it did it, looks to be an excerpt from the book, but it doesn't mention the nut. Do you know how it was captured in the post? Have to be in there pretty good to withstand the tightening of the bolt so it wouldn't slip.

There is a stringer for the footboard and headboard and they are M&T jounts in most cases. The nut is captured in the back of the tenon and a hole drilled through the tenon and the post on the shallow mortise that keeps the rail from twisting. The modification that I used is to use all-thread instead of a bolt so that I only had to create a pocket instead of a pocket and slot.

Hope it helps . . .

L

[Aaron Beaver]

There is a stringer for the footboard and headboard and they are M&T jounts in most cases. The nut is captured in the back of the tenon and a hole drilled through the tenon and the post on the shallow mortise that keeps the rail from twisting. The modification that I used is to use all-thread instead of a bolt so that I only had to create a pocket instead of a pocket and slot.

Hope it helps . . .

L


I see what you are saying but unfortunately the stringers on footboard and head board are lower than the side rails. The idea you suggest sounds really slick and I think it would work well as long as you get the hole in the post to line up with the tenon.

In any case, since my stringer tenons are lower than where my rail comes in I won't be able to use that. I may just have to order a bed bolt cover and see what it looks like, maybe it wont look to bad.

[Scott Brihn]

I'm building a bed out of cherry for our three-year old next week. I ordered bed bolts through Lee Valley. I've got the "Beds" book from Jeff Miller and am convinced these will give me the strength needed to withstand the inevitable jumping associated with a three-year old.

The bolt hole covers I've seen are not my first choice. I'm trying to acquire some Cinderella medallions from which I will fabricate my own. My initial plan is to inlay these into a piece of contrasting wood (likely hard maple). My only problem up to this point is sourcing the medallions. I had a line on a 1978 Mardi Gras aluminum coin with Cinderella on it but the person only had one (I need four).

[Ron Brese]

Aaron I've used both devices and the slip overs do well if installed properly. When you say slip overs I'm assuming that you are talking about the type with the 2 engaging teeth with the tapered edge that fits into a mortise and then seats when it is pushed down. The trick to getting them to work well is to make the mortises for the hardware slightly deeper than the thickness of the parts. With this method you get tight contact between the mating surfaces of the wooden parts and this prevents racking which I believe is why the screws sometimes work loose. It also helps to drill the pilot holes in the face grain parts a bit undersized or drill regular size pilots holes and put epoxy in the holes prior to final installation. You may have to run some sample parts to figure out how deep you can make the mortises and still have the parts engage completely.

Ron

[Aaron Beaver]

I'm building a bed out of cherry for our three-year old next week. I ordered bed bolts through Lee Valley. I've got the "Beds" book from Jeff Miller and am convinced these will give me the strength needed to withstand the inevitable jumping associated with a three-year old.

The bolt hole covers I've seen are not my first choice. I'm trying to acquire some Cinderella medallions from which I will fabricate my own. My initial plan is to inlay these into a piece of contrasting wood (likely hard maple). My only problem up to this point is sourcing the medallions. I had a line on a 1978 Mardi Gras aluminum coin with Cinderella on it but the person only had one (I need four).

If you make your own, how are you going to attach them to the post? After you make the hole for the bed bolt are you going to make another recess for the medallion to set flush or will it be proud like a bolt cover would be.


Aaron I've used both devices and the slip overs do well if installed properly. When you say slip overs I'm assuming that you are talking about the type with the 2 engaging teeth with the tapered edge that fits into a mortise and then seats when it is pushed down. The trick to getting them to work well is to make the mortises for the hardware slightly deeper than the thickness of the parts. With this method you get tight contact between the mating surfaces of the wooden parts and this prevents racking which I believe is why the screws sometimes work loose. It also helps to drill the pilot holes in the face grain parts a bit undersized or drill regular size pilots holes and put epoxy in the holes prior to final installation. You may have to run some sample parts to figure out how deep you can make the mortises and still have the parts engage completely.

Ron

Thanks for the advice, I know that I am going to either use a bed bold or the fasteners you described that are centered on the rail and post. At least narrowing down to these two types (both centered on the rail and post) I will be able to go ahead and continue cutting the pieces for the footboard. I just had to decide what type of hardware I was going to use because it would effect the length of the footboard stretchers.

[Rod Sheridan]

Rod do you mean this type? These are from Lee Valley.

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Yes, those are the brackets, they work very well. The beds were made out of maple, and I've had no problem with either the screws or the brackets........Rod.

[Matt P]

I think bed bolts are better because you can tighten them firmly. I hate to have a creaky bed. I made a bed with rails attached using mortise and tenon (bolt sticking out the end of the tenon), which has worked very well. Only drawback is you have to cover the hole on the outside of the bedposts with a decorative piece of wood..

[Bill VanderLaan]

I have built several beds using both the brackets and the bolts. I am convinced that the bolts are far superior to the brackets, in that it allows a nice tight connection between the foot/headboards and the side rails.

I modified Jeff Miller's approach. On the leg of the bed, I put a threaded brass insert (both inside and outside) and a hole both above and below to accept the dowel guide pins on the side rail. In the insert, I put a length of threaded rod. In the end of the side rail, I drilled a hole for the threaded rod. I then used a forstner bit to drill a hole in the inside of the side rail that intersects with the hole that you just drilled for the threaded rod. I squared off one side of the hole with a chisel and used a washer and nut to hold the threaded rod that is in the footboard. You would also need to put the dowels in the side rail to keep the rail from twisting. Jeff Miller's book shows you how to build a jig that will correctly place the holes in the legs and side rails. The jig shown a few posts up would also work in place of the forstner bit & chisel. Numerous ways to skin a cat.

I wish I could give you a picture, as it is worth a thousand words, but I do not have access to a digital camera.

[Scott Brihn]

Aaron,


If you make your own, how are you going to attach them to the post? After you make the hole for the bed bolt are you going to make another recess for the medallion to set flush or will it be proud like a bolt cover would be.

With regards to the "custom" Cinderella bed bolt covers, my first thought is they would be hung and have the appearance (proud of the surface) of traditional covers. The difference in this case is the medallion would be recessed into a piece of contrasting wood.

[Aaron Beaver]

I modified Jeff Miller's approach. On the leg of the bed, I put a threaded brass insert (both inside and outside) .

I am not sure I follow this, both inside and outside? Did the insert show when you assembled the bed?

[Don C Peterson]

When I built bunk beds for my boys, I decided to use this method. I like the look and they are rock solid, no squeaks or movement at all.

I'm not even positive what it's called, but I generally call it a wedged through mortise.

[Matt P]

That's a cool joint Don! Would like to see a pic of how you made it..


When I built bunk beds for my boys, I decided to use this method. I like the look and they are rock solid, no squeaks or movement at all.

I'm not even positive what it's called, but I generally call it a wedged through mortise.

[Don C Peterson]

You know... I neglected to take pictures of when I was making those joints, but here are some other pics that might give you a better perspective.

As you can tell, I went for sturdy over asthetics;) The bunk beds weigh a ton and can double as our tornado shelter.

Essentially you just hog out a big through-mortise on the head/foot boards. Then you cut a tenon that fits through it. Now you just need to cut the wedge tenon and the wedge that will fit in it.

I also threw together a quick SketchUp diagram to show how the joint fits together. HTH

[Lee Schierer]

Another method is to embed elongated threaded plates in side the wood and screwing bolts into them. On hollow posts I've also used t-nuts on the inside of the post. If properly tightened they don't come loose over time.

Lee

[Jeremy Chisholm]

Aaron,

unless I read Bill wrong, I think he meant that the INSERTS were threaded on the inside and outside- fine(er) threads on the inside to match the threaded rod, and probably big fat threads on the outside to grip into the wood. You can find such things in the specialty fasteners bins at HD or other hardware stores...

Bill,

interesting idea. I may try that next time, as it would give more flexibility for vertical alignment of the rails and different footboard plans, as there is no mortise to hide with a panel...

[Aaron Beaver]

Aaron,

unless I read Bill wrong, I think he meant that the INSERTS were threaded on the inside and outside- fine(er) threads on the inside to match the threaded rod, and probably big fat threads on the outside to grip into the wood. You can find such things in the specialty fasteners bins at HD or other hardware stores...

Bill,

interesting idea. I may try that next time, as it would give more flexibility for vertical alignment of the rails and different footboard plans, as there is no mortise to hide with a panel...

Thanks Jeremy, that makes sense now. The only inserts I found did not look very long, like there wouldn't be much thread in the wood, but maybe its not a factor. Guess you could use 2. Does seem like a slick idea (thanks Bill), would break down easy and you could just take the all thread out so its not sticking out when moving. Plus you will have a smaller area in the rail carved out.

[Matt P]

That helps Don - it looks like the rail is thicker where it meets the headboard.. and what is the endgrain rectangle (peg?) in the rail?
Matt


You know... I neglected to take pictures of when I was making those joints, but here are some other pics that might give you a better perspective.

As you can tell, I went for sturdy over asthetics;) The bunk beds weigh a ton and can double as our tornado shelter.

Essentially you just hog out a big through-mortise on the head/foot boards. Then you cut a tenon that fits through it. Now you just need to cut the wedge tenon and the wedge that will fit in it.

I also threw together a quick SketchUp diagram to show how the joint fits together. HTH

[Chris Friesen]

I'm not even positive what it's called, but I generally call it a wedged through mortise.

I think it's generally called a "tusk tenon".