shop smith

[daniel lefebvre]

:confused: did someone have ever use such machine and arte you satisfied whit,it his a good idea to have one.

[Paul Libby]

Had one for 12 or so years, replaced it with conventional shop tools. I didn't think it did anything really well. Too much flex in the tables, and the tilting table for the saw is hazardous imho. If you decide to try one, shop around for used. They are frequently available for a lot less than new prices. Personally, I wouldn't have another, or recommend one for any serious wood work.

[Bill Huber]

I had a friend that had one for about 2 months and sold it. He said it just didn't work out for him. He said you really really had to plan your work so that you did each thing completely before the next operation because it was a real pain changing things back and forth all the time.

I can see his point, I know when I am working on something I will cut some boards and then do some routing only to find I need to cut another board. So the way I work I am sure it would not work for me.

[Steven Wilson]

My father had one. I learned on one, it almost killed me so I gave up woodworking for 20 years. I came back after seeing Norm use real shop tools. I now have a European Combination machine which is what a combo unit should be - not the Shopsmith. If you want a Shopsmith there's a used tool store in the Twin Cities that usualy has a dozen or so - they sit their for years as no one wants them.

[Lee Schierer]

When I first started serious wood working, I considered one because it would give me all sorts of tools, but the more I watched the demos, the more I noticed that the simple projects they would make were all planned out so they never had to go back and set up the saw for a previous operation. Most folks don't plan projects out in that detail so they end up spending as much time changing the configuration as much as they do doing work. They also worked with relatively small pieces so cuts on the small table were easy.

I think you would be far happier if you purchased good quality stand alone tools.

[Dick Brown]

When I taught high school shop, someone that had been there before me had talked the board into buying one with a lot of the attachments. I found it useless because of each student needing a different tool for their project. Tried to trade it in on the purchase of other tools at the tool stores and they wouldn't take it. Also see used ones advertised often at a fraction of new price which tells me the owners were not too happy with them.

[Bill Wilson]

IMHO they are the jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none type of tool that doesn't really appeal to me. My BIL has had one for many years. I've used it a few times when helping him with projects. It's not something I would ever want. Just the fussing around with different set-ups turned me off. It's a serviceable lathe and drill press, but as a table saw, it leaves a lot to be desired.

His first 2 houses had very small basement shops, so the Shopsmith allowed him to have several tools that didn't take up a huge amount of floor space. He now has a much bigger shop and once he gets it organized, will have room for all the machines he could want. He's pretty attached to his Shopsmith, so I'm not sure he would ever get rid of it though.

[Michael Weber]

I concur. I have seen these things practically given away at auctions, even dedicated woodworking auctions with lots of woodworkers present. I think the last one I saw sell at auction was for $100.00.

[Ed Blough]

Oh Wow not much good has been said about Shopsmiths

Let me give you my take. The other side of the story if you will.

I have owned a Shopsmith since 1984 and I love it.
Here is why. First woodworking to me is a hobby, I'm not in production and I don't have a deadline to meet.

The Shopsmith has given me a range of tools that there is no way I could justify by usage any other way. For instance I might use my Bandsaw heavy for couple of weeks and then not touch it again for a 6 months. Or I might want to turn something on a lathe but will only do this once this year. I personally could not justify to myself spending the money for a bandsaw or lathe with that much usage.

Also the Shopsmith has many advantages one being support. If you go to the Shopsmith web site you will see they have a forum, video sawdust sessions, actual training academy at their plant and their customer service is second to none. Besides that when you buy a Shopsmith you also receive a complete training manual, a self study Woodworking course using the various functions of the machine, and an excellent reference book titled "Power Woodworking for Everyone". Along with all of this they send out weekly tips and have now started a video postcard introducing new innovative uses of the Shopsmith. If you trying to do something and can't figure out how there is always someone there to offer timely and expert advice.

I have heard a lot of criticism over changing the machine from one function to another and frankly that really becomes a none issue. Change over is really nothing and in some cases it is a blessing. For instance say I cut a piece with a certain angle or bevel I can then convert to the disk sander and sand the piece using the exact same setup I used to cut the wood. Another advantage is I can have speciality blades for ripping, crosscutting and dadoing all set up and ready to mount. Mounting takes nothing more than raising the table, slidding it over and loosening one set screw that secures the saw arbor to the spindle. Dismount the old blade and remount the new. Slide the table back into position and lower the table. Just being able to keep a precise dado setup until I finish the project has saved my bacon many times.

Also there is many things I use the Shopsmith for that most people don't think about. I sharpen my mower blades on it. I can drill holes in end of timbers 10 feet long and sharpen the drill bits I use to drill the hole. I can totally support and cut full sheets of plywood with 98" of rip capacity and still park my car in garage at night.

Someone mentioned resale. And yes you can find deals on used Shopsmiths however you can also find deals on used tablesaws and lathes. While you might be able to buy anothers guys Shopsmith cheap mine ain't for sale!

With my shopsmith I have a sharpener, metal grinder, shaper, drum sander, moulder, drill press, lathe, tablesaw, disk sander, router, horizontal boring machine, pocket hole machine, biscuit machine, and small thickness sander. While I could have separate machines for all of these functions I would have to use considerably more space and I would never be able to personally justify buying them. I can also mount a separate bandsaw, jointer, belt sander, strip sander, planner, scrollsaw, onto the base machine and increase it's usability.

The shopsmith is also the potential power source for anything else you imagination can come with. Many have built their own larger capacity thickness sanders, speciality grinders, compressors and use the Shopsmith to power them.

Is the Shopsmith perfect? No it has faults and quirks. However it is quality built, will stay in adjustment forever and is accurate as anyone on this forum actually works.

Because the table and quill/arbor both move the Shopsmith allows me to make precise adjustments in both the x y and z axis. Something few machines short of metal cutting machines allow.

[Bill Wyko]

I have one I'll sell cheap. PM me if you're interested.

[Paul Libby]

and is accurate as anyone on this forum actually works.


Don't wish to argue, Ed, but that just was not the case with theMark V that I had. There tubing that the table is mounted on flexes when boreing holes, causing them to be off plumb....not such a hot deal when doweling. I am tickled that you like your Shopsmith though.

[John Ricci]

Thank you Ed for your post defending the SS. I have a 510 with "the works" and use it regularly but, I also have duplicates of almost everything the SS does as stand-alones. For the most part I use the BS and TS on the 510 and I have a Power Station set up as a permanent belt/disc/drum sanding centre. The strip sander, I set up with its own motor and stand because I tend to use it enough that it would be a PITA to keep changing out tools on one of the other machines. The 4" jointer...sits on a shelf because it can't compete with my old Rockwell 37-220. I even have the pro-planer as a stand-alone and that thing can outwork my Delta lunchbox any day of the week.

I very much enjoy using the SS and as far as the accuracy goes, it is as good as the initial setup just like any other machine. My dad bought it new in 78, I've had it since 94 and eventually it will go to one of my nephews who can pass it on to one of their kids when they are done with it. They were well built and with care can last forever. My .02Cdn.

J.R.

[Jason White]

Since I don't yet have a bandsaw or drill press, I'd consider buying a Mark V if I could find one for really cheap in the Boston area.

Anybody???

JW


I concur. I have seen these things practically given away at auctions, even dedicated woodworking auctions with lots of woodworkers present. I think the last one I saw sell at auction was for $100.00.

[Ed Blough]

Don't wish to argue, Ed, but that just was not the case with theMark V that I had. There tubing that the table is mounted on flexes when boreing holes, causing them to be off plumb....not such a hot deal when doweling. I am tickled that you like your Shopsmith though.


Paul
I puzzled I'm 6' 2" weigh far more than I should and I never have done anything on my Shopsmith where I detected any flex or movement in my way tubes.
I have using a very dull drill forced the bit through 1/2" steel in a cloud of smoke and a high pitched squeal. And again nothing flexed.

Let me clarify this a little. First I have a model 520 that comes with outrigger legs as does the model 510. These legs provides four legged support for the drill table. So there is absolutely no movement I can detect. I know that on the Model 500 (base unit) that if you tried drilling out at the edge of the table it would deflect but again, keeping the table in the SS recommended position for drilling operations it is nearly impossible to cause flex in the way tubes.

Another thing, I think all of us woodworker seem to go cheap when we buy drill bits and we tend to use and abuse them into dullness.

I heard one woodworker discuss this and said he has seen people spend hundreds of dollars on drill motors (cordless and corded drills) but use the cheapest drill bits they can find. Think about it we will willingly spend $100+ for a saw blade but we buy sets of 29 drills for $19.95. We also use our twist drill bits on anything wood, plastic, or metals. Yet we only use crosscut blades for crosscuting and ripping blades for ripping, then we have melamine blades, ply blades and metal cutting blades.

His advice buy the cheapest drill you can find but equip it with the best drill bits. I have taken his advice and tossed most of cheap drill bits. Now I buy only the best drill bits and you know what? When properly matched to the material they go through it with little or no force.
Ed

[Daryl Holtrop]

I stand with you Ed. Also I would like to see what all you naysayers are building. Some people like to have the latest and greatest gimick out there and spend all there time and money on buying rather buildling. My shopsmith does everything I ask it to. Check my previous post
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=66019&highlight=shopsmith

[David Elsey]

I have a ShopSmith that I have used for years. When I started, woodworking was a hobby for me. It came with loads of tools, clamps, etc and the projects were a good starting place for me to learn. As my skills increased, I began purchasing more individual tools. After 24 years. I still use the lathe, drill press and disc sander the most.

As to the changing over. I thought the ShopSmith made me plan my projects better and think about the operations more.

As time goes on and your projects and skills get better, you will want individual and more accurate tools. For a hobbiest, it can be a great tool to start with. for a professional. no. Therefore, weigh what you think you will build and if you want to ever go professional or not.

btw, I never bought any of the attachments such as a jointer or bandsaw, they are expensive and I saw the value of not having to do the set ups.

David
www.davidsrockingchairs.com (http://www.davidsrockingchairs.com)

[Dave Lehnert]

Oh Wow not much good has been said about Shopsmiths

Let me give you my take. The other side of the story if you will.

I have owned a Shopsmith since 1984 and I love it.
Here is why. First woodworking to me is a hobby, I'm not in production and I don't have a deadline to meet.

The Shopsmith has given me a range of tools that there is no way I could justify by usage any other way. For instance I might use my Bandsaw heavy for couple of weeks and then not touch it again for a 6 months. Or I might want to turn something on a lathe but will only do this once this year. I personally could not justify to myself spending the money for a bandsaw or lathe with that much usage.

Also the Shopsmith has many advantages one being support. If you go to the Shopsmith web site you will see they have a forum, video sawdust sessions, actual training academy at their plant and their customer service is second to none. Besides that when you buy a Shopsmith you also receive a complete training manual, a self study Woodworking course using the various functions of the machine, and an excellent reference book titled "Power Woodworking for Everyone". Along with all of this they send out weekly tips and have now started a video postcard introducing new innovative uses of the Shopsmith. If you trying to do something and can't figure out how there is always someone there to offer timely and expert advice.

I have heard a lot of criticism over changing the machine from one function to another and frankly that really becomes a none issue. Change over is really nothing and in some cases it is a blessing. For instance say I cut a piece with a certain angle or bevel I can then convert to the disk sander and sand the piece using the exact same setup I used to cut the wood. Another advantage is I can have speciality blades for ripping, crosscutting and dadoing all set up and ready to mount. Mounting takes nothing more than raising the table, slidding it over and loosening one set screw that secures the saw arbor to the spindle. Dismount the old blade and remount the new. Slide the table back into position and lower the table. Just being able to keep a precise dado setup until I finish the project has saved my bacon many times.

Also there is many things I use the Shopsmith for that most people don't think about. I sharpen my mower blades on it. I can drill holes in end of timbers 10 feet long and sharpen the drill bits I use to drill the hole. I can totally support and cut full sheets of plywood with 98" of rip capacity and still park my car in garage at night.

Someone mentioned resale. And yes you can find deals on used Shopsmiths however you can also find deals on used tablesaws and lathes. While you might be able to buy anothers guys Shopsmith cheap mine ain't for sale!

With my shopsmith I have a sharpener, metal grinder, shaper, drum sander, moulder, drill press, lathe, tablesaw, disk sander, router, horizontal boring machine, pocket hole machine, biscuit machine, and small thickness sander. While I could have separate machines for all of these functions I would have to use considerably more space and I would never be able to personally justify buying them. I can also mount a separate bandsaw, jointer, belt sander, strip sander, planner, scrollsaw, onto the base machine and increase it's usability.

The shopsmith is also the potential power source for anything else you imagination can come with. Many have built their own larger capacity thickness sanders, speciality grinders, compressors and use the Shopsmith to power them.

Is the Shopsmith perfect? No it has faults and quirks. However it is quality built, will stay in adjustment forever and is accurate as anyone on this forum actually works.

Because the table and quill/arbor both move the Shopsmith allows me to make precise adjustments in both the x y and z axis. Something few machines short of metal cutting machines allow.

What he said.

I will add to the "a lot for sale" Comment. They are built so well they never go bad. I see them for sale at auctions all the time but most are 30+ years old. I still consider my unit new but it is in fact 18 years old now.

[Randy Denby]

I've had a Shopsmith since around '82. I believe its the "510" model before they sold the larger table with the outriggers. I believe the sander and drill press/ horizontal boring was the best feature. The tablesaw was terrible, altho I did make a lot of stuff with it. I had flex with the drill/boring function as well...and used good bits. I can see where the outriggers would solve this problem, but man that is alot of fiddling to do.
I took my shopsmith to my dads (550 miles away) about 10 years ago, to give him something to do in his retirement.....I dont believe its moved out of the corner since. I'll get it back oneday but will probably end up selling it.

[Rickie Davis]

I came into Shopsmith through what you would say, the back door. I have been a woodworker for the past 49 years. A professional for the past 30. I've done every aspect of woodworking from Japanese homes, owned cabinet and furniture shops. Have done restoration for the Calif State Historical Society and run an internationally known entry shop, (Feather River Wood and Glass). At the time I was running Feather River I moved from a 3,000 sq ft craftsman style home in the Sierra Nevada mountains, milled from wood on my property, into town to a two car garage on a lot. Now in the mountains I had 10 acres with a 2,500 sq ft shop with all stationary tools. This was quite a shock as you could imagine. I had about 3 of every stationary tool. When the move was complete, I had to evaluate what I was going to do, rent a shop @ about $1,200 to $2,000 a month or figure an alternative. I was getting ready to retire and travel a bunch, so the rental shop didn't seem to be a very cost effective way. What a quandary, a professional woodworker with no place to work. I had developed a very affluent client base and wanted to keep them. The kind of folks that don't ask how much something is going to cost, just be original and perfect. One day I happened upon a Shopsmith demonstration. I hadn't seen one of these since 1955. Keeping in mind that the type of things I do are measured in the thousands, I was quite concerned that it would not give me the results required for my clients. I asked for a catalog to look at and there it was, the answer, Incra products. Having been in the trade for as long as I had, Incra was a very familiar name. To fast forward, I bought the 520 pro model, the Incra Ultimate router system, the 5000 router sled and the 2000 miter gauge. I must say, I get all the results I had hoped for. Incra has worked with Shopsmith to make their products work with our machines. It all fits up against the wall in my shop or hangs on the walls. What alot of you don't realize, this is the best tool offered that works in a small space. If you have unlimited space, you may make a different choice. I still can make all of the pieces I did before with the same results. Yes you do have to make sure that everything is planned out, but isn't that the first mantra for a woodworker? Planning, Practice and Patience. The three paths to success. I LOVE MY SHOPSMITH, Rick

[Robert Conner]

Unless my memory serves me wrong, didn't Norm use a Shop Smith in the first shows of the New Yankee Work Shop?
Robert

[Richard Wagner]

Another point of view from a satisfied Shopsmith owner.

The Shopsmith can not be everything to every user. It is what it is - a compact, quality multi function woodworking tool. It provides the ability to do nearly all of the tasks that one can reasonably expect of this sort of a power tool.

Furthermore, it is a quality machine that has repeatedly withstood the test of time. Lesser machines may work well when new but they don't survive long. You must acknowledge that you get what you pay for and nothing more. The Shopsmith is an expensive tool until you factor in life expectancy.

Yes, there are old, old machines out there still doing well what they were designed for. Machines made by Rockwell, Delta and many others but those that withstand the tests of time are also expensive machines in their own right. Go to any large mill shop and you find examples but these machines were/are significant investments.

Production machinery is one class while hobby machines are still another. I classify my Shopsmith as a hobby machine and it does everything that can be asked of it and it does it well. Like every other tool that might be drug into this discussion, however, it is only as good as it's current user.

The tool that creates a true craftsman has not yet been invented. A true craftsman can make any tool work wonders.

The criticisms about safety and efficiency are all idle chatter. If you are an unsafe or disorganized craftsman - that is what you are. No machine is going to change that. When you go to the shop please, please be careful.

Have fun, be safe. Enjoy your tools, all of them, no matter who manufactured them.

[Richard Wagner]

Yes, Norm used a Shopsmith for his first couple of years on New Yankee Workshop. After that, Delta bought in and we only see an occasional view of the Shopsmith. It was during those first years that the home craftsman was unveiled.

Fortunately, I bought my Shopsmith then and have been a happy, satisfied user ever since. The machine has not shown the effects of time and use; wish I could say that about the user.:)

[John Ricci]

While on the Norm/Shopsmith train of thought, does anyone else remember an episode where Norm and Bob Vila were showing a bit of the capabilities of the SS when Norm flipped the rails upright into the DP position and proceeded to fire it up without locking the base:eek:? I wish I had that one on tape:rolleyes:.

J.R.