Fiberglass or Epoxy to fill holes?

[John Kendall]

I've gotten to the point that I need to fill in the knot holes and cracks in this rustic hickory flooring that I'm working on. I've been doing a little research and experimenting with epoxy to fill the knot holes, which seems to work pretty good, but I see some people have suggested using fiberglass resin instead. Which is better?

I'm also trying to find out what finish to put on the floor that doesn't darken or yellow the wood and also is as durable as the wood itself. Got any suggestions?

This picture is where I've gotten so far with the flooring project and my way of getting even with the Boss. She doesn't know I got her in the picture! :cool::D I'm not too worried about her killng me for the picture, since she wants the floor and kichen done. hehe

She's also added another nightmare for me... If you notice under the table there are pieces that don't line-up. She found a 36"x36" mosaic marble piece that she wants inlayed there. :eek: I put the scrap pieces in the hole until the floor is sanded and finished. (I'm hoping this is the correct way to do the marble inlay).

I can't wait! Then there are the cabinets...:eek:

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb251/Tralfaz59/kitchenfloor.jpg

[Tom Veatch]

...I've been doing a little research and experimenting with epoxy to fill the knot holes, which seems to work pretty good, but I see some people have suggested using fiberglass resin instead. Which is better?
...


The epoxy you've been using is a "fiberglass resin" in the sense that it's one of the types of resins used to fabricate the resin/fiber composite material commonly called "fiberglass". Another type commonly used in glass composites is a polyester resin. I can't comment directly as I've never used polyester resin. You might DAGS "Polyester Resin".

I suspect that what's being suggested is that you use some type of filler (microfiber, microballoon, sawdust, etc.) in the resin to improve the handling and adhesive characteristics of the uncured resin and/or the properties and appearance of the cured plugs and patches. If that's the case, I concur. Here (http://www.westsystem.com/) is a reference you might find useful.

Disclaimer: I have no relationship with the company in the above link other than being a satisfied customer.

[Per Swenson]

Hello John, Hello Everybody,

I do what Tom does....but.

My micro balloons are red.

What I do is add transtint dye to make a wood colored filler.

Also, we have gallons of both Mas and West systems epoxies

around the shop, but for jobs such as yours I keep little bottles of

hobby epoxy, (holds the wings on R/C airplanes)

Easy to use and cost efficient.

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0095P?FVSEARCH=epoxy&search=Go

Per

[John Kendall]

The hobby epoxy is what I experimented with on a scrap piece that had a small knot hole in. I didn't use any sawdust or coloring and noticed that once I sanded it lever and put a polyurethane finish over the whole piece that it looked as if the epoxy reflected the knot hole color and was almost unoticeable as to there ever being a hole. The hole was around 1/4 inch deep X 1 inch long X 1/8 inch wide.

I will do some more experimenting with the sawdust and dye in other spots that are bigger.

Thanks!:D

[Tom Veatch]

...

She's also added another nightmare for me... If you notice under the table there are pieces that don't line-up. She found a 36"x36" mosaic marble piece that she wants inlayed there. :eek: ...



Every now and then, my wife gets what I call her "nesting urge" and informs me that the furniture is all wrong and either needs to be moved to different locations or :eek: replaced.

It might really turn into a nightmare if that table suddenly needs to be on the other side of the room or something.

[Bryan Berguson]

The hobby epoxy is what I experimented with on a scrap piece that had a small knot hole in. I didn't use any sawdust or coloring and noticed that once I sanded it lever and put a polyurethane finish over the whole piece that it looked as if the epoxy reflected the knot hole color and was almost unoticeable as to there ever being a hole. The hole was around 1/4 inch deep X 1 inch long X 1/8 inch wide.

I will do some more experimenting with the sawdust and dye in other spots that are bigger.

Thanks!:D


John,

I put about 2000 sq ft of hickory in my house and this is exactly how I filled the knot holes. DO NOT use 5 minute epoxy though. Not enough time for the bubbles to come out. I filled all the holes with straight epoxy and then belt sanded the epoxy smooth and then sanded the entire floor.

I put 4 coats of thinned Varathane Polyurethane with an 18 inch paint roller. First 3 coats were sanded with 220 grit and then vaccum and tack rag. No yellowing that I can see and it's been down 7 years.

If you want any pictures, I'd be happy to email you some.

Bryan

[John Kendall]

I'd love to see pictures of your floor. I'll show them to the better half, so she has an idea of what I've been trying to convince her it would look like.

Thanks for the heads up on the 5 min epoxy. That was what I was experimenting with. I was steering away from it, since there are quite a few holes to fill and needing time to get all of them done without wasting too much epoxy.

Did you have any spaces between any of the boards? Some of the hickory was a little warped and I ended up with some tiny cracks between them. I wasn't sure if I should fill them in also, or let them as they are.

If it wasn't for how much I like the look of this wood, I'd be complaining about how hard it's been getting it all put down. Every time I look back at what's down and I know it's going to be worth all the work. I'm excited to see it all finished!

[John Browne]

Pure resin by itself is brittle--it could crack if you drop something on it. It's primarily used as a gap-filling glue, or combined with an appropriate filler like microballoons or micro-fibers to a mayonnaise or peanut butter consistency as a fairing/filling agent. Sawdust is not recommended (see user manual for West System epoxies, available free from West Marine (not related) or other sources), although for small holes some people mix sawdust with epoxy to get the color right and don't have any problem. Another good epoxy (with a wood-working heritage) is System Three (and a local company to boot).

You can use a slow hardener to give you extended pot life--it all depends on the ambient temperature and the size of the batch/shape of the container. A shallow wide container will give you longer pot life and a deep small container, since the heat of the curing accelerates the process. Larger batches will have shorter pot life than small ones--same cause.

I've spent a lot of time trying to mix blends of various stuff to match the color and finish characteristics of teak with poor results. Haven't tried it on floors. Tiny hole, probably you can get by with most anything. Big hole, I'd scarf in some solid wood and try to make the joint disappear...

John

[Bryan Berguson]

I'll take some pictures this weekend and get them to you. The one thing that we (wife and I) really hate about the wood floors is how bad they show the dirt! Don't worry, you'll both love the looks! We have an apartment over our garage that has 720 sq ft of hickory in it that I laid. I'll get some pics of that too.

Yes, the other good thing about slow setting epoxy is you have time to fill all the holes. And fill them all, every little one. I have a few that bug the crap out of me every time I see them. I wouldn't fill the cracks between the boards. My experience with the epoxy is that if the wood swells in the summer, the epoxy is pliable enough that it will be forced out leaving a little ridge.

I had some gaps where I change the direction of the wood in the dining room. They weren't bad but enough to bug me. It was the last room I did and it had a large field of 10" and 5" pieces in it and I was getting tired of laying down the floor. Had it been the first room it would have been perfect! I also have a couple in the master bathroom. I used short pieces on purpose in all the bathrooms just for the looks. Well, I found out when doing it that way, you have to measure the width of each individual board. 1/2 a mil can leave quite a gap with a 6" piece.

Yes, it was hard to put down. I had 4 carbide blades for my SCMS that were sharp when I started. I dulled them all, had them sharpened and dulled them again before I was finished. Get the first coat of finish on though, and you'll know it was worth it.

Bryan

[John Kendall]

Thanks Bryan! I can't wait to see them. My better half (Marianne) thought the same thing that you mentioned on the cracks between the boards. I'll just leave them as is. They're pretty close and not really that noticable to me, since there is so much contrast over the whole floor.

We didn't do the bathroom (yet). Marianne found some ceramic tile or a solid stone tile that she bought for the bathroom and has placed it on her list of things to do this winter. I need to find that list and modify it a little...:cool:

[Bryan Berguson]

Thanks Bryan! I can't wait to see them. My better half (Marianne) thought the same thing that you mentioned on the cracks between the boards. I'll just leave them as is. They're pretty close and not really that noticable to me, since there is so much contrast over the whole floor.

We didn't do the bathroom (yet). Marianne found some ceramic tile or a solid stone tile that she bought for the bathroom and has placed it on her list of things to do this winter. I need to find that list and modify it a little...:cool:


If I were doing it over again, I wouldn't put the wood in the bathrooms. At least not the kids bathrooom. When they start splashing around in the tub I cringe... I know what water can do to hickory. Under heated tile would get the call.

Bryan

[John Kendall]

Tile... That's one of the projects to come. But not until the kitchen gets done! I never realized how impotant a kitchen is, especially to the better half.

[Eric Gustafson]

There is a guy in town who sells epoxy and polyester resins for fiberglassing. He insists the the epoxy resin adheres better on wood, but it is also more expensive. My BIL, Bill uses polyester resin on wood all the time, but he applies something to make it stick better. I do not remember what he told me he uses. PM Bill Wyco.

[John Kendall]

After a bunch more playing around with epoxy and fiberglass resin, I optd to use the fiberglass resin. It seemed to sand the nicest and dry within a reasonable amount of time. It also mixed much easier and gave me more time to put it into the knot holes.

I sanded to floor with a drum sander and after the sealer, sanded it again. This time with a random orbital sander and 120 grit sandpaper.

After the first coat of Bona Traffic I hand sanded the floor to get what was left of any tiny bumps out, then applied 3 more coats of Bona Traffic. It felt like I had spent a week on me knees sanding and cleaning for floor... :eek:

I was impressed as to how nice and easy the finish was to apply. It was like waxing a floor. (I used a wax applicator to put down the finish). I scared myself, thinking that it was too easy to finish. At least after all the sanding, it seemed easy. ;)

I finally got the marble piece in a couple days ago. I've got to put some caulk or some kind of good sealer around the edges, between the marble and wood. I left a 1/8" space all around the perimeter of the marble in case the wood decided to swell.

The Boss had to see what it looked like with her table in place, so I took a picture.

I'm almost done!!! :D
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb251/Tralfaz59/marbleinfloora.jpg