12" j/p Hammer vs Minimax

[Dan Lautner]

I am looking to buy a 12" J/P and have narrowed it down to the 12" Hammer vs the Minimax. The Minimax will cost about $850 more. I read the FWW article and they seem to like both machines. The tables are 4 1/2" longer on the mm. The longest boards I see myself face jointing would be 8' for an enty door. The hammer has a euro guard which seems safer for face jointing. I think both machines would have good resale value if I decide to go larger down the road. Any advice/ input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Dan

[Dick Sylvan]

There have been favorable reviews on both machines in several English mags as well. It seems to me that the differences aren't enough to merit spending $850 more on the MM. I just bought the Hammer full combo, but haven't used the j/p yet.

[Stan Welborn]

I'll be watching this thread very closely. I'm in the same predicament, with the exception I haven't quite convinced myself to combine the machines over separates. That said, I had decided on the MM if I got a combo, but then in the mail comes a flyer from Felder with "Autumn Special" prices. With the sale price, I changed my decision to the Hammer and decided to either get one in November, or get 2 separate machines. I could no longer see the MM being worth the difference in price. Then, I guess since they saw me perusing their website, I received a call from Felder. I won't mention the salesman's name here but if anyone wants it just IM me. (All I got was a first name) He asked what I was interested in.

Now, A: I didn't request a sales call and don't like them to begin with, but that's not a big deal I guess, but: B: When I told him I was looking at the J/P he quoted me the regular price. When I told him I had received a flyer in the mail with the sale price, he said "Yeah, that's our fall special."

Then why didn't he quote me that price to begin with? Why not say "That's a nice machine and right now it's on sale for ..." ? He gets to pocket the difference added to his commission if he sells at regular price or something?

Anyway, after we hung up, the more I thought about it the more irritated I became that he was going to sell me the machine at the regular price until I said something about the special.

So now I'm back leaning toward the FS30 Smart if I get a combo for the simple fact I won't deal with someone I don't trust. Still, I think the Hammer with the sale price is a much better value albeit a slightly inferior machine according to the FWW article. So... what to do, what to do?

But heck, I still haven't even made up my mind on the combo vs separates issue yet.:confused:

[Mike Spanbauer]

I hope I don't muddy the issue, but Jet just released a brand new 12" J/P contender that appears to be quite well made from the specs and such... plus it has a street price of around 2k.

In addition, Grizzly just made a J/P 12" clone as well, which should prove to be a fairly good contender (no, not directly but the units that Griz mimics are generally just a touch less fit / polish at a pricepoint that makes you stop and think REAL hard).

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of both Felder and MM machines as they are both finely crafted units... but the Jet unit is pretty sweet from the pictures and demonstration that wood did (look it up on youtube).

Tagged this for review myself as this is a purchase on my 12 month horizon.

mike

[Dan Lautner]

I saw the Jet video and it looks like a nice machine. I like how the table lifts in one piece. The price is listed at $2000. It does not look like they have quick change blades like the euro models. I'm not sure if it has a breaking motor.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRowRSeDNm8&mode=related&search=woodworking%20workshop%20wood%20tools%20fur niture

Dan

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I own the Hammer. I really like it~!!
I have not used the MM.

[Curt Harms]

http://www.tools-plus.com/jet-jointers.html
I initially thought there was $6.50 shipping but nope. I did call Jet and ask about availability. The lady I talked to said they were coming from Europe, which I found interesting, don't know if that's accurate or not.

Curt

[Niels J. Larsen]

I also own the Hammer and I like it a lot.
Take my oppinion with a grain of salt though, since I've never used anything but this.
However I'm usually very picky and I've only found minor things that could've been better on this machine.

If you feel you need the longer tables, get their extensions.
The 150x400mm aluminium extensions are mountable on both the infeed and outfeed table as well as on the outfeed side of the planer.
The tables are mounted with a quick-release, so you only need two - one of them (or both) will then easily dismount from the jointer table and mount on the planer.

I can also highly recommend the "digital" wheel for the planer.
Although it is actually analog, it will enable you to plane to 0.1mm or better accuracy if you like.

By the way - if you decide to buy their N4400 bandsaw as well, the extensions will also be mountable on that.

They also have a 800mm extension, but it needs a floor support, so unless you REALLY need it, I would only buy it for the bandsaw (which I've just done :D )

/Niels

[Eddie Darby]

I see that the initial price for the Jet is $1700, which would leave some $$$$$ left-over for an after-market spiral/shelix head.....Hmmmm.

I think the idea of a combo machine is a good one, when considering the cost savings of having to upgrade to 1 head only, as apposed to 2 heads on 2 separate machines.

Question for those who have a combo machine: How is the snipe?????

[Wilbur Pan]

I find that my snipe issues on a jointer/planer combo are identical to standalone machines -- no better or worse.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

How is the snipe?????

Sharp blades and run the wood correctly and no snipe. Dull blades or run finicky wood wrong and you get snipe.

I have some rock maple that wants to snipe if I run it backwards.

One thing about the Combos they really want a DC hooked up. otherwise the chips dimple the lumber by the out feed roller

[Scott Thornton]

I came down to the exact same two machines. I went with the MM and am very happy with it. I chose that because I bought a bandsaw at the same time. (The Felder bandsaw isn't in the same class of machine). Since I was buying two machines and it was during one of the yearly woodworking shows, I got a good deal which brought the J/P to about the same price.

I don't think you'll go wrong with either machine you choose. You should be feel confident that both are high quality and you shouldn't have any problems with service/support.

[Joe Mioux]

i have the mm.

it works well. but when you are jointing and planing 12 foot long 150 yr old red and white oak ( its really hard after all those years) you yearn for longer tables.

this is an extreme example. so don't put too thought into that second sentence.

I did learn a new jointing techinque today. If you ahve on realy bad section, just run it back and forth until you hear the buzzing noise all the way down the beam.

Anyway. both are good machines. Pick one and use it!

joe

[Jim Becker]

I did learn a new jointing techinque today. If you ahve on realy bad section, just run it back and forth until you hear the buzzing noise all the way down the beam.

Yup...sound is an important indicator when working with the jointer!

[Stan Welborn]

As a followup to my previous post, my faith has been restored in the Felder organization by a follow-up call from a Sales Manager. I explained my concerns and he very cordially assured me the price of the machines on special were in their computer system, and even if I had not known about the sale, I would have automatically gotten the new price. So, depending on shipping cost, it looks like a new A3 31 machine may be headed toward NC very soon.

Now, if I can get shipping quotes for the Agazzani, Meber and maybe the MM bandsaws...

[Gary Miller]

I'm another w/ the Hammer A3 31. Used it extensively for the last 15 months and I like it alot. Have not used (or seem) the MM.

No snipe at all on the Hammer, I have one extension I keep on the planer--but can move it to the jointer. Length of tables have not been a problem--and I've done up to 80" 8/4 stiles for an entry door.

Wonderful to have a 12" jointer! Whatever brand you buy--you'll like the versitility of a wide jointer. I now wish I had gotten the 16"--for the few times I would need it.

[John Renzetti]

As a followup to my previous post, my faith has been restored in the Felder organization by a follow-up call from a Sales Manager. I explained my concerns and he very cordially assured me the price of the machines on special were in their computer system, and even if I had not known about the sale, I would have automatically gotten the new price. So, depending on shipping cost, it looks like a new A3 31 machine may be headed toward NC very soon.

Now, if I can get shipping quotes for the Agazzani, Meber and maybe the MM bandsaws...

Hi Stan, Glad that got worked out. From experience I can tell you that some of the stuff that goes into the computer comes from Austria directly and that can muddy the waters for the sales folks. It can work the opposite way when the special on a particular machine gets taken off the list and the sales guy quotes the sale price but when he tries to print up the quote/invoice the regular price comes up.
If you are looking at the Agazzani (I have the Rapide 600 (24") model. Great machines. Adwood in NC is an Agazzani dealer so shipping should be low. Not sure of the model you are looking at. Adwood might not carry anything smaller than the 20 or 24" machines.
Take a look at that Hammer N4300 bandsaw. They don't really advertise it, but it's a real good bandsaw made by ACM in Italy. I think the price is in the $1700 range. They'll probably deal with a two machine order and the shipping should be lower.
take care,
John

[Stan Welborn]

Thanks for the info John. I've done a ton of research on bandsaws in the last few weeks and have my choice narrowed down to the MM16 and the Agazzani b20. I looked at the Hammer too, and to tell you the truth I can't remember why I eliminated their machine, but did.

I had no idea there was a dealer in NC for Agazzini machines. Thank's a load for telling me. I'll drop Adwood a line tomorrow to get a price on a B-20. Heck I can go pick the sucker up. I'm only a little over an hour away.

[Stan Welborn]

Well, it's done. Ordered the A3 31 today. Should ship next week sometime. Now I REALLY gotta get on tha ClearVue install.

[Jack Camillo]

the exact same thing happened to me with the Minimax. I saw it was 'on sale' for about 3999 and the guy told me the 45xx price as if I wasn't looking at the website... That led me to the Hammer. However, what I'd really like to do is see at least these two side by side in person, and play with them before buying. Something not so easy (impossible?) to do...

[Joe Mioux]

the exact same thing happened to me with the Minimax. I saw it was 'on sale' for about 3999 and the guy told me the 45xx price as if I wasn't looking at the website... That led me to the Hammer. However, what I'd really like to do is see at least these two side by side in person, and play with them before buying. Something not so easy (impossible?) to do...

FWW magazine did just that earlier this year. MM came out on top and the Hammer was best value.

It really doesn't matter much, they are both good machines and assuming you have flat surfaces all else is moot.

joe

[Jamie Buxton]

the exact same thing happened to me with the Minimax. I saw it was 'on sale' for about 3999 and the guy told me the 45xx price as if I wasn't looking at the website... That led me to the Hammer. However, what I'd really like to do is see at least these two side by side in person, and play with them before buying. Something not so easy (impossible?) to do...

If you'd publish where you live, you might be able to find somebody in this forum who has one or the other, and would let you play with it. You wouldn't get both machines in one shop, but you might well find both machines within a couple weekends of each other.

[Scot Ferraro]

I went through the decision process recently myself and I am awaiting delivery for the Hammer A331 -- should be here around Thanksgiving (hopefully). I think that this machine has a lot of value for the money and it has some very nice options available like the digital handwheel and the option to add extensions to the jointer and planer if you need it. This is an upgrade for me from a Jet 6 inch which I will be posting for sale in the classifieds if anyone is interested.

I think that it is great to see the combination machines starting to take off and I like the fact that there are more choices out there -- Jet, Grizzly, MM to name a few. Good stuff.

Scot

[Brian MacDonald]

One thing to consider...when the machine is delivered, it's well packaged, 3/4" or so cardboard outer container with several layers of plastic wrap on the machine.

Opening the box and unwrapping the plastic revealed that the machine was bolted to (iirc) 6" C-channel, in turn bolted to the pallet. So the machine is approx 10" off the floor. After scratching my head for a while, I borrowed a neighbors engine hoist and picked it off the pallet with nylon straps. You might want to plan for that!!

8^)

[Brad Shipton]

I have a Hammer A3 and appreciate the quality. Only negative is the fence. It is supported at the front of the infeed table and I dont like how easy it flexes. I put a mag switch at the outfeed end, and that solved it for me. The 16" model is better given is support location.

[Stan Welborn]

I have a Hammer A3 and appreciate the quality. Only negative is the fence. It is supported at the front of the infeed table and I dont like how easy it flexes. I put a mag switch at the outfeed end, and that solved it for me. The 16" model is better given is support location.
Thanks for the tip on the mag switch. Mine hasn't arrived yet but that sounds like a simple solution if I have the same thoughts.

[Scot Ferraro]

Hi Brian,

Thanks for the packaging tip...I will have to figure a way to get this off the pallet and your solution seems like a good one.

Brian/Brad,

What have you done for mobility? The kit that Felder sells seems pretty pricey -- I was thinking of going with Zambus casters (also not cheap) or some other option. I would be interested to hear what you have done for mobility.

Brad,

Any chance of posting a picture of the fence set-up you reference? I have heard about the flexibility and that it does not impact squareness of cut (which would make sense since it is a lateral force).

Thanks,

Scot

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Interesting how many Hammer owners there are. Judging from the MM ownership posts I usually see I would have thought myself a maverick for buying a Hammer.

[Chris Zenda]

[quote=Brian MacDonald;684343]One thing to consider...when the machine is delivered, it's well packaged, 3/4" or so cardboard outer container with several layers of plastic wrap on the machine.

Opening the box and unwrapping the plastic revealed that the machine was bolted to (iirc) 6" C-channel, in turn bolted to the pallet. So the machine is approx 10" off the floor. After scratching my head for a while, I borrowed a neighbors engine hoist and picked it off the pallet with nylon straps. You might want to plan for that!!

8^)[/quote

My container was enormous, I cant believe the trailer I borrowed held the weight and didn't break.

[Stan Welborn]

Holy king crate Batman! What machine is in there?:eek:

[Brian MacDonald]

I thought the mobility kit was a bit pricey as well. I ended up buying one of the Jet adjustable's for about $80

[Chris Zenda]

Knapp Combi.

[Brad Shipton]

I agree the flex of the fence is not really going affect things, unless you want to do other than 90deg cuts. I put the magswitch on when I was milling some 12" x 96" glulam stock for interior doors as I found the flex to be a nuisance. There are several spots to attach a magswitch on the outfeed side. Just put it behind the outfeed fence whereever it is set and if it wants to flex it will stop any movement.

The mobility kit is pretty darn handy, but after handling the thing a little I realized I needed to decide upon a permanent spot and now the handle hangs on the wall.

[Chris Padilla]

FS41Elite here...16" aircraft carrier from MM. Bloody awesome machine and I'm so thankful I shelled out for the wide body but you know how the saying goes, the 20" would have been nicer a few times here and there but overall, I have a J/P for life....