tutorials?

[julie Graf]

I'm looking for a good tutorial for cutting dovetails & mortise/tenons.

also good suggestions on entry level (can't afford $$$$ right now) tools for each.

thanks!

[Anchor Sarslow]

You can get a set of Marples/Irwin Chisels fiarly cheap at HD

Another set I thought was nice for the price is here.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=49989&cat=1,41504,43500&ap=1

If you can step up from this, and I only say this by looking at the internet, I would push Blue Spruce chisel set. It runs 1/8 inch up to 1/2 inch which is something I am finding more usefu in the dovetail range than what you get from the other 2 sets mentioned. You can always buy the extra 1/8 inch I spose. I am only using my 1/4 and 1/2 inch of my Marples set.

For saws, I would get a Dozuki for the dovetails. and something stiff yet fine toothed for the tennons without the brass or hard spined back.. Motises are a different story, I am stil llooking for a nice Mortise chisel or 2.. so far I am leaning towards Hirsch as a brand, 1/4 and 1/2 inch only for now.

The 3 things I have found that I would pass along as a beginner myself is:

A good saw is at least as important as a good chisel
Learn to cut/saw on a line.
Practice on Aspen or Cherry, not Oak or Walnut. (in the US anyway)

Another to add.. learn how to sharpen your tools.

I dont know how beginner you are, SO take it with a grain of sawdust what I say.

I bought one video... and it was not that helpful but did say pretty much what I did above. And then of course I had to set out to prove it wrong.. and lost.

[Don C Peterson]

Julie,

There are lots of threads out here on SMC that talk about both M&T and dovetail making.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=62243&highlight=mortise

is just one quick example I found...

The Marples chisels are OK, they are cheap, but mine don't take and hold an edge nearly as well as I'd like. I would suggest that rather than trying to buy a set of chisels, buy two. Buy a small one 1/4" or less and then buy one somewhere around 1/2" - 3/4". I would rather have two quality chisels than a whole set of the Marples blue handles.

Your mileage may vary, but I found nothing but frustration with the Japanese saws (I love the chisels generally) I finally bought a decent western style dovetail saw and immediately had much improved results.

Cheap hand tools are, IMO, much worse than cheap power tools. Good hand tools on the other hand, will literally last a lifetime and be a joy to use.

[David Weaver]

Anchor - if I might, I would suggest that you get a 5/16th or 3/8th mortise chisel if you're going to be doing M&T for face frames or with stock that is milled to 3/4ths thick. Bigger than that and the walls outside the mortise will be thin and smaller than that and the tenon is proportionately narrow.

Julie - the cheapest way to get a decent saw that will be trouble free is with the japanese saws. I would wait for a 20% off coupon from Rockler and go up McKnight rd. and get the Gyochuko dozuki (it would be about $32 with a coupon). I have one and it's a really great saw for the money. If you're going to make two cuts and then chop/pare out the waste, these are great. If you're going to do the method where you use a coping saw or a fret saw to cut the waste out, the kerf will be too narrow to get the saw down, and you may want to think about getting a used back saw or one of the new french saws for $50 or whatever they are.

Narex bench chisels are probably the best chisels in terms of price/performance, though for a step up from there, you can get hirsch chisels from Lee Valley, and you can get by with some screwing around in the corners - OR you can buy one japanese dovetail chisel and use that to clean out the corners.

You can get away with cutting the tenons with your dovetail saw if you don't make them too deep, and you don't want to spend more money on that. I can recommend LN mortise chisels, lots will recommend older mortise chisels - for good reason, but I can't recommend lower-cost new mortise chisels at this point, unless you really like to sharpen out nicks.

[Bob Smalser]

You may find something useful here.

There's one on M/T by hand. The one on dovetails is using a machine, but whether by saw and chisel or TS, layout and which side of the line to cut on is the same.



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[Robert Rozaieski]

Chopping Mortises:

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesArticle.aspx?id=26994

I couldn't find a dovetail clip but the Cosman videos are pretty good. The first one is at least worth the money if you've never done it before. Just don't be fooled into thinking that you need all the "stuff" to do it. You need a square, bevel gauge, saw and chisel.

I agree with David about the chisels. Good new ones don't come cheap and the good old ones typically require quite a bit of tuning to get them up to snuff. Cheap and good are pretty much mutually exclusive when you are talking about new chisels.

I will echo David's suggestion to get one or 2 good new chisels and learn to keep them real sharp. You can do a lot with one or two chisels if you use the width of the chisels to lay out your joints rather than trying to find a chisel to fit an arbitrary joint size. If you get a 1/4" chisel, make your pins no smaller than a fat 1/4". This way your chisel will always fit the joint.

I like Ashley Isles chisels. I have the set of 11 but the most used sizes are 3/4" and smaller. For dovetails I would suggest starting with 1/4" and 1/2", you can always add on later. You can get the beech handled ones for about $20 each here (bubinga and rosewood look nice but don't function any better than the beech):

http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/ashley_iles_bench.htm
(no affiliation, just a very happy customer).

For a mortise chisel, I would suggest an old oval bolstered mortise chisel or heavy millwright mortise chisel. You can get by your whole life with just 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" but start with the 1/4" for smaller scale stuff in 3/4" stock (the general rule is that the mortise is about 1/3 the stock thickness but you do not need to be exact). These are found frequently on ebay and in antique stores and are easy to tune up if they are not heavily pitted.

For a saw, I would go with an older backsaw at about 12-14" long. Send it to someone who knows how to sharpen it and you will be good to go. You can get an older saw for $10-15 and have it sharpened for another $15. Japanese saws with replaceable blades are also a good option if you like that style and can get used to cutting on the pull stroke rather than the push stroke. I can't so I don't like them but that's just personal preference.

Good luck!

Bob

[Mike K Wenzloff]

I'm looking for a good tutorial for cutting dovetails & mortise/tenons.

also good suggestions on entry level (can't afford $$$$ right now) tools for each.

thanks!
Julie,

Feel free to send me a PM or an email with your address and I'll get you started with a set of LV bevel edge chisels. Free, of course.

Bob's post with the links. I wish it were simply a sticky so it is always listed. Mods could add to it with some other excellent links by some of the other posters that have wonderful How-tos as well.

His post on the tenons is especially pertinent for other types of joinery as well. DTs are simply angled tenons (more or less) that fit into the mirror image of them.

Take care, Mike

[Steve Wargo]

I sent you a PM. Anybody close by is always welcome to stop by my shop. I imagine over the last few years I've had a dozen creekers stop by. You're welcome to check out some of my tools and I can get you started in the right direction. Pittsburgh is less than 2 hours away.

[Don C Peterson]

Julie,

Feel free to send me a PM or an email with your address and I'll get you started with a set of LV bevel edge chisels. Free, of course.

Bob's post with the links. I wish it were simply a sticky so it is always listed. Mods could add to it with some other excellent links by some of the other posters that have wonderful How-tos as well.

His post on the tenons is especially pertinent for other types of joinery as well. DTs are simply angled tenons (more or less) that fit into the mirror image of them.

Take care, Mike

That's a very generous offer. Now that you don't have to worry about buying chisels, you can save your pennies and buy one of Mike's excellent saws. (He makes about the best that you can get)

[julie Graf]

Thanks everyone! I love this place.

Bob - those links are great, i'll come back to this post often.
Mike, I'll drop you an e-mail later tonight.
everyone else, thanks for the advice and useful links.

I just got back from the shop and i still have glue on my fingers.

Cheers,
Julie

[Eddie Darby]

I would highly recommend that you check out the Rob Cosman site. I've seen dovetails joints done by pre-teens that look like they were done by pros after taking his course.
I think you can get by with very few tools, but you need to not skimp on the saw.

http://www.robcosman.com/

[gary Zimmel]

Julie

I second what Eddie says. I have Robs DVD's and took his course. With the right tools and proper instruction it wasn't as hard as I thought.

[Charles McKinley]

Hi Julie,

Have you heard of the Heritage School at the Conservancy? It is part of the Butler County Comunity College. (Pennsylvania) http://www.bc3.edu/heritage-school/

I have taken a blacksmithing session there and met with the woodworking instructor. Everyone ther is very nice and the tuition is about $75 a day.

[Mark Singer]

Here are some I have on dovetails, mitered dovetails, hounds tooth dovetails and M and T exposed joints

http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/mSinger/index.asp

[Johnny Kleso]

The Toshi Odate Special Japanese Dovetail saw 7" x 25 tpi
Is what I learned with a is very easy saw to learn how to start..

This is the older MK1 verson and Joel seems to just have the blades without the handles..
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/prodimg/ms/big/MS-JS300XX_big.gif
[/URL]
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=MS-JS300.XX&Category_Code=TSJ (http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/prodimg/ms/big/MS-JS300XX_big.gif)

I just one one at eBay and now now have two :(
I was hoping it was the MK2

[URL]http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=MS-JS340.XX&Category_Code=TSJ

The saw I won looks unused, I looking to sell it for $28 if you or any one is intrested...

[Pam Niedermayer]

I highly recommend the series of Jim Kingshott videos. Wish I'd had them when I started doing dovetails and M&T, first with a couple of western tools but I switched to Japanese about 7 years ago, very few cheap tools (usually by mistake). LV has a couple of excellent Japanese dozuki.

Pam