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Keith Outten
10-05-2007, 9:48 AM
A couple pictures of a job I am working on for Yoder Barn, a very old local area icon that has been given new life as a theater, the building has been donated to Christopher Newport University.

I have the last four ADA door signs to hang today then finish the hanger for the restroom sign and install it on the wall outside the restroom vestibule to complete the job.

This dual sided sign is made from Dupont Glacier White Corian, two pieces glued together back to back with Dupont adhesive. The details and perimeter cutout were all done on the ShopBot, a 45 degree v-bit to machine the details 0.05" deep and 1/4" spiral bit for the cutout. The restroom text and Yoder logo were laser engraved and the sign was then paint filled spraying with a rattle can and then sanded to 220 with a random orbital sander to remove the paint on the surface. No mask required. The last step was routig the edges with a 3/8" round over bit and light sanding of the profile.

The sign is 20" long by 11" tall by 1" thick.

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Randal Stevenson
10-05-2007, 10:38 AM
LOL


I had a picture that your sign was going to say this way to the Stalls, with a person with a shovel pointing......


seems fitting for a barn.:D

Mike Null
10-05-2007, 10:45 AM
Keith

Great looking signs. No wonder you can get the high dollar.

Keith Outten
10-05-2007, 11:30 AM
Mike,

I am posting these in hopes of enticing some of our other Members to start making signs themselves. Other than the wrought iron hangers Corian signs can be made with existing shop tools like a hand held router a few wooden patterns and of course a laser engraver for the detail work. You don't have to own a ShopBot it just makes things easier and a bit faster if you are doing volume production runs.

It took less time to setup and engrave this sign than I would have spent engraving a large photo on black marble and the profit difference is substantial...plus the amount of sign work available is infinite.

You can purchase wrought iron hangers from various companies on the net for those who cannot make their own however most of my signs have a simple keyhole routed on the back for hanging which anyone can do with a router or drill press.

These types of signs are made using a few very simple steps so there is actually very little talent required :)
What increases the value is the choice of design and the quality of the materials.

.

Joe Pelonio
10-05-2007, 11:47 AM
LOL


I had a picture that your sign was going to say this way to the Stalls, with a person with a shovel pointing......


seems fitting for a barn.:D
I was picturing a half-moon cut into the door.

Great work Keith. One question, OK two. Do you use the Krylon or Rustoleum paint for plastic on those? Have any of your paint filled Corian signs been up outdoors long enough to see how long the paint holds up?

Keith Outten
10-05-2007, 12:42 PM
I was picturing a half-moon cut into the door.

Great work Keith. One question, OK two. Do you use the Krylon or Rustoleum paint for plastic on those? Have any of your paint filled Corian signs been up outdoors long enough to see how long the paint holds up?

Joe,

I have used both Krylon and Rustoleum paints on signs but lately I have started using the Ace Hardware house brand spray paint. I found Ace's paint drys much faster and it doesn't clog my sanding disks near as bad as the other brands. I was using one disk per door sign before I switched to Ace paint, now I get at least a dozen signs per disk which is a huge savings given the number of door signs we need to produce.

Longevity of the paint used on exterior signs is still a question. I have some that have been in the weather for a couple of years but that isn't long enough to represent a good test even with a southern exposure. The good news is that any Corian sign that needs to be repainted can be done in place in just a few minutes. Spray paint the sign while its in place, let the paint dry for ten minutes then use an ROS to sand off the excess paint on the surface and you are good to go for several more years. Engraved and routed areas are all sub-surface so this technique would work many times before the face wears down which would take many decades. This is a huge marketing advantage for places like golf courses that have to replace their signs every few years or pay a substantial fee to have them repainted. Corian signs can be refreshed by unskilled labor without the costs associated with removing them. Multi-color signs require a roll of masking tape to cover areas that need to be protected but they can still be done in place.

Winter might not be the best season to refresh painted signs :)

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Joe Pelonio
10-05-2007, 1:16 PM
Joe,

I have used both Krylon and Rustoleum paints on signs but lately I have started using the Ace Hardware house brand spray paint. I found Ace's paint drys much faster and it doesn't clog my sanding disks near as bad as the other brands.

Winter might not be the best season to refresh painted signs :)


That's funny, I ran to the Ace for some spray paint when I was in a hurry the other day and didn't want to go all the way to the borgs, and I was very impressed with it too.

I just got a job refurbishing 6 sandblasted cedar signs 10 years old for a local country club. That's a good winter job since I'll bring them into the shop. One that was totally exposed will require some auto body filler but the rest were under overhangs and are in surprisingly good shape for their age.

I'll talk to them about corian signs for the actual golf course.

Keith Outten
10-07-2007, 12:25 PM
Joe,

I assume that the cedar signs are weathered and gray and that you are just going to refresh the painted areas. Does that mean you will have to hand paint them with a brush?

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Keith Outten
10-09-2007, 3:49 PM
A couple more pictures of the hanger I have been working on for the restroom sign. I still need to paint the finial gold, other than that this one is ready to hang.

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Kevin Baker
10-09-2007, 6:09 PM
Keith -

I was thinking about purchasing a drum sander to allow for quick turn around on my signs. I don't do any laser engraving, so do you think this is a good ideal?

Thanks,
Kevin

Keith Outten
10-09-2007, 7:11 PM
Kevin,

I used to own a 24" dual drum sander. I sold the large one and purchased the Performax 10/20 which is better suited for my sign work than the large sander and takes up much less shop space.

Now I own the little drum sander, a spindle sander and an 8" by 60" edge sander. The edge sander gets the most use followed closely by the spindle sander. The little drum sander is used for small plaques and delicate inlay work which I don't do much of these days.

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Kevin Baker
10-09-2007, 8:12 PM
So the Performax 10/20 does a good job for your Corian plaques? This hand sanding takes so much time.

Keith Outten
10-09-2007, 9:03 PM
Most of my Corian work is done with a random orbital sander...actually two as I have one that uses 5" disks and one that uses 6" disks, both are Portar Cable. The 6" disks with 80 grit paper makes short work of getting surfaces cleaned up and removing any scratches. Polishing is done with the smaller 5" disks using both conventional abrasives and 3M Scotch Pads.

What I need to find is a 3M Scotch pad for my drum sander...that wouuld be the hot setup for Corian plaques. I would bet that Industrial Abrasives could make something up that would work using a velcro backed material....

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Keith Outten
10-11-2007, 8:26 AM
The last picture before it leaves the shop. The attachment hardware will be installed after the bracket is mounted on the wall.
I was told yesterday that I am to fabricate a new building sign for Yoder Barn. At ten feet long it will be the largest sign I have produced and will be mounted on a brick foundation. Bring em on :)

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Kevin Baker
10-19-2007, 10:33 AM
Keith -

I'm still waiting on the pads to come in the mail, but I've been reading a little about paint masks and wanted to know if you use this method and if so what brand of mask do you use.

Thanks,
Kevin

Keith Outten
10-19-2007, 12:00 PM
Kevin,

I can't ship the Corian pieces until Monday. All has stopped here at home as we are reworking the bathroom in the house, trying to work and keep it functioning is time consuming. Jackie and I gutted the BR, installed new flooring and ripped out some sheet rock so I can replace most of the supply piping and rerouted the sink drain in the floor. I hope to have the new sink installed this evening.

Most of the Corian work I do is laser engraved. When I use the laser I cover the plaque with engravers paper mask, then spray paint. I don't use a mask for door signs because the procedure has more steps so I tape the edges before I paint then sand the face with a ROS.

Large signs that are v-carved on the ShopBot in Corian I wouldn't bother with a mask, just paint and sand the surface. Wood is a different animal and masking is almost a necessity before machining. Corian doesn't have a finish that needs to be protected and it can be sanded so easilly after painting which is one of its strong points. I have found that less labor is involved using Corian which offsets the cost of material and makes the job go much faster.

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Kevin Baker
10-19-2007, 2:15 PM
Keith -

Makes sense. Just making sure I have the process down. Thanks again for all your help. Good luck with the remodel. I'm actually hangind sheetrock in the garage this weekend. What fun!

Kevin

Leland Berry
10-25-2007, 6:09 AM
Keith; Your barn signs are impressive and have revived a similar "in the back of mind " project. 2 questions please,- Is the barn sign 2-sided due
to the finish quality of the raw material or _____?. What should I expect
to pay for Corian sheet ? In counter-top size, I've been quoted $35/sq ft.
A, say 24"x 30" fairway sign, then front & back would cost $350 for the
material alone. Sounds a little pricey, but is it ?--OK, thats 3 questions
Thanx----LeeB, Benton AR

Keith Outten
10-25-2007, 7:21 AM
Leland,

I pay $283.00 for a 30" by 144" sheet of Glacier White Corian from my local Distributor or about six cents per square inch. Your 24" by 30" sign would cost about $43.00 for the material, double that if you use two pieces. The cost of Corian as a sign material is actually very reasonable considering the quality of the material and that you don't have the expense of spray finishing or have to purchase a backing substrate. Labor costs are less for me as it is so easy to route or engrave, spray paint and sand, most of the time without masking.

My restroom sign is double sided or two pieces glued back to back. I did this to make the sign look thicker since it hangs perpendicular to the wall. I have made plenty of Corian signs that were engraved or routed on both sides of a single piece of 1/2" thick material it just depends on the edge prep I want to use and the design of the sign.

Some people pay $300.00 for a sheet of sign foam.

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Brian Penning
11-08-2007, 5:44 AM
Mike,

I am posting these in hopes of enticing some of our other Members to start making signs themselves. Other than the wrought iron hangers Corian signs can be made with existing shop tools like a hand held router a few wooden patterns and of course a laser engraver for the detail work. You don't have to own a ShopBot it just makes things easier and a bit faster if you are doing volume production runs.

It took less time to setup and engrave this sign than I would have spent engraving a large photo on black marble and the profit difference is substantial...plus the amount of sign work available is infinite.

You can purchase wrought iron hangers from various companies on the net for those who cannot make their own however most of my signs have a simple keyhole routed on the back for hanging which anyone can do with a router or drill press.

These types of signs are made using a few very simple steps so there is actually very little talent required :)
What increases the value is the choice of design and the quality of the materials.

.

OK, so you've enticed me. ;) Now how do I get into learning how?
PS. Now would be a good time because a store has approached me about perhaps making a sign for them.
Thanks

Keith Outten
11-08-2007, 7:39 AM
OK, so you've enticed me. ;) Now how do I get into learning how?
PS. Now would be a good time because a store has approached me about perhaps making a sign for them.
Thanks

Brian,

What kind of equipment do you have to work with?

.

Brian Penning
11-08-2007, 4:56 PM
Just about everything that a regular woodworking shop has. TS, routers, planer, jointer, etc.
Any opinion on Patrick Speilman.s "Making Wood Signs" book as a start?
Thanks in advance

Keith Outten
11-08-2007, 10:54 PM
Brian,

I have the "Making Wood Signs" book, it is an excellent resource to get you going with lots of ideas and techniques.

I t would seem that you are missing one machine, something to do the actual engraving or routing of the sign information. You can certainly make plaques and take care of the rest of the necessary work but you will need a laser engraver, rotary engraver or CNC router to take care of the main task.

When I started making signs I made all my plaques by pattern routing them. I have also made many one-of-a-kind sign blanks with my band saw then sand the edges on my spindle sander or edge sander before laser engraving them.

For sign work I wouldn't trade my CNC router for a dozen laser engravers.

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Chuck Lenz
11-10-2007, 8:28 PM
Very nicely done Keith, I share your enthusiasm towards makeing signs. I have made a couple from wood useing a scroll saw, but haven't tried Corian yet or tried sandblasting wood signs, but I'd like to learn someday.