First Real Plane - Am I missing anything?

[Sean Kinn]

You'll all get a laugh out of this, but after getting my junker Buck Bros block plane sharpened up using the scary sharp method I just can't stop planing things....sometimes just for the fun of it.

I'd really like to use a plane for all of my final surface prep on my next project so I've been watching ebay for a decent Stanley #4 that just need a little TLC. However, some of the final prices have kind of surprised me. I'm not sure if folks are just getting caught up in the bidding wars or what, but some of the prices seem rather high. That combined with the fact that I'm getting sick of delaying my project while I wait for the right plane at the right price has me looking at buying a nice Veritas from Lee Valley.

I can see myself headed down the slope already, but it's just not in the budget at the moment. The bevel up smoother really caught my attention, but if I'm going to spend that much money I'd like something a little more versatile. This leads me to the LA Jack plane. I'm thinking that the low angle jack combined with the 38* or 50* blade will smooth just as well as the bevel up smoother, but leave me with the versatility for other tasks. Am I correct in thinking this? I'm still very new at this hand tool thing, and the amount of information available here and at the FWW website is truly overwhelming.

[Robert Goodwin]

My wife has been hitting the garage sales lately looking for bargains. A side benefit to me is that every now and then she calls me up with "Honey, they have one of those planes you like, it has the number 7 on it" :D

I have managed to add to my plane collection while watching college football.

[David Tiell]

My wife has been hitting the garage sales lately looking for bargains. A side benefit to me is that every now and then she calls me up with "Honey, they have one of those planes you like, it has the number 7 on it" :D

I have managed to add to my plane collection while watching college football.
Talk about having your cake and eating it too!!!


Sean,
Sorry I can't reply with any real knowledge on your questions. But Robert brings up a good point. Yard/garage sales and flea markets are some great places to find decent planes at decent prices.

[Zahid Naqvi]

Sean, on eBay you have to be patient. I have noticed that it goes through periods where certain tool suddenly catch fire, but eventually cool of. I'd say keep an eye on a #3 or a #4, you should be able to find a fixer upper under $30. You opinion on the LA-Jack is spot on.

[Randal Stevenson]

While you MIGHT find something decent and reasonable at a antique store, GARAGE SALES ARE the way for me as well.

I told my mom (fanatical garage saler), got a call one day and picked up a #5, #7 and a Sargent made Craftsman #4 for $20. On her vacation, she stopped by a garage sale flee market and picked my up "that six inch plane you talked about". Turned out to be a #65 low angle block plane, that she gave $7 for. I had no luck finding the #40, so I picked up a LN with a 15% discount at woodcraft a while back.

Don't forget Craigslist, I missed a Bedrock (either 603 or 604, no picture of the top), the other day locally for $25. It lasted 10 minutes.

[Don C Peterson]

I started out pretty much the same way only my first plane was a Groz... I struggled to get that thing so it would work (absolutely nothing on that plane was plane or square) I finally got it so it would work OK, but finally took it back and got my first LN (a #4). Since that time, I've never looked back. I'd rather spend my time USING the planes than FIXING them.

After I had acquired a #7, Scrub, LA Jack (62), Medium Shoulder, LA Block, and a LA Skew Block and had racked up some usage on all of them, I finally felt like I knew enough about how a good plane should work and feel. At that point I started looking at older Stanleys on eBay. I picked up a #5 for about $9 and in no time had it tuned up and ready to go.

Zahid's advice about being patient is very good. Never get too attached to any particular tool, there will always be another one and for some reason some tools just get bid way too high. I make it a policy of mine to watch all of the tools of the type I'm looking for for at least a week before I ever bid on one. I recently picked up a couple of Disston saws for $9 and $16 respectively. The same type of saws in apparently equivalent condition had sold for as much as $60 - $90.

Let the collectors have their fun. It seems like many of the things that collectors are looking for have little to no impact on how well an old tool will perform its task. I avoid items with "intact stickers", "original boxes", and "beautiful etching", etc...

[Richard Niemiec]

What everyone else said about being patient on Ebay; its really not the preferred source for me. I hit garage sales, fleas, etc. and have done so for 10 years, and about 50 planes later have a decent set of stanley and millers falls (don't forget millers falls) users, bench planes 3-7, block, 78, etc. I just recently sold off in the Creek Classified section all my "former" users as I traded up to my cherry set of bench planes. So my advice would be to start looking, most can be had for less than $25, sometimes as low as $5 or $10, and even if you end up with some duplicates, you keep the really clean ones and sell off the remainder. I used my proceeds to buy a LV medium and LN large shoulder plane and a LN beader. Good Luck. RN

[Sean Kinn]

Thanks for all of the input everyone. I might give the yard sale thing a shot, but to be honest I don't expect to find too much in my area (DC suburbs). Who know though, maybe I'll strike the motherload.


I'm thinking I may start with the Lee Valley bevel up jack, then continue the rust hunt to fill in the collection. I need to get my current projects moving so they're ready for Christmas time, and I don't know that I can afford to spend too much more time on the hunt.

[Ken Werner]

Sean - sent you a PM
Ken

[Zahid Naqvi]

Sean, another option is fellow creekers. There is a guy, Clint Jones, here in central Arkansas who buys old tools from garage sales/fleas etc. and refurbs and sells them online. If there is anything particular you are looking for drop him and email he might have it in his stash. I have gotten a few things from him and always satisfied. There are a few guys on woodnet who also do this kind of work.

[Clint Jones]

Sean,
Hit all the estate sales, garage sales, fleas, and auctions and youre bound to find something. Its hit and miss really sometimes you find good deals sometimes you dont. Sometimes you get that really sweet looking plane home you found and realize it is cracked or broken somewhere DAMHIKT. . Here is my latest find (No its not for sale) and a before and after to show the kind of work I do.
BEFORE
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/billy_nutt/6041.jpg
AFTER
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/billy_nutt/bedr1.jpg

-Clint

[Chuck Hamman]

I just can't stop planing things....sometimes just for the fun of it.

Bump, bump, bump, another one bites the dust. Bump,bump, bump.... :-)

[Anchor Sarslow]

Clint, et al.,

Do you use the electro- reverse plating -electrolysis method to remove rust or do you use more physical methods?

I just won a #5 on ebay for $7.00 and will have to clean it up some before I can use it.

I also have low bids on 2 #5's, another #4, 2 #7's and a #607. Is the 600 series worth using vs. other Stanleys?

[David Weaver]

I might be in the "et al" group, but I am a relative beginner compared to clint and some others. I use the electrolysis method on all my stuff. It works well, it's easy to set up, and if you already have a battery charger, it's almost free - you just need some scrap ferrous metal and something to conduct electricity to the scrap and the piece you're removing the rust from - oh yeah, and $2 for a box of washing soda at the grocery store.

It works extremely well, turns all of the rust black and you can brush it off easily and get to bare metal. I wash mine off in water in the utility sink in the basement when I'm done and if I'm not going to paint whatever it is (i.e., replacing japanning), I dry it immediately and put a coat of paste wax or camellia oil on it.

There are tons of pages on the web that describe the process - you've probably seen them already.

[Randal Stevenson]

Clint, et al.,

I also have low bids on 2 #5's, another #4, 2 #7's and a #607. Is the 600 series worth using vs. other Stanleys?

<sarcasm>There is this little plane company that no one ever talks about or uses, Lie Nielson :rolleyes: <end sarcasm>
Now their planes are based on the Stanley designed Bedrock series, which IS the 600 series. I haven't really seen to many of them go cheap on the bay. They may start out that way, but go quick.

The reason for my sarcasm, is how fast they go off of my local Craigsllist when they do hit it (the other day for $25). They are the high end Stanleys, that were aimed at pro's, while the Bailey's are the common ones, and then the lower end Handyman's and Defiance were the lower entry end.

[Don C Peterson]

I've never used a "Bedrock" but I have several Lie Nielsen bench planes which are based on the Bedrock design. I also have a Stanley Bailey #5. Once properly cleaned and set up the Stanley works just as well as the LN's do. The problem, is that the Bailey frog is not as easy to adjust as the Bedrock/LN frog.

Another big difference is the blade. The standard Stanley blades work, but they don't hold a candle to Lie Nielsen or Hock blades IMO. The A2 blades are harder to sharpen, but they do hold an edge longer.

The last difference is purely theoretical (at least I haven't put it to the test yet). The LN and LV planes bodies are made from Ductile Iron which is supposed to be much tougher than plain cast iron. I understand that if you drop a Stanley, it's a good bet that it's going to break.

The bottom line for me is that the LN and LV planes represent a pretty good value by the time you count the time required to get most Stanley planes into good working order and the expense of a new blade/chip breaker. I don't enjoy cleaning and tuning up planes, I like to use them to make things.

[Anchor Sarslow]

I actually kind of like doing all that tune up work almost as much as woodworking itself. still gives you a sense of accomplishment. Maybe it is that I dont tend to rush things TOO much. Might be I am still new to the hand tool end of things as well. AND I like playing with old tools.

I love viewing the LN and LV web sites. About as close as I have gotten to any one of thier planes. I can afford maybe one of thier panes and then I have to stop everything for about 3 months.. not even buy wood. ACK!. So I will plod along with the used market for awhile. I might even develop a collecting habit.. (hope not to much)

Did I hijack this thread? As to planing. I have found I am using my scraper on every piece of wood I can clamp to my table. so my situation is similar, if not a little more labor intensive.

[Tim Dorcas]

Thanks for all of the input everyone. I might give the yard sale thing a shot, but to be honest I don't expect to find too much in my area (DC suburbs). Who know though, maybe I'll strike the motherload.


I'm thinking I may start with the Lee Valley bevel up jack, then continue the rust hunt to fill in the collection. I need to get my current projects moving so they're ready for Christmas time, and I don't know that I can afford to spend too much more time on the hunt.

I have the Lee Valley Bevel Up Jack Plane and you are indeed correct -- it is a very versatile plane. If you need something now, I wouldn't hesitate to get one. Actually I did hesitate and bought a Grotz. It was horrible. What a difference a real plane makes.

[Anchor Sarslow]

Sean,
Hit all the estate sales, garage sales, fleas, and auctions and youre bound to find something. Its hit and miss really sometimes you find good deals sometimes you dont. Sometimes you get that really sweet looking plane home you found and realize it is cracked or broken somewhere DAMHIKT. If you dont want to spend time looking, take the gamble of buying broken planes, or spending time cleaning and tuning I would suggest buying from Walt Q, Rarebear, or me:D . Here is my latest find (No its not for sale) and a before and after to show the kind of work I do.
BEFORE
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/billy_nutt/6041.jpg
AFTER
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/billy_nutt/bedr1.jpg

Just let me know what you need ahead of time and I may have it or can get it and clean it and tune it for you. A no.4 in nice tuned shape will run $40-$50.
-Clint

Now I now wherer to look for what I want. among others.. ?

I think I want to do my own tuning. that way I can get intemate with how these things work.. I think. .If you are selling some cheapy fixup 605 lemme know. :D

[Jim Koepke]

You'll all get a laugh out of this, but after getting my junker Buck Bros block plane sharpened up using the scary sharp method I just can't stop planing things....sometimes just for the fun of it.

I know the feeling, making shavings is almost messmerizing. Fluffy thin wisps of wood flowing out of one's plane is very satisfiying.


I'd really like to use a plane for all of my final surface prep on my next project so I've been watching ebay for a decent Stanley #4 that just need a little TLC. However, some of the final prices have kind of surprised me. I'm not sure if folks are just getting caught up in the bidding wars or what, but some of the prices seem rather high. That combined with the fact that I'm getting sick of delaying my project while I wait for the right plane at the right price has me looking at buying a nice Veritas from Lee Valley.

I can see myself headed down the slope already, but it's just not in the budget at the moment. The bevel up smoother really caught my attention, but if I'm going to spend that much money I'd like something a little more versatile. This leads me to the LA Jack plane. I'm thinking that the low angle jack combined with the 38* or 50* blade will smooth just as well as the bevel up smoother, but leave me with the versatility for other tasks. Am I correct in thinking this? I'm still very new at this hand tool thing, and the amount of information available here and at the FWW website is truly overwhelming.

I have bought quite a few planes on eBay, the key is patience. One time when I wanted a low knob for a plane that had a high knob, it was less to buy what appeared to be a junker, about $16, with the knob than to buy just the knob. The junker cleaned up and turned out to be a nice #5 type 9 (1902 patent dates). I cleaned it up and sold the other #5. It is now one of two #5s in my shop, one set for very thin cuttings and the other, $10 at an estate sale, is set for thicker cuttings. It did not have the front screw for the handle, so I filed the head on a spare frog screw round. They have the same thread.

Personally, the #4 is not my favorite Stanley for some reason. The #3 is more to my liking for smoothing. I did have a few of them. Got a #4 fairly cheap on eBay. It is an early type 9 (the lateral adjustment lever is from a type 8). My father gave me a Union #4 plane (same size as Stanley) that he thinks was either his father's or grandfather's. I like the way it cuts better than the Stanley, the blade is thicker. Different makers have other differences to contend with. The Union plane's adjustments are opposite of the Stanley's. This can cause confusion when using different planes on the same project.

Buying one tool with many different possibilities is one thing to consider. Look at the Stanley 45 & 55.

Though, one can buy a lot of planes at reasonable (read low) prices over time to have a wide selection at hand for every need.

I have bought and sold a few planes since these photos were taken.

Jim

My mind is like a steel trap, rusty and illegal in 37 states.

[Anchor Sarslow]

Clint, et al.,

Do you use the electro- reverse plating -electrolysis method to remove rust or do you use more physical methods?

I just won a #5 on ebay for $7.00 and will have to clean it up some before I can use it.

I also have low bids on 2 #5's, another #4, 2 #7's and a #607. Is the 600 series worth using vs. other Stanleys?


It's called electro polishing.. Yeeesh.. why it too k me so long to remember that.. I work with it all the time in my job.. ~forehead slap~

[Danny Thompson]

"My mind is like a steel trap, rusty and illegal in 37 states."

. . . and everything comes out mangled?

[Sean Kinn]

Thanks everyone for your input. Of course, once I came here and complained I finally scored a decent #4 on Ebay. She's no beauty queen, but she works just great!

Using the dating chart indicates it's a type 15 produced in 1931-32. The blade was pretty much shot and would require massive grinding(edge not 90* to the side, and massive bevel ground into the back of the blade), but everything else was tuneable. I swapped in a blade I had already sharpened from my grandfathers cheapie Dunlap #5 and I was off and running. I cleaned up a nice piece of tiger maple with no tearout, which was my whole reason for needing a smoother. Now I have a very functional #4 and I get to use the blade from my grandfathers tool that was otherwise not worth rehabbing.