Need 20" Helical planer advice

[Roger Owen]

I wish to purchase a 20" planer with tungsten insert helical cutter. My budget is such that for a new machine I will be looking at Asian imports. I don't think I have the wherewithall to restore a fine old machine, and the Canadian and European imports are way out of my price range.

The machines I have considered are

- Powermatic 209HH
- General International 30-300HC
- Shop Fox W1718 (apparently doesn't have CI table extensions)
- Grizzly (apparently has spiral cutter, not really what I'm looking for)
- Steel City (apparently would require upgrade with Byrd Shelix head).

If anyone can offer any objective information, opinions (positive or negative), or personal experience with any of these machines, I will be very grateful.

I had previously added my query to Kevin Groenke's thread of 4/4/07, and I thank those who replied, but I was afraid it may have escaped notice there.

It's time to upgrade from the "lunchbox" and get some real work done.

Thanks.

Roger

[keith ouellette]

ask this question of the dealers you are shopping at (assuming it will be delivered) If the machine does not work to my satisfaction what time frame would i have to return it in so you pay for shipping it back for a refund. This question would have saved me a lot of heart ache and anger as I was in the same boat you are in and got taken. Get the name of the person you talk to in case you have to prove some one guarantied returned shipping. Grizzly assured me I would not have to pay for shipping my jointer back if there was a problem. So far none has come up.
The larger the machine and motor the more problems could crop up so be careful and uncrate and test as soon as you get it.

[Jim King]

Roger: Contact General in Canada. They have a new machine and they say it is made in China but different labor factor and the castings are a bit different and the machine is very low priced. Same gaurantee.

I have one of their first and would accept nothing else. We dont work with play wood like oak or ash here in the Amazon and we loose one hour a month of planing due to rotating the little square blades 90 degrees. Glass finish. NO sharpening for a month.

I am sure there are many others that also have this technology but the move to a helical head will put you in another world no matter who you work with.

[Mac Cambra]

I own the Shop Fox W1718 and while I have not down a lot of planning with the machine what I have done I have been very happy with. The tool was accurate right out of the crate, required extensive cleaning and then more cleaning to remove the protective lubricant. It is incredibly heavy, my intent was to have it on a mobile base, while I can move the unit it is not easy. Not sure if the CI infeed/outfeed tables are a big issue, the roller tables work fine and I haven't had any issues with snipe. One other thing the helical cutter is very quiet, surprising so which is real nice.

I don't know if it is the best unit out there but I can say I am happy with the machine and in particular the cutter head.

[Roger Owen]

Roger: Contact General in Canada....

I have one of their first and would accept nothing else....

Jim,

When you say you have one of their first, do you mean General (made in Canada) or their General International line (imported from Taiwan, I believe)?

Thanks for your comments.

Roger

[Roger Owen]

I own the Shop Fox W1718 and while I have not down a lot of planning with the machine what I have done I have been very happy with. The tool was accurate right out of the crate, required extensive cleaning and then more cleaning to remove the protective lubricant. It is incredibly heavy, my intent was to have it on a mobile base, while I can move the unit it is not easy. Not sure if the CI infeed/outfeed tables are a big issue, the roller tables work fine and I haven't had any issues with snipe. One other thing the helical cutter is very quiet, surprising so which is real nice.

I don't know if it is the best unit out there but I can say I am happy with the machine and in particular the cutter head.

Thanks very much, Mac; that's helpful.

Roger

[Jim Eller]

I recently purchase the PM 209HH from Bryan Creech at Creech Machinery Maintenance(865-368-0106) in Knoxville, TN.

Good machine and good service at a good price.

Jim

[Lee Hingle]

Roger,

Steel city will be offering byrd shelix heads on their planers soon.

The grizzly has a helical head, not a spiral head. Some people intermingle the words helical and shelix. Shelix is a registered brand name marketed by Byrd Tools exclusively, the inserts are angled for a shearing cut (hence the shelix name). Grizzly's helical head is still a good design and cuts very well, but the cutting edges are parallel to the cutterhead. I don't have it personally but I have spoken to someone with a byrd shelix head on the jointer and grizzly's helical head on the planer and they don't see much difference.
Lee

[Bryan Cowing]

We had a wood show here last weekend and they had a King 20" 5 hp with the carbide insert head, looks just like the Griz G1033x but with a silver paint job. They put figured hard maple through it and came out very smooth. Planer was very quiet. I would love to get one to replace my old 3 hp 20" Taiwan planer. It would be cheaper to just get a new head for it though.
72999 73000

[Eddie Darby]

I have no first hand knowledge about these heads, but I can tell you that from all the reading that I have done on this forum, the Grizzly head seems to be better than the Byrd Shelix.
I've not seen anyone complain about the Grizzly head, but I have run across Byrd Shelix head users that have ridges left on the surface.

I have wondered if these ridges are due to some manufacturing quality control problem, or if it is in the basic design being harder to make, or could be as simple as some dirt getting under the carbide knives. Whatever it is, for some reason this problem comes up for the Byrd head every now and then.

[Richard M. Wolfe]

A few months ago I bought the Grizzly 2054 with the knife head. At the same time I bought the Shelix head. When the planer came in we immediately changed the knife head for the Shelix. For the cost of the Grizzly with knife head & Shelix cutter I saved several hundred dollars rather than buy the Grizzly with their spiral cutter. I don't know that it will ever get used, but we have a spare cutterhead for the planer now. The gripe with the Shelix is shallow longitudinal "scallops" in the wood, but try as I might I don't see them.

[Roger Owen]

Roger,

Steel city will be offering byrd shelix heads on their planers soon.

The grizzly has a helical head, not a spiral head. Some people intermingle the words helical and shelix. Shelix is a registered brand name marketed by Byrd Tools exclusively, the inserts are angled for a shearing cut (hence the shelix name). Grizzly's helical head is still a good design and cuts very well, but the cutting edges are parallel to the cutterhead. I don't have it personally but I have spoken to someone with a byrd shelix head on the jointer and grizzly's helical head on the planer and they don't see much difference.
Lee

Thank you, Lee, this is interesting. I just looked at their web site again, and what they are calling a "spiral cutterhead" truly is inserts arranged in a helical pattern. If they aren't angled for a shearing cut, I wonder if the Grizzly helical heads are as good as the Shelix with respect to tear-out of difficult figured wood. I notice also that Grizzly markets both their spiral cutterhead and the Shelix head--their price for the 20" Shelix is $850.

Useful feedback; thanks.

Roger

[Roger Owen]

I recently purchase the PM 209HH from Bryan Creech at Creech Machinery Maintenance(865-368-0106) in Knoxville, TN.

Good machine and good service at a good price.

Jim

Good info. Thanks!:)

Roger

[Roger Owen]

Thanks to all for your input. It sounds like in general people are pretty pleased with PM and Griz. Is this a fair assessment?

Roger

[Mac Cambra]

I have the Byrd cutter head on my jointer and the grizzly cutter head on my Shop Fox planer and the both produce comparable results. The byrd inserts seem more substantial, the are thicker and the edge has a scalloped grind on it to account for the shearing angle.

As I said the results are comparable from just an appearance standpoint point (qualitative judgement) the Byrd cutter looks better made. JMHO

[Lee Hingle]

Hey Roger, no problem. Glad to help. I researched the death out of those planers before I bought my grizzly 20" last month. I bought the 20" with the straight knives and wheels on the bottom. Reason: I could upgrade to the byrd head and still be several hundred dollars cheaper than the powermatic. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of powermatic but check the weight differences on those 2 planers - the grizz outweighs the powermatic by a couple hundred pounds. As a side note I just completed a black walnut base for a taxidermist friend - glued up two 9 1/2" wide boards together to 19" width for the project. The grizzly ran through it like it wasn't even there. I couldn't even notice where the motor slowed or bogged even the slightest. They seem to have a strong motor, I was impressed.
Good luck on your decision,
Lee

[Jim Eller]

Lee,

You said, "the grizz outweighs the powermatic by a couple hundred pounds."

Are these the two you are comparing?

http://www.grizzly.com/products/G1033X "Approximate Shipping weight 875 lbs."

http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/Products.aspx?nav=ByPart&ClassID=332116&Part=1791315 "Gross Weight 890 lbs."

Not fanning any flames just askin' a question:)

Jim

[Derek Williams]

I just purchased a used http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0454 with the http://www.grizzly.com/products/h7656 installed for 1100 from craigslist. Worth every penny! Quiet, smooth, lots of power. 20" wide board 3/16" cut, never slowed down.

[Lee Hingle]

Hi Jim,
I was slightly mistaken. The info I found said the powermatic 20" is 880 shipping weight, 770 net weight. I was looking at the grizz G0454, which is 935# shipping weight (not sure of the net weight, but I bought it and if it had 30# worth of pallet, that was a lot).
I think the 15" planer when you compare grizz to powermatic is grizz 675# ship weight, powermatic 573#. So the 15" grizz is not a couple hundred but a solid hundred heavier than the powermatic. Sorry for any confusion.
Lee

[Randy Denby]

Ya' know, I've been looking at machinery, and I've been asking myself what's Chi-Com manufactured and what isn't.

Harbor Freight? Of course.

Grizzly? I'm kinda convinced they're an upscale Harbor Freight, though they don't seem to want to admit it.

Any others I'm missing?

Probably a losing battle, but it's nice to know where the stuff is coming from.

My Grizzly G9860ZX 12"jointer is one ,if not the finest tool in my shop. Its cast iron surface rivals the Powermatic 66 tablesaw. But it lists for over 4000.00. I bought it for 25% less at the AWFS in Vegas this year. I believe Grizzly has a couple or more levels of tools. But Harbor Freight...it aint

http://www.grizzly.com/products/G9860ZX

[Grant Lasson]

Roger,

I purchased the Grizz 0454 and the Grizz spiral carbide cutting head a few months ago. (I installed the new cutting head myself. Not really very hard to do and I understand the planer design better as a result.) I can't really compare to the PM/Byrd Shelix but I can say this: the O454 does a great job. I ran 20" glued up cherry panels through it (~10). The cut was great. I could detect no ridges, etc. with my hands. I could see a difference--much like a lawn mowed in two directions--but there was no flatness difference. A few stroked with a #4 smoother or a ROS with fine grit and they should be done.

[Roger Owen]

Roger,

I purchased the Grizz 0454 and the Grizz spiral carbide cutting head a few months ago. (I installed the new cutting head myself. Not really very hard to do and I understand the planer design better as a result.) I can't really compare to the PM/Byrd Shelix but I can say this: the O454 does a great job. I ran 20" glued up cherry panels through it (~10). The cut was great. I could detect no ridges, etc. with my hands. I could see a difference--much like a lawn mowed in two directions--but there was no flatness difference. A few stroked with a #4 smoother or a ROS with fine grit and they should be done.

Thanks, Grant. This is great info and should make my decision easier.

Roger