Outfitting a new, minimal Neanderthal shop

[James Carmichael]

Well, I am now hooked on handtools and am ready to make the jump, especially as I am sneezing my head off this morning after creating mounds of dust ripping 2x4s into 2x2s last night (yes, I use a DC).

Does anyone have a link or recommendations for a minimal traditional shop? Planes, chisels, especially curious about saws. I already have a good bench. My budget is not going to allow for the high-end stuff like Clifton or LN planes.

Unfortunately, due to circumstances, I'm going to be putting my house on the market soon and moving to smaller digs (cave?), so it will surely be a small garage shop.

No specific projects in mind, except maybe a chest of drawers.

Thanks

[Matt Woodworth]

This seems like a nice way to jump start your plane collection.

ebay link (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3271584625&category=13874)

(I'm not connected with the seller)

[Sean Evoy]

That's a wildly open-ended question, but I know the feeling, so here is my best attempt at an answer. With hand tools, if you are considering buying modern versions, buy the best you can afford. Anything less will simply lead to frustration. Lee Valley sells good planes that are less expensive than the L-N versions but FAR better than the modern Stanleys. Two-Cherry chisels, or the exact same chisels under the Hirsch brand, are well priced and get rave reviews. Japanese-style pull saws are cheaper than L-N or Adria back saws, but I learned on push saws so I invested in a set of Adrias.

If you are confident that you can evaluate older tools, then you can save money on older saws and bench planes. There are lots of people who have offered advice on restoring planes and sharpening saws on this board.

My point to my friends who question the money I spend on hand tools is always this. You wouldn't consider a $300 bench planer/band saw/table saw to be expensive, right? In fact, at that price you might seriously consider what corners the manufacturer cut to make such a price point. But with hand tools from L-N, Clifton, or Lee Valley, for $300 you are buying something that will work pretty much perfectly out-of-the-box and will (with care) outlast you.

[Tom Stovell]

James,
The library would be a good place to start to equip a small shop. There are specific books that deal with that subject. FWW has a 'Tools and Shops' issue that could help as well.
A more specific answer would require some information on what you plan to build in this shop.

Good Luck,
Tom

[Mark Singer]

James,
My favorite smoothing plane is the Primus reform smoother...it is hard to beat at any price...here is the link:http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/planes_nt.htm
The Ashley Iles chisels or Hirsch from Lee Valley are great also. The Lee Valley planes are excellent as well and all of these tools are solid values and quality you will never need to upgrade. I also have Lie Nielsens and Cliftons so I can make the comparison.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Rather than talk about brands and pricing I'm going to start with some basic information. The foundation of a Neanderthal shop is based upon accurate marking and measuring so that is where I'd start. The advantage is than there is quite a bit of crossover to the things you would also use for power tool work so buy the best you can afford. I've also listed a few other "must haves" to get you started. Remember that good tools don't come cheap and you'll always regret purchasing inferior tools which have to be replaced later with something that works well. It's better to do without and buy as you can afford items rather than be dissatisfied with junk you have to replace. Antique tool meets and auctions are a great source of decent quality hand tools and can save you lots of money. The side benefit is that many of the dealers will be happy to teach you a huge amount about the tools and their use.

Marking and measuring- 12" combination square, 2 bevel squares 6-8", 6-8" try square, Striking (marking ) knife, cutting gage, marking gage, mortising gage, 4-6" engineers square, Lee Valley saddle square

Saws- 18-26" crosscut saw 8-10tpi, 22-28" rip saw 5-7tpi, Dovetail (rip toothed) backsaw 14-16tpi, carcass saw (crosscut toothed) 12-14tpi, tenon saw 12-14tpi

Chisels- bench chisels (bevel edged) 1/4"-3/8"-1/2"-3/4"-1", Mostising chisels 1/4"-3/8" -you can add others later

Planes- low angle block plane, #4 or #4 1/2 sized smoother, #5 jack, #7 jointer, shoulder plane, #71 or equivalent router plane

Misc- mallet, 24" or 36" straight edge, awl, spokeshave, card scrapers and burnisher, ****Good book on hand tools and thier use and care


While this list is nowhere near complete, it should give you a good start down the slippery slope. Again, buy the best you can afford and if you have questions about specific tools and choices, the folks here are always happy to give their opinions.

[Dan Clermont in Burnaby]

I think Dave's list is pretty accurate and will stress you will never regret buying quality and buying quality once is far cheaper then buying jump and regretting it.

You can get allot of stuff done with just that list. Matter of fact, that is pretty much what I have used for the past 3 years although I just bought a b*nds*w late last year to help me out a little.

Dan Clermont in Burnaby

[James Carmichael]

I think Dave's list is pretty accurate and will stress you will never regret buying quality and buying quality once is far cheaper then buying jump and regretting it.

You can get allot of stuff done with just that list. Matter of fact, that is pretty much what I have used for the past 3 years although I just bought a b*nds*w late last year to help me out a little.

Dan Clermont in Burnaby

Thank you, Dave, that's exactly the kind of information I'm looking for. As Dan said, I'm not looking so much for specific brands as what do I really need for a basic shop from someone whose done it and knows what you really need.

Sorry if I confused the question by referencing brands.

[Matthew Springer]

I would second what Dave said about layout and marking. Getting things square, flat and true is 80% of the fight. Concentrate on layout and marking and clamping / jigs / bench to get good straight lumber. You can do without anyting made out of rosewood (I make an exception for my incredible good value blue spruce toolworks markign knife, which I love).

my really short list of stuff I actually use:

Layout
a really good narrow Marking knife (you want to get one with a super narrow blade)
a really good mortise gauge (the new LV looks killer)
engineer's squares in 2" / 6"
A good 36" steel straight edge (a steel ruler is plenty straight)
A couple good steel rulers
two pairs of dividers

Planing
A jack plane sharpened pseudo-scrub style
A jointer plane
A smoother plane
A LA block plane
A rabbet plane

Saws
A medium quality ryoba
A medium quality dozuki
A carpenters grade panel saw

Chisels:
Tough to beat LV butt chisels with plastic handles for the $$

Sharpening
DMT Duosharp combo plate / coarse / Xfine get the BIG size plate 11 x3

A goodly pile of straight grained clear douglas fir to make all your jigs / shooting boards / sawhorses / bench

combo squares are OK, but you need to spend alot more $$ to get as funcitonal a tool as a separate depth gauge + miter square + square

For my money, almost nobody makes more functional tools than Lee Valley.

Also, I know it's heresy on this board, but an electric router is _awfully_ handy. As is a small band saw. You DO NOT need the electric jointer / table saw and planer, but the band saw and router are kinda useful.

[James Carmichael]

I would second what Dave said about layout and marking. Getting things square, flat and true is 80% of the fight. Concentrate on layout and marking and clamping / jigs / bench to get good straight lumber. You can do without anyting made out of rosewood (I make an exception for my incredible good value blue spruce toolworks markign knife, which I love).

my really short list of stuff I actually use:

Layout
a really good narrow Marking knife (you want to get one with a super narrow blade)
a really good mortise gauge (the new LV looks killer)
engineer's squares in 2" / 6"
A good 36" steel straight edge (a steel ruler is plenty straight)
A couple good steel rulers
two pairs of dividers

Planing
A jack plane sharpened pseudo-scrub style
A jointer plane
A smoother plane
A LA block plane
A rabbet plane

Saws
A medium quality ryoba
A medium quality dozuki
A carpenters grade panel saw

Chisels:
Tough to beat LV butt chisels with plastic handles for the $$

Sharpening
DMT Duosharp combo plate / coarse / Xfine get the BIG size plate 11 x3

A goodly pile of straight grained clear douglas fir to make all your jigs / shooting boards / sawhorses / bench

combo squares are OK, but you need to spend alot more $$ to get as funcitonal a tool as a separate depth gauge + miter square + square

For my money, almost nobody makes more functional tools than Lee Valley.

Also, I know it's heresy on this board, but an electric router is _awfully_ handy. As is a small band saw. You DO NOT need the electric jointer / table saw and planer, but the band saw and router are kinda useful.

Thanks for the info, Matthew.

Fortunately, already got the router (2hp PC plunge ), got RID of my godawful craftsman table saw. It did occur to me that a bandsaw would probably be more useful.

What is the DMT duosharp and where do you find it?

As a lifelong hunter, I am a bit fanatical (Neanderthal?) about sharpness in cutting tools.

I used the ScarySharp method on a 2 3/8" Anant plane iron I got for the old Type 10 jointer I bought on Ebay. I knew nothing about them and bought one with the lat adjustment broken off of the frog. Despite this and working left-handed (I clamped the piece with the grain running the wrong way for a righty), I got lovely ribbons and a glass edge when I assaulted my first piece of hardwood with it last night, the rough edge of an 8' 4/4 maple. I'm sure my planing technique will need some work, the board was low at start & end.

For fellow beginning Neanders: The depth adjusment does work with the lever cap locked now that I gave everything a bath in phosphoric acid to remove the rust followed by lubing the threads of the depth adjustment screw (the disolved rust almost froze it).

For fellow fitness buffs: Shoving an 8 lb(?) chunk of iron up and down an 8' board for 30 minutes is an excellent workout:-)

[Matthew Springer]

What is the DMT duosharp and where do you find it?

As a lifelong hunter, I am a bit fanatical (Neanderthal?) about sharpness in cutting tools.

If you're already into scary sharp, you won't need the Diamond plate. It's mainly used inmy microshop for keeping things (like waterstones) flat. I think Highland Hardware sells them. They're basically a back to back diamond plates with one side coarse (~400) and the other side Xfine (~1000).

But if you're using scary sharp, you've already got your flat surface problem solved. If you just want a coarse stone for initial grinding, the Norton diamond plate is probably the way to go.

One thing I forgot to mention was hand screw clamps. You can make your own, but the Jorgies style clamps are REALLY usefull, esp. if (like me) you don't have a real bench.

-Matthew

[Wendell Wilkerson]

I would second what Dave said about layout and marking. Getting things square, flat and true is 80% of the fight. Concentrate on layout and marking and clamping / jigs / bench to get good straight lumber. You can do without anyting made out of rosewood (I make an exception for my incredible good value blue spruce toolworks markign knife, which I love).

my really short list of stuff I actually use:

Layout
a really good narrow Marking knife (you want to get one with a super narrow blade)
a really good mortise gauge (the new LV looks killer)


Matthew, you had me all excited for a second. I thought LV was making a new mortice gauge. I believe the item you're talking about is a marking gauge since it only has one cutter. A true mortice gauge woulde have two cutters/pins. Not trying to be too picky, just want to make sure we don't confuse James.

Wendell

[Marc Hills]

I too have to agree with Dave Anderson here; any discussion of something purporting to be a "complete" (albeit minimal) woodworking tool kit has to start with good marking and measuring tools.

I know, I know, they just aren't sexy like a nice plane or a really fine chisel or dovetail saw (unless they're one of Dave's own marking guages), but without truly accurate marking and measuring, nothing else in woodworking matters.

Ok, that last statement was a little extreme. Sometimes the end result isn't the only thing that is important. After all, when I NEED to spend some time in the workshop, I often say to my wife are: "Honey, I'm going out to make some saw dust."

But to the extent that you want to ultimately make something other than dust and shavings, something truly worth making, measuring and marking tools really belong at the top of the list.

[Jeff Kurtz]

Dave,

Great list! I'd just modify it on a couple points.

Saws: add a coping saw.

Squares: if money's tight and I could own only one square it would, without a doubt, be a 12" Starrett combo. Nothing beats it for accuracy or versatility.

Jeff

[Mark Singer]

Meassuring and marking tools.....How could I argue with that? A sketch pad and a pencil....don't forget those...It can be sexy!!