finishing pine t&g ceiling??

[Diane Maluso]

A friend of mine is working on remodeling her house and asked me to pose this question. She's got cathedral ceilings and has insulated and sheetrocked. Over that she's planning on pine tongue and groove. So should she finish the pine before putting it up? Does she have to finish the backside? What finish/sealer is best? Methods? Any/all advice is welcome here since I've never done it and she's more clueless than me by far.

Thanks.

Diane

[Jim Izat]

Hey Diane,

I've seen it done many ways. I've seen it oiled, or polyurethaned, and I've seen it painted. It depends whether you friend would like the natural wood grain or the more traditional victorian look. If she goes with a painted finished, I'd suggest using Kilz or some similiar stain blocking primer (you can get water based Kilz if she's going to use latex) before painting. The resin in the knots and pockets will bleed through. I'm kinda partial to a high gloss paint finish on t&g as it really highligts all the reveals, and is the easiest to keep clean.

Which ever finishing route she chooses she should finished all exposed surfaces (even the end grain) to maximize the possibility that it'll stay as flat as can be.

Jim Izat

[Glenn Clabo]

Diane,
I'll leave the "best finish" question to someone else cuz it's a matter of taste and I don't have any. :( However, I will remark on the finishing before and both sides question.

I'd finish it before and on both sides...especially because it's up high and subject to wide changes in temp, and humidity . That would ensure that the wood absorbs humidity and reacts uniformly.

This is based on experience not only with building furniture...but when I was young I built and installed a pine kitchen with an old french carpenter who lectured me on why you should always do the same thing to all sides of wood so it can do it's things equally. That was more than 40 years ago...and there isn't a crack or twist in it still.

FWIW

[Dave Hammelef]

I have not done this myself my fatherinlaw did. He poly coated after installation. Been up a few years and seems fine. Most finishes do not stop moisture anyhow. Not sure how much airflow would be on the back side if its going over sheetrock anyhow. That said, I would finish before putting it up. I hate working over my head and any would show unfinished spots.

So now that I have contradicted myself I leave you to sort out this mess.

Dave

[Dave Anderson]

Hi Di!

It sounds like your friend is planning on "painting" the T&G boards, yes?

I would prime <u>all</u> sides of every board, including the end grain and especially inside the T and G! I would use an oil based primer, like Kilz which is pretty darn good. Top coat with 2 coats of a good latex semi-gloss or hi-gloss.

Your friend won't have to worry about that ceiling for YEARS!

Stay off that ladder for a few more weeks. ;)

[Jason Roehl]

Sounds to me like poly is the order of the day, not paint! If it were ME, I'd put the stuff up, then spray it all with waterborne poly from Sherwin-Williams. Or, one could do it beforehand with a brush for the edges, then a mohair pad for the wide surface. Or, spray it before it goes up. Not being sealed on the back shouldn't be a problem if there's no leak.

Jason

Self-employed painter

[Diane Maluso]

ok... my friend says no paint. She wants it to look like pine. So now the question is... penetrating oil or poly? What's the difference in the result?

Thanks folks. This is helping.

Diane

[Bob Boake]

While I don't think it would hurt to finish both sides, I'm not sure it would reap any benefits. Any warpage would be somewhat controlled by the t&g pattern and being on the ceiling I'm not sure that you could really tell anyway .

Most sheetrock ceilings develope a sag between joists over time and we never notice it.

When glueing up panels you alternate grain cupping patterns to prevent warpage but when you frame a wall you line up the 2x4s so that they all bow the same direction. If you have a choice of how to install, I would have the grain pattern facing down(like a U) on the theory that the raised edges cast shadows and a crest in the center of the board would be less perceptible.

Paint before or after. Going to have to be on the ladder anyway to repair nail holes and any other wounds inflicted during installation.

I'm fond of the white pickling look on pine with a waterbased poly so that it does not amber. Just pers preference.

[Jason Roehl]

Originally posted by Diane Maluso
ok... my friend says no paint. She wants it to look like pine. So now the question is... penetrating oil or poly? What's the difference in the result?

Thanks folks. This is helping.

Diane

A waterborne poly will deepen the color up front, but stay that way--totally clear. Any oil product you put on there will yellow over time. I personally like the look of knotty pine with only clear WB poly on it. (Our co. has put hundreds of gallons of WB poly on both white and yellow pine in log homes). Plus, you want to keep the ceiling light to aid in light diffusion.

The suggestion that you orient the boards so that they crown instead of cup (from a floor vantage point) is a good one, but depending on the manufacture of the wood, you may not have a choice. Most T&G pine I've seen has a different profile on each side.

Jason

[Paul Kunkel]

Diane, I've put up acres of 1x6 t&g in our house, both ceilings and walls, pine and aspen. All prepainted with waterborne poly on one side. I've been here 28 yrs with no problems. I find that I get some yellowing upon application, and some more over time, but it's a 'mellow yellow'. :rolleyes: . Paul

[Steve Schoene]

I don't like oil finishes on pine, they tend to "dry out" over a few years and need a refresher coat, a bummer on a ceiling.

But going to a film finish shouldn't automatically mean poly. I would use shellac. (Zinsser SealCoat would be great in this application)

Three coats could be applied in the time it takes to wait for the first coat of poly to dry. Shellac is a superior stain blocker, and deters moisture movement better than varnish or poly. And its not going to be walked on on the ceiling, nor is anyone going to spill a martini on it. I'd put at least one coat on the back. Only secret in applying is to brush quickly without going back over spots just painted. With 2 lb. cut (Seal Coat out of the can) you can apply the second coat about 1 hr. after the first, and the third coat about 2 hours after the second.

Definately finish before applying. And, with shellac, if there is a ding during installation, it is easy to blend in a patch.

[John Wadsworth]

We finished both sides of our pine t&g ceilings with one coat of poly, then gave the show side a second coat. So far, so good after ten years.

What poly? McCloskey's satin, but I'm not that choosy.

[Jason Roehl]

Originally posted by Steve Schoene
Three coats could be applied in the time it takes to wait for the first coat of poly to dry. Shellac is a superior stain blocker, and deters moisture movement better than varnish or poly. And its not going to be walked on on the ceiling, nor is anyone going to spill a martini on it. I'd put at least one coat on the back. Only secret in applying is to brush quickly without going back over spots just painted. With 2 lb. cut (Seal Coat out of the can) you can apply the second coat about 1 hr. after the first, and the third coat about 2 hours after the second.



With a good WB poly, the first boards would be dry by the time she got done with the entire first coat. Plus, since it is a clear coat, either there is no bleed-through, or you can't see it. We've done this for thousands of square feet of T&G pine, with zero problems. It all looks great when it's got 2-3 coats on it. Typically dries to touch in 30 min, recoat in 1-2 hours.

Jason

[Steven Wilson]

Besides Milk Paint (nice on Pine not on a celing) :) I would use Shellac. Depending on what color she want's I would make up a test board of orange, lemon, blonde, and platinum blonde shellac. If the choice is platinum blonde then I would probably go with a waterborne poly instead. My choice would probably be a dewaxed lemon shellac.

[steve banks]

Living in a 100 yr. old house that was trimmed out with heart long leaf pine, I vote for a somewhat of a natural finish. Traditionally shellac is the choice of finish over pine for this era of house in my region of the country. My suggestion is to let the pine sit for a while and "age" aquiring a golden ruddy brownish tone to the wood. Orange 2# shellac over this will give it a heart pine glow. To me you can't get a better look than what I described for common clear yellow pine.

[Steve Schoene]

Oops, of course Jason is right about the quick drying nature of water borne poly--not much different that shellac. But the shellac will look dramatically better in my opinion--and thats why it had slipped my mind. I tend to use shellac--brushed or french polished whenever I can, and real varnish, not poly, if I need more protection. (Of course poly is real, but I prefer traditional resin varnish. Commonwealth quick rubbing varnish is good if a bit challenging to find.)

Poly perhaps for floors, but I think there is specialized "stuff" (some of it two part) for floors that has replaced poly for that application, just like conversion varnish would make more sense for for kitchen cabinets.

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

I missed this one before...

I wouldn't put ANY finish on it (and I didn't on mine, either). If you put finish on it, in my opinion it's gonna look bad unless you 'prepare' it just like you would any other project.

Left alone, it'll develop a nice patina.

I've been in some very high dollar houses with wood cieilings that looked <i>terrible</i> because somebody just splashed on some poly. It just accentuates the 'bad spots', kinda like higher gloss paint on poorly finsihed sheetrock.

KC