Woodmaster W-718 Planer - should I buy?

[Ryan Marcoux]

I have an opportunity to buy a used Woodmaster W-718. The asking price is 1000 and I think that I might be able to talk the guy down to 800.

The machine is about 10 years old but has been used very little (not at all in the past 3-4 years). The guy selling it does not know if it has any accessories to go with it b/c it was his fathers that passed away.

Heres the question, I need a thickness planer and this 18" capacity looks good to me. The ability to use it as a drum sander is nice also. Is the price right and will I get good results with it as a thickness planer? If I can not get the guy to lower the price, is it worth 1000?

Thanks for the help, I am just trying to avoid a impulse buy that I will later regret.

[Ryan Marcoux]

or would I be better off with a dedicated planer? :confused:

[keith ouellette]

I had a chance to buy one at a similar price. The owner had two that he used in his business and said they were very good. He was closing up shop. At the time I didn't have the money. He swore up and down by them and did run a shop with them for many years till he desided to retire. You can't run a buisiness wih bad equipment so they must have worked well for him. Test it first. If it planes well and switches to drum sander and back to planner and still planes without any furher adjustment I would say buy it.

[Matthew Bookamer]

I have small one man shop in central pa and space as well as price is always a major factor is my tool purchase decisions. Literally last weekend I took the family up to Manchester, Vermont to pick up my "new" 718. It is about 12 years old, and I paid 750 for it.

My plans were to sell my Grizz 20" that I had upgraded to the carbide cutter head and replace it with this multi tool. I did tons of research (Tons and Tons!) And decided that the woodmaster was worth a shot.

At first I was dissapointed with the cut quality. - tons of chatter. I replaced the blades with the Esta disposablade system (http://www.estausa.com/posiset06.html) The guy there was great to deal with by the way. Then I changed the belt out to a link type and following the forums from woodweb.com, I mounted the motor on a hinge. I did each step and checked the results. It improved a little each time. My hinge modification by the way was much simpler than the one shown on woodweb and only required purchasing two hinges and a few bolts and drilling some holes. The hinge conversion probably cost less than $10 and took about a half hour. The advantage to the way that I did it is that the belt size didn't need to be changed and it is conpletely reversible if I don't like it.

I still get some chatter, and I don't know if part of it is that the knives may have lifted slightly while tightening the gibs. I plan on replacing all of my gib bolts as the are pretty chewed up from years of use in a molding shop. The chatter can be "nearly" eliminated by running at a slower speed, but the the time that it takes to sand out the marks from 10' per minute was very small and I was able to start at 150 grit. To sand out the marks from my Grizzly sprial cutter (Zebra stripes) took much longer.

In the end, I am very happy with my purchase even though in many ways the woodmaster is inferior to my grizzly. Let me explain why.

The woodmaster is EXTREMLY user friendly to someone with mechanical skills and ingenuity who wants to tweak and modify his own machine. The only major drawback to it is its low weight. The variable feed rate is awesome. For those small projects that you get to be meticulous with, you can slow the rate down practically to a stop if you want and get great results. The design is simple (remember KISS Keep It Simple Stupid!) and the parts are off the shelf. I have already changed the feed speed to 20' per minute just by changing out the feed pullies with pullies that I got from my local TSC. The 5 HP motor is a power house. The grizz was rated a the same but I think that the woodmaster actually has it!

I have ordered my own version of the "Pro-pack" listed in the literature and it will be here soon. I can't wait to try out the drum sander and the gang saw attachments.

Some hate the woodmaster and some love it. I am growing to love it just because if I have a problem with this tool, or just want to change something to work for my situation, I can do that. I am always modifying things and coming up with more efficient or intersing ways to do things. I hated being tied down by the inflexibilities of my grizzly, and it's a great tool, don't get me wrong. The grizz does it's job, and does it well - but I want more from a machine! I think that the woodmaster may just be the partner in crime that I have been looking for.

I don't buy into the theory that you need to do al of your own planing. Large runs of lumber come to my shop surfaced to within 1/16 of my finished thickness and I finish the planing as I need the lumber. The extra 10 cents/bdft is more than worth to not have the time invested in planing, changing out DC bags, and disposing of dust.

I just don't have the need to plane lumber all day, every day. The woodmaster planes at a faster rate than my grizz did, and with less time with the ROS. Combined with it's other abilities, I think that the woodmaster is a great idea.

The people at woodmaster(Joe Brennan) are very helpful and even threw in some freebies with my order. I am getting a ower's manual and video for free, just like I had bought a new machine from them.

I've gone on for long enough! My vote is that if the 718 that you are looking at has the drum sander, mouliding head, or gang saws: it is a good deal at $1000. Almost a no brainer. If it is just a planer, $800 would also be a good deal. If it is local, I may still go for the machine with no accessories and piece meal them as you want them. When I contacted Joe at woodmaster for info right after buying mime, he quoted a price of about $700 to me for my own version of the pro-pack. (I removed a few things like the "Slick bed" because I can make my own out of melamine.)

Keep in mind while making your decision that you can get a 718 with the pro-pack and a warranty for $2300 (plus shipping). For me, I figured that I can buy a lot of spare parts for the money that I saved.

If you have any more questions, I would be glad to offer another 2 cents.

This post may have been long, but you should hear all of the stuff that I didn't type - that's right, I held back!

Good luck!

[Bob Wingard]

Matthew .. .. .. would you mind posting a few pictures of your version of the hinged motor base ?? ?? ?? I'm about to do one also, and like to get as much info as possible before starting.

[Brian Weick]

I wold have to say no ~ I am not a big fan of 1 machine does all.
that's my opinion
Brian:)

[James Suzda]

Matthew,
After reading your post about you having chatter marks in your lumber after using your 718 I just wonder if sometime along the 718’s previous life the head was warped when the former owner changed the planner knives with a “heavy hand”. I just wonder what you would find if you could take the planer head to a machine shop and have them put it on a lathe to check to see if it was out of round.
I’ve got the Woodmaster 712 and the boards come out very smooth and I usually run the feed at full speed. When I change out the planer knives I take great care to tighten the gibs in the sequence as listed in the manual plus I tighten all three knives equally as I go. I never just tighten one down and go to the next. All three should be tightened at the same time so the head doesn’t get warped.
Do you use a jig to make sure all knives are aligned exactly the same height? The jig that Woodmaster sells is pretty simple but it works great to align the knives.
I’ve not tried the drum sander because I’ve got a Performax 16/32 so I never got around to trying out the Woodmaster sander. But, the gang saw(s) are great! If you have to run a bunch of molding you can run a couple thousand board feet of material though the blades and the molding comes out exactly the same width!
I still haven’t gotten around to putting my main motor on hinges, but so far I’ve been pretty lucky on not getting any chatter marks in my planed boards nor the molding I’ve made on my machine. But, I’ll admit that when I am running molding I slow the feed down to about 30 to 40 fpm.
Jim

[Barry Bruner]

I also have one and it has some viberation but no chatter marks, I agree with some thing must be out of balance. It would be the best buy I have made if I would have only bought the planer. I have the gang saw, molder and sander kit and never used them, like someone also said I don`t like one thing that does it all. BARRY BRUNER

[Matthew Bookamer]

Bob,


I've never inserted pics to this forum before so, if I did it right,
here are a couple pics of the motor mount mods:

72776

72777

72778

Basically I took the rear (Closest to motor) angle iron off of the machine and flipped it over and re-attached it to the outside of the planer base. I mounted the bolts thread out so that it would be easier to ratchet.

Then I took two blank hinges from TSC and clamped them into the proper position and drilled them and the longer angle iron and bolted together.

I then drilled throught the holes that were used before to attach the three pieces of angle together and bolted the other side of the hinges on. I used two hinges instead of one barn door style hinge because the two blanks lined up better, and had almost no play at the hinge pin.

After getting the mods done at the rear of the machine, I removed the bolts mounting to the front bar and let the motor sag and weight the belt.

Now that I know that this works, I am going to find a piece of steel plate and make a motor mount plate to replace the angle irons that the motor is mounted to. That should eliminate the slight flex that is present currently.

If you have any questions, just let me know!

James,

I have similar suspicions to yours about the round and for that matter, balance of the planing head. I am planning on taking it to a machine shop to check it all over including machineing the knive slots if necessary.

I did buy a "Better" gague to check the dispose a blades and as far as it was concerned, the knives are near dead on. Although I am going to get or make a better set of gagues, I want the machine shop to check the knife slots and remachine them if necessary so that I can properly use the Esta's. What's the point of putting out the cash for dispose a blades if you can't save time on set up?

Thanks for your comments!




Hey! Did anybody see the set of flat backs that went for $112 on e-bay last night. I lost the bid literally in the last second! I gues the other guys was just that much faster. It looked like a very decent set of knives though. 34 I believe including lots of stock profiles, 5 crowns, and their bottom knives.

[Dick Strauss]

Ryan,
I don't own one but used my neighbor's WM718 for a couple of days. His machine was the only one that I had access to that would plane curly wood cleanly. The variable feed rate saved the day for my batch of tightly quilted/tiger maple. I didn't have any sign of chatter while running it at about 4 fpm. I would buy one in a heartbeat at that price!

Good luck,
Dick

[James Suzda]

OH Man, you are only running one link belt? No wonder....!
Just kidding, but the fact that you are running one belt on your Woodmaster answers one of my questions about putting link belt(s) on my machine. I was always under the impression that I'd have to run two belts. You don't get any belt slip with just the one?

[Matthew Bookamer]

James,

No, I don't get any slip with just one belt. A contributor on woodweb stated the opinion that two standard belts were required to compensate for inadequate tensioning. I don't know if that is true, but I know that several people after converting to a hinge mount just removed one of the v belts with no problem.

I noticed while running the two belts that they were bouncing and dancing all over the place. With just one link belt I have no slippage (that I can notice) and there is almost no belt dancing.

[Jeremy Williams]

Well, I recently picked up a Woodmaster 718 and installed some new knives yesterday. I noticed some waves in the planed piece -- and though it was very smooth, in the light (and later with a chalk shadow) you could see the waves well. When the machine is one, the two belts dance around like crazy ... so today I'm going to try the tips out here: (1) single linked belt and (2) hinged motor.

Bookamer - What's the latest on the motor mount since you made this post last year? Did you end up getting a steel plate, or did the angle iron work well enough?

[Jeremy Williams]

72776

72777

72778

Basically I took the rear (Closest to motor) angle iron off of the machine and flipped it over and re-attached it to the outside of the planer base. I mounted the bolts thread out so that it would be easier to ratchet.

Then I took two blank hinges from TSC and clamped them into the proper position and drilled them and the longer angle iron and bolted together.

I then drilled throught the holes that were used before to attach the three pieces of angle together and bolted the other side of the hinges on. I used two hinges instead of one barn door style hinge because the two blanks lined up better, and had almost no play at the hinge pin.

After getting the mods done at the rear of the machine, I removed the bolts mounting to the front bar and let the motor sag and weight the belt.

Now that I know that this works, I am going to find a piece of steel plate and make a motor mount plate to replace the angle irons that the motor is mounted to. That should eliminate the slight flex that is present currently.



Well, here are the results from today. Took the advice from above, along with a purchase of a PowerTwist belt from Woodcraft & scrap piece of steel I had around the shop (thought I'd never use it!), and viola (well, sorta)

This is the ball bearing hinge being installed directly to the steel plate. (Disregard all of the "other" holes in the plate, those were already there)
http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/1222/IMG_8196.JPG

This is where the hinge will attach to the cross bar.
http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/1222/IMG_8197.JPG

This is the motor installed on the hinge/steel plate and "hanging" on the saw (the piece of wood under it is only a temporary stand while I tighten the bolts)
http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/1222/IMG_8198.JPG

And a view from the side ...
http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/1222/IMG_8199.JPG

The finished product
http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/1222/IMG_8203.JPG

The GOOD NEWS is the chatter is less, the BAD NEWS is it is still NOT gone (as you can see on this chalk shadow) ... so, I'll guess I'll keep trying.:o
http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/1222/IMG_8205.JPG

[Chris Rosenberger]

Nice work.
Some of that could be from the knives not being set the same height.
How fast is your feed rate?

[Steve Nouis]

I've been running a RBI 20" planer for years which is real simular to the Woodmaster. Good luck with the drum sander, you can take off close to a thousands of a inch without it burning, one little knot and the paper is shot. Far as planeing, the gang saw and the moulder they all work good. For those chatter marks
The knifes need to be even.
The down pressure on the feed rollers was not heavy enough, I put stiffer springs in which keeps the board held down good, before I did that I spent a lot of time trying to get both edges the same thickness.
If there are rollers on the table set them so they dont touch, mine came with a 1/2 sheet of plastic for the bed, the boards slide easy and there's no riding up and down over the rollers on rough sawn lumber.

[Neal Clayton]

i have a 718 as well, currently in the process of re-producing all of the 100+ year old molding in my house with it, that like so many others has been paint ruined.

as a planer, it's great, works as well as any other planer i've used, but fwiw i don't use the knives, i ordered the spiral head with mine, so that makes a difference.

i also agree that as a gang rip saw it also works great, all you need to produce molding blanks is a 16-18 foot length of angle iron, a chalk line, and a skilsaw to square one edge with, the machine does the rest for you.

i haven't used the sander head with it, can't comment on that.

i also have an issue with chatter, which i'm researching. i also stumbled across what others have done like jeremy and matt with hinging the motor and going with a linked belt. i got the power twist belt at grainger the other day, but haven't gotten around to picking up a piece of metal to mount it with yet. i suspect that alot of the chatter problem comes from...

a) the plastic bed they send you not being true flat when bolted down, and

b) the flimsy in/out tables

i got a piece of laminate countertop material the other day from the borg to try and test that with, i plan to replace the whole shebang with the bottom-framed countertop table and see if that helps.

stock from the factory, it cuts test strips of new 2x4 pine smooth as butter, it's harder stuff that seems to struggle. my molding is being made with old growth longleaf pine, which creates a bit of a catch 22. it's hard, some boards harder than red oak, so you have to slow the feed rate down, but on the other hand the high sap content makes it easy to burn, so you can't slow it too much.

if all you need it for is a planer, i'd say go for it and buy the spiral head from the factory. if you can talk him to 800 you've got a 2000 dollar spiral head planer that's as good as any other, plus the ability to put the sander and sawblades on it, which not many other planers can do. they get 1000-1200 for the spiral head for the 718, i don't remember the exact amount, but either way the spiral head they sell is as good as any other i've seen, no complaints about it.

after tinkering with it i agree with the assumption that the two belts is their means of making heads easy to change, if you notice the stock belts are AX belts (which means they are rated for a tighter grip), not A belts like the power twist ones you got, which compensate for lack of tension. you're basically exchanging a tighter grip belt for a lower grip belt and adding tension. but the idea seems sound to me, i'm going to try it as well i think. i've got the leeson 5hp 'upgrade' motor they sell on mine which has a shipping weight of 119 pounds per grainger's website, so i don't think the weight of the motor will be a problem for tension. we'll see when i get around to it.

only other complaint about the machine is the parts are pretty tightly packed, so you need a lot of dust collection oomph. i have one of the smaller oneida cyclones and it works ok, but i still don't extract 100 percent from it on wider boards.

but either way, the machine for 90% of its functionality works as advertised and i have no complaints with it. getting perfect molding from it takes some trial and error, but if you don't care about making molding it'll be fine for any other use out of the box, imo. the spiral head eliminates any chatter problems that could occur with the knives, then you only have molding chatter to deal with ;).

[Neal Clayton]

by the way if any of you who are using the planer knives want a new set for free (shipping i guess), they sent me some by mistake when i ordered mine (like i said i got the spiral head from them so don't use the standard head for planer knives). that coupled with the extra digital depth guage and random extra counter weights made for a nice box of spare parts that i don't need :confused:

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Ryan,
Maybe this reply wasn't meant to be. I had it all but finished, my fat fingers hit a mystical key and 10 minutes of picking and plucking dissapeared. I'll try again.
I own a 718. I originally bought it to switch between a sander and a machine to produce custom moldings. I would never use it as my only planer simply because I need a planer too often to want to convert it back and forth. Besides I own a dedicated heavy metal planer. The 718 would probably be a good hobby planer as long as you understand the limitations of a machine with rubber infeed and outfeed rollers. I used a Belsaw planer for many years and the design was similar. It did what was expected, it made two sides parallel. Of course the planed side still required belt sanding to get rid of the planer marks but that was to be expected. The rubber feed rollers just don't feed like serrated steel rollers. You can expect a bit more snipe at the end but that is easily avoided by running a scrap follower behind the last board planed and keeping the rest dead behind each other.
As a sander I was very unhappy with the results. Dedicated sanders feed via a conveyor belt on the bottom and pressure rollers on top. The 718 feed is supplied by the rubber infeed and outfeed rollers that become less effective as they get covered by a layer of thin dust. Despite my very good dust collector, the rollers would stop feeding and I would get dips in my work. I eventually solved that problem by buying a wide belt sander. There went another hunk of retirement. I'll just work a little longer!!!
I still use my 718 but only as a molder. I buy a single blade from Woodmaster and a set of balancing weights for any custom profiles I design and the 718 makes me wonderful trim. I use it for door casings, crown moldings and even fancy stiles and rails.
Here's my advice. If you don't already own a dedicated planer, buy one. What's more, buy the absolute best performing planer you can afford. Your time in the shop should be dedicated to building projects not having to fiddle with your machines. You want to own a planer that makes a perfect mirror image of the opposing surface without snipe or excessive chatter.
Good woodworking depends on making your surfaces square and true and you don't want that to be a struggle. Don't buy a planer without buying a piece of equipment to collect the dust and chips. Sweeping takes time and dust can take your health. Later, buy a dedicated sander if you find the need.
If you need a way to produce moldings on a budget, go for the Woodmaster. You'll still need the dust collector.

[Neal Clayton]

i agree in part with faust's assertions. the rubber rollers do require cleaning, whereas steel rollers not nearly as much. i clean the rubber rollers off with turpentine here and there (once a week in light use, once every other day in heavy use, just takes holding a rag around them as they turn).

i disagree that it can't be a full time planer. i plane my molding stock down with mine, and have no complaints about it. but i think the spiral head is key to that. no straight knife planer i've used can make perfect cuts over time, it's just an inherent flaw in that design. in a machine with that much friction anything less than constant blade contact will eventually result in chatter.

a spiral head will always be better in the long haul, and the woodmaster is no different. with a spiral head it can be a full time planer if you so choose.

[Jeremy Williams]

WOW... thanks for all of the GREAT feedback. I am really new to this machine and really want to make it work for me. I am going to spend some time soon here to align the knifes better. I have to think they are out of alignment because that alignment gauge included was "just okay" in my book (would favor the upgraded dial indicator gauge -- which I will probably order)

(And check your PM regarding the knives)

[Bob Wingard]

by the way if any of you who are using the planer knives want a new set for free (shipping i guess), they sent me some by mistake when i ordered mine (like i said i got the spiral head from them so don't use the standard head for planer knives). that coupled with the extra digital depth guage and random extra counter weights made for a nice box of spare parts that i don't need :confused:


Neal .. if you don't have any takers on the set of knives, I'd love to have them .. .. how shall we proceed ??

[Jeremy Williams]

Well, I purchased the PlanerPal blade alignment jigs, took each knife back out of the Woodmaster & cleaned them, then reset everything ... AND ... same ol' crap. The finish is decent, but I can still see the cross lines. I even tried to put a slick pieces of plywood under it running the length of the bed hoping to make it smoother -- but no luck.

At this point, I don't know where else to turn. So far, I've:



Cleaned the machine top to bottom.
Oiled everything and greased the bearings
Replaced the belts with a link-style belt (for less vibration)
Hinge-mounted the motor
Purchased & installed brand new blades, aligned with a gauge that claims to be within .002" accurate.
Reset the pressure rollers to factory recommended settings & cleaned them.

I've emailed Woodmaster Tools and they recommended either (1) blade alignment or (2) sticking points in the bed. Personally, I don't see how it could be sticking points on the bed (the boards appears to move smoothly on the freshly cleaned & waxed bed and the marks are on every inch of the board). While I admit the blades could be out of alignment, I have done everything I can think of to avoid this (including the purchase of expensive alignment jigs) -- not sure how I could get much better!

In any case, the cut is good and will work for most stuff ... but every board will require an additional bit of sanding -- which is disappointing. I would think I could get a "ready to go" finish from this (afterall, my Dewalt 735 provided a glass-smooth finish every time and it's a lesser machine in many aspects).

One recommendation for Woodmaster .... consider indexed blades like the Dewalt 735 ... that is such a better way to do it! Perfect everytime!

I keep trying ...

[Shawn Walker]

Well at this point I don't think I'm hijacking the thread... :D

I was just looking into a Wood masters Drum sander.... But now I don't know now... Any Woodmaster Drumsander owners out there? What do you say ???

[Mike Keers]

Before you hijack it let me jump in! I saw this thread twice in the past several weeks and missed my chance to check in both times. I just acquired a 718 as partial payment on some commissioned furniture. I have been paying special attention to this thread since it popped up since the machine is so new to me.

Backing up, I had looked at the Woodmaster drum sanders myself about a year ago, and received their product package--videos, literature etc. I was impressed but not in a position to buy one. I put it aside, but then my little ancient Delta 12" started struggling and I was thinking a new planer would be on my short list like it or not, and this whole thing came together with the 718 so I jumped on it, with the only thought being the planer. I didn't even know it could be converted to a sander or molder, or that he had all that stuff too. I had only looked at their sanders, not the planers.

The machine I got looks very good, almost new, but Woodmaster doesn't ahve a production date. It's possibly five years old according to the PO. The guy sprung for all the bells and whistles, the 5hp dust collector, dust hood, HDPE bed board, the casters, the molding head, the sanding drum, four or five rolls of sandpaper, the dial indicator knife setting gauge (I was able to get them all within .001" of each other and over the whole length) and some other stuff he threw in like a 30' length of 6" heavy wall hose for the dust collector and some other fittings, etc. He said at the time, with delivery and extras, he paid about $3200 or $3600. We agreed on $1200 as the barter value, which seemed fair to me with all the extras. Not a bargain, but fair.

I went over the whole machine and did the set up and all. As an old millwright I appreciate the simplicity of the design--let loose in a metal shop a talented guy like me (he says modestly) could build one of these, the special castings and machining aside. It's off the shelf good old American teknolgee. Solid and simple.

Anyway, the knives are usable but badly dull. I touched them up with a hand stone, but they are so dull I'm not sure about all the ripples I'm reading about above. Jury is out. I ran a few boards thru it, and it did plane well enough, I sent thru quite few rough sawn hard old oak boards and it didn't hiccup, bad knives or not. I plan to buy a new pair and I see Woodmaster sells the knives for $55 a set. Can we hear more about their blades compared to outside sources? Cost? Quality? I've found them from about $36 to over $100. Discuss. :D

But man, it is a shaker. I thought it was partly the casters, and I've been thinking of removing them, but they've proved useful while I'm still working out having this new machine in the way. That's why it was so neat to see this thread, and that so many of us have the same issues (or issues I don't even know about yet?)

I installed the sanding drum a week ago and played with that a bit. I think, after only extremely limited use, it might be as mentioned above, not that great a dedicated sander. Oh, it did the trick, and it far easier and faster than hand belt sanding, but it's no Timesaver (no surprise or blame there) So far I've only run 80 grit, using it almost more as an abrasive planer at the moment to size 9x36 false drawer fronts and some disparate molding stock. No snipe with the sander, some (as expected) with the planer.

I guess overall I'm pleased so far considering what I 'paid'. I do wonder how much different the dedicated drum sander would be, probably better because of the feed belt rather than pressure rollers.

So big question now that I've told my tale, where is the stuff you guys are talking about on Woodweb or? I'm quite eager to read and learn all I can about this machine. I was disappointed with the level of vibration, but apparently it's something that's been owner addressed, and I'll have to too.

Thanx for the above pics and info on that hinged moter--as soon as I get all my ducks in a row, I plan to do what needs doing to improve the 718, I'm just looking for more info on doing that. Thx!
mike keers

[Neal Clayton]

the articles on woodweb basically mirror this thread, nothing you haven't read here already.

they also sell a 'power platform' for a couple/three hundred bucks that adds another pulley/roller to the end along with a sort of universal mounting plate, on to which you can mount a third motor for a mop sander, or a router, or other such things.

yeah it is a lot lighter than most planers, but i think that's somewhat of a necessity, since their goal is to have parts easily exchanged for others on a daily basis.

i agree with a previous post with the point that it's just a simple machine that someone with a bit of mechanical propensity can simply modify to their own taste. if that's your cup of tea you'll probably get some use out of it.

[Joe Von Kaenel]

Ryan,

I have a woodmaster 712 and am very pleased with the machine. I run the factory belts and the motor mounted just as it was from the factory. These are well made machines


JOE

[Bob Wingard]

I too have the 718, and was speaking with a factory tech. about another matter, when we got on the subject of some of the "home-brew" improvements floating around the web. He agreed that link-belts might help reduce harmonic vibrations, but they shouldn't be much of a problem, if any even without the new belt(s). We talked about the "floating" motor mount, and from my profession (Industrial Mechanic) and his experience, we agreed that there is no generally accepted basis for this modification. It may make belt-changing faster/easier, but little or nothing else. Not saying it absolutely doesn't or can't work .. just no theoretical or factual basis for it to do so.

I moved my motor mount to get proper tension on the belts, and I even sometimes remove them if not being used for extended period to keep them from taking a set. I have tried installing a single link-belt, and while it sounds a bit smoother, I see no difference in cut quality. Now, that might be due to other setup parameters, and your situation(s) might be altogether different.

[Jeremy Williams]

Great replies and discussion. I think I'm going to float an email to Woodmaster Tools again in hopes of figuring something out. I would hope I could get the 718 to provide a superior finish right off the outfeed bed similar to the Dewalt. While I wish I could spring for the spiral head ... not gonna happen (yet).

My machine is fairly stable and doesn't shake around too much. In fact, it seems about 2x quieter than the Dewalt and is definitely more poweful (with that 5HP motor, it ought to be!).

The hinge motor mount definately doesn't have consensus in the public ... but I figured, heck why not. I would have done it simply to make the belt changes easier. I'd agree that it didn't eliminate motor shake ... that's just how it goes.

As for the ripples ... I'm outta ideas. This past weekend I ran about 75bf of wood with about 6 passes. It didn't miss a beat and overall I'm happy with it. Afterall, I picked it up for $300 (718, sandpaper, house starter kit of molding knifes, molding heads, sanding head, old-style knife jig and a lot of filth) and have put another $200 into it with the link belt and fance PlanerPal knife jig and blades and cleaning solution. It'll replace my Dewalt 735 for sure ... but to what degree is yet to be determined.

[Mike Keers]

Jeremy, you mention having a starter kit of knives. I have the cutter head and the manual, but no knives. In the manual the knives look very much like, if not identical to the ones I have for my old Craftsman molding head for the TS. That takes three cutters rather than one, but they sure look the same to me--many of you know the head and bits I refer to I'm sure. I was curious if anyone knows more about possibly using the Sears knives in the cutter head, or has--I haven't tried it or even offered up a knife to the molding head, just curious now that you brought up molding. I know my knives fit other cutter heads, so perhaps there is some kind of industry standard about the locating grooves and set screw.

Has anyone here done molding with the 718? I just spent too many frustrating hours with a vertical face cutting bit and router table trying to make about 60 l/f of 2" wide custom face molding for a furniture commission. I think it might have been faster and more cost effective to have a custom knife ground and used the 718. A lot of set up for only the little bit of trim I needed, but it took me ten hours to finally get the molding out with the router, by the time I'd made fixtures and had a few rough starts and ruined some fine cherry. Even at my modest shop rate that represents a lot of wasted time, energy and money. Especially on a firmly-priced job.

[Neal Clayton]

i bought mine specifically to make molding. since i don't use the planer knives i run the molding knives in the planer head. they have an accessory head that fits on the same thinner shaft that the saw blades go on, but i think chatter would be worse with that due to the thinner shaft having more propensity to flex.

i have a slight bit of chatter with it, only abnormally hard boards tend to chip/tear, i would say about 80% comes out flawless after a pass through a mop sander with a 220 wheel on it. i've been tinkering with the other 20% but haven't completely solved it yet.

my whole homebrew molding operation is done with a woodmaster and a skilsaw actually. i plane with the 718, square one edge with a skilsaw and a 16 foot length of angle iron, put the blades on the 718 and use it to cut the blanks to width, and then cut the molding on it.

they recommend running 2 or 3 knives in lieu of other modifications to get smoother results, but i haven't tried that yet.

[Brandon Shew]

I wold have to say no ~ I am not a big fan of 1 machine does all.
that's my opinion
Brian:)
He said that he needed a thickness planer. with that in mind, the drum sander attachment is just a bonus.

I have an older Woodmaster 612 and it is a real workhorse. I don't have any issues w/ chatter and the 5HP motor is no joke. I do get a lot of vibration from the motor, but my belts are probably 20 years old and brittle. (some day I'll get around to putting on v-link belts.) I wish I had the capability for adjustable speed and a drum attachment.

[Jeremy Williams]

Just a minor update to my mill marks issue ...

I contact Woodmaster Tools via email and it started with decent response, however it didn't take long and I got the rather abrupt "cold shoulder" because their recommendations didn't work yet.

This week I added an auxilary bed to the machine with a full sheet of SlickSaw (such a cool product) to make it "extra" slick. It's now smoother than ever ... unforunately though, still showing mill marks.

Back to blade alignment ... I'm going to take those blades off again and use the jig I purchased to align it once again. I'll keep you all posted.

[James Suzda]

I see by the postings you are still having problems with your WoodMaster. I have a question/statement to make.
Do you have full length infeed and outfeed tables for your Woodmaster? I'm not talking the small ones that come with the machine, but 8 or 10 foot long ones? Each of my tables are 8 foot long and they are still too short in my opinion for when I plane 10 to 16 foot stock.
I'm pointing this out because any 'bounce' or vibration at all of an unsupported board will transfer the vibration to the planer head and make a chatter mark. BTW, rollers will not do the trick because the board will still bounce where it isn't supported.
Just some thoughts!

[Neal Clayton]

by the way since someone bumped this, i've given up on trying to eliminate chatter with their plastic bed cover. i just tossed it.

i take the plastic bed cover off for any molding profile that doesn't need to dig into the table (i still have to use it for baseboard shoes (aka quarter round) but otherwise it's off). without the plastic bed, i'm getting about 90% usable stain grade molding from it. any rough spots are due to wood irregularity, not the machine. and these are not your average mass produced moldings, i have deep and large cuts like 5 1/4" door/window casings with a 3.5" groove in the center, and 2"x1" baseboard caps with a 30 degree 1.5" wide slope, door/window crowns with a 2"x2" molded top that's a 45 degree 2" cut, etc.

so rather than tinkering with or replacing the bed cover with something else, just try without it if you don't need the knife to reach the table, it helps. i tried replacing the plastic with laminate countertop material, and that was actually worse. i think the vibration absorption of cast iron is what it needs, not necessarily perfect flatness.

[Jeremy Williams]

I see by the postings you are still having problems with your WoodMaster. I have a question/statement to make.
Do you have full length infeed and outfeed tables for your Woodmaster? I'm not talking the small ones that come with the machine, but 8 or 10 foot long ones? Each of my tables are 8 foot long and they are still too short in my opinion for when I plane 10 to 16 foot stock.
I'm pointing this out because any 'bounce' or vibration at all of an unsupported board will transfer the vibration to the planer head and make a chatter mark. BTW, rollers will not do the trick because the board will still bounce where it isn't supported.
Just some thoughts!

This is good feedback, however I'm getting the mill marks (I don't think it's "chatter", but rather marks from another alignment issue, or something). I have the standard infeed/outfeed wings and am getting the marks on a 16" board which is fully supported.

The bed is smooth as a baby's behind and the wood doesn't visually appear to vibrate in the least. I'm back to thinking the knives are misaligned ... but I've yet to have a moment to remove and align them again.

Sure wish I had the mula for the Shelix!

[Jeremy Williams]

I've been updating this thread as I go along ... so why stop now? :confused:

Today I purchased (yet another) blade alignment jig ... just in case the first attempts where a faulty jig. The new jig should have gotten the alignment within a millihair (in other words, precise) ... but still the same mill marks.

Maybe I'm expecting too much ... I want a smooth surface right off the planer, but it's just not happening.

Wish I could splurge and get the Shelix for this ... but just can't happen for a while until I actually have money again! :rolleyes:

[Bob Wingard]

What kind of fancy micro-adjust doo-dad blade checker did ya' get ?? ?? ??

Mine is home-made and is simply a steel copy of the one they supply, but instead of that silly plunger they supply, I have modded the base to accept a dial indicator. It's the best setup jig I've used, and was almost free.

[Jeremy Williams]

What kind of fancy micro-adjust doo-dad blade checker did ya' get ?? ?? ??

Mine is home-made and is simply a steel copy of the one they supply, but instead of that silly plunger they supply, I have modded the base to accept a dial indicator. It's the best setup jig I've used, and was almost free.

I've tried a magnetic dial indicator first, then purchased the Planer Pal, and finally ended up with a Planer Pal clone with a few extra features from Pinnacle (Woodcrafts generic brand).

[Neal Clayton]

jeremy, i think it's vibration, not the blades (you're using the new blades i sent right? those were never used).

i tried an auxiliary bed like you did for my molding, and it made mine worse. imo, any barrier between the wood and the iron bed will cause a vibration problem.

i'm assuming you've tried maxing out the roller tension.

[Jeremy Williams]

jeremy, i think it's vibration, not the blades (you're using the new blades i sent right? those were never used).

i tried an auxiliary bed like you did for my molding, and it made mine worse. imo, any barrier between the wood and the iron bed will cause a vibration problem.

i'm assuming you've tried maxing out the roller tension.

Yep, the new blades. I'm getting the same ripples with and without the auxiliary bed and have the tension of the rollers set within the range outlined in the manual (but nothing more and haven't tried). The tension seems a bit strong (even at the recommended amount), but I could try to tighten that down a bit more I guess.

[Matthew Bookamer]

Jeremy,

I hope that you have assumed that I have not seen this thread in a while and not that I was ignoring your question....No, I have not installed a steel plate as you have. Might I say, WOW! - that looks plenty heavy and substantial. I kind of made peace with the marks that my planer makes. I have seen a few pictures of other guys shops where they actually have a portable planer attached to the return rollers on the top of their big planers to make the final pass. I have followed suit and got a delta portable for this purpose. Still not as good at the practically finish ready boards I got from my dewalt 735, but that's water under the bridge.

Most of my stuff gets a good going over with a ROS and then a hand sand or scraping before finishing anyway and most of my chatter marks have not been so bad that they have been a problem.

Neal - Have you seen the mods on woodweb that the guy made to turn his woodmaster into a straight line gang rip saw? I made a accessory table for my 718 AFTER I had to make a housefull of oak trim. Of course I also bought my 718 IMMEDIATELY after that job. Man, the time and money I could have saved!

My accessory table basically works like a jointer bed. I made a parallelogram fence that I adjust as necessary to take off as much material as I need to straighten the board. On the outfeed side of the machine, I have a piece of angle iron set to act like a splitter or more accurately a combination of a splitter and the outfeed table on a jointer. Board buddies keep the board pressed up against the infeed and outfeed fences. With some tweaking at initial setup of the gang saw, you get straightline gang ripped boards without having to mess with the circular saw setup. I have only used it a handfull of times, but having the stack of moulding that I made for the house to compare to, it saves TONS of time and energy. When I finally move to a bigger shop, I plan on leaving this woodmaster set up as a dedicated SLGR saw with a permanent 16' long infeed fence. Of couse that means that I need to get a new 20" spiral carbide head planer and one of those neat 38" drum sanders! Anybody want to donate to my new tool fund?!

[Ben Abate]

I owned a similar machine, an RBI and I sold it because of the turn around time and what I would call not satisfied with the results of the planer..... Don't believe it when it is stated that it only takes minutes to change over to another process. It take time and a lot of effort. The sanding part of the system is poor at best. It's a drum sander, I think we all know how well they work. Sorry if I'm offending someone with one of these machines but I did not care for it at all. I took a huge loss on it just to get it out of my shop. Really the sander is the worst part of it, the planer is the second bad part and the molder did work well, but it took an hour to set it up.

Buy a lunch box planer and a Shop Fox molder for the thousand your going to spend and you'll be happier. Really, some of the lunch boxes give wonderful results. The Shop Fox is also a great molding machine. All told, you'll have a bit over a grand and have BRAND NEW TOOLS.

my $00.02

[Neal Clayton]

Neal - Have you seen the mods on woodweb that the guy made to turn his woodmaster into a straight line gang rip saw? I made a accessory table for my 718 AFTER I had to make a housefull of oak trim. Of course I also bought my 718 IMMEDIATELY after that job. Man, the time and money I could have saved!

My accessory table basically works like a jointer bed. I made a parallelogram fence that I adjust as necessary to take off as much material as I need to straighten the board. On the outfeed side of the machine, I have a piece of angle iron set to act like a splitter or more accurately a combination of a splitter and the outfeed table on a jointer. Board buddies keep the board pressed up against the infeed and outfeed fences. With some tweaking at initial setup of the gang saw, you get straightline gang ripped boards without having to mess with the circular saw setup. I have only used it a handfull of times, but having the stack of moulding that I made for the house to compare to, it saves TONS of time and energy. When I finally move to a bigger shop, I plan on leaving this woodmaster set up as a dedicated SLGR saw with a permanent 16' long infeed fence. Of couse that means that I need to get a new 20" spiral carbide head planer and one of those neat 38" drum sanders! Anybody want to donate to my new tool fund?!

no i haven't seen that, searching for it now...

that's actually my only major complaint about the woodmaster, i wish i could get larger gang rip blades in there. i could save alot of lumber by cutting flat sawn 2x6s full width and cutting the profile on the edge grain, but the max depth on the woodmaster gang rip blades is only about 1 3/8" if i remember correctly.

i'm doing the same thing, that's why i got one. reproducing 100 year old trim in a house with old growth heart pine. unfortunately i have very little shop room to add such things, so i have to make due to with rollers. i'm already running boards out the door ;), my shop is only about ~25 feet deep.

[Jeremy Williams]

What I'm still curious about now is what "magic" the Byrd-style carbide tooth planer head would do in this machine. Earlier in the thread this was HIGHLY recommended ... but is the job done by one of those in THIS MACHINE perfect (no sanding required)? If so ... might be worth it at this point.

[Matthew Bookamer]

Jeremy,

I had a 20" grizzly with their upgrade spiral insert cutterhead. I planed some painted boards (I know - kringe!) and some salvaged pine that turned out to have a few broken cut nails in it. There was NO noticable damage to the quality of cut. The only disadvantage that I know of for spiral cutterheads is the zebra effect or checkerboard pattern that it leaves on the wood. The shelix is supposed to be the cadillace and leave a better finish. Attached is a photo of what I found AFTER meticulously (or so I thought) sanding a cherry raised panel. These marks are only readily visible after staining.

I spoke to the salesman at woodmaster while I was ordering all the goodies for my used woodmaster. I was wondering if their spiral heads had the same problem and if it would be worth the upgrade. He aknowleged the existince of such a problem and said that it just had to be sanded out.

The spiral head DOES allow you to plane at a higher speed on problem woods with little or no tearout and a very pleasing surface. If you have a wide belt or one of the better drum sanders ( the 718 makes a LOUSY drum sander) this should not be a problem. Of course if we all had on of those, the chatter marks we are discussing would be a non-issue.

David Freed was the person on woodweb who had the original SLR modifications.

There two more cents!

[Jeremy Williams]

Hmmmmm. I guess I need a bigger, badder, bolder drum sander (or if money were no object and this weren't just my hobby, maybe a wide belt sander!)

That is excellent information and I appreciate you taking the time to share it with me. Might have just saved me a chunk of change!

I guess my next move is to decide on keeping the Woodmaster, or just selling it. It seems to be a fantastic machine and I like it, but for a one-man-hobby-shop, maybe I need to do something else.

[Rob Diz]

So I just picked up a used 718 and reading this thread, I was wondering how the issue got resolved?

I have a few things to do before I clean my 718 up, but remain curious about solutions here

[David L. Anthony]

I've had a Woodmaster 718 for 5 years and use it only for planning. I do a lot of reclamation/processing work for a friend who salvages old houses. I've run tons of oak and chestnut through the planner and never had any chatter. I don't use the Woodmaster knives. I buy mine at Global Tooling because they have a better price and seem to last longer. I just ran about a thousand bd.ft. of old, dirty white oak from a corn crib through it at full speed with no chatter marks. The oak was going to be used for flooring. It barely needed to be sanded. I give it a thorough going over after every job and when I change the blades. Its not a perfect machine but so far it has worked well for me.

Dave

[Jeremy Williams]

So I just picked up a used 718 and reading this thread, I was wondering how the issue got resolved?

I have a few things to do before I clean my 718 up, but remain curious about solutions here

Well, it's not really "resolved" for me. I still have the minor ridges throughout my boards, but I've decided (at least for now) to live with it rather than investing any more money into the machine until I decide what I'm going go to do with it. I am fairly happy with the machine and it seems to be a real workhorse -- the main complaint just being that which I've posted here. For now, I'm just doing a light sanding on the boards to make them furniture-ready.

[Bob Falk]

Matthew .. .. .. would you mind posting a few pictures of your version of the hinged motor base ?? ?? ?? I'm about to do one also, and like to get as much info as possible before starting.

I bought a used 718 a year or so ago and immediately did the hinged mod (almost identical to the one shown in this thread) and added a linked belt. I also added a Wixey digital depth scale and a 6" dust collection port to the top of the machine. I get very little residual shavings when planing and the digital is great, though I had to scratch my head a few times to get it mounted right.

I don't get any chatter and as an owner of 3 other planers (Dewalt, Robland, Ryobi) I have to say I like the Woodmaster the best. I think $800 is a great price...I paid several hundred more for mine, but it had the propack and was in pristine shape (though about 5 years old). I use a Tormek grinder with planer blade attachment to sharpen my blades and it works great and cuts like a hot knife through butter.

[Jeremy Williams]

Thanks for that post and positive comments ... that gives me some more hope for mine. And the Wixey ... what a nice addition. I've considered that too and will probably do that because the standard height gauge is pretty horrible, so I'm usually just going by "feel".

So if you run a board thru yours, it is finish ready smooth? If you take a piece of chalk on its side and rub it on the board you don't any sign of ridges (you can't feel them with your hand, but the chalk makes them shine -- stain would)

[Kevin Jaynes]

Jeremy,

I have a 725 which I have tweaked about as perfect as one can get. I bought it used - heavily used. I hated the straight knives immediately. It was 2ice as loud as the 12" and 15" planers it was to supplant as my primary planer.

So I bought the spiral cutter head from WM and it was like a whole different machine. So with that brief background FWIW my planer still leaves the small micro-divot marks in the wood.

It's just a fact of life that no type of planer, nor style of knives are going to leave a "finish-ready" surface. Not furniture grade anyway. For house siding sure thing.

I see guys say their planers leave a perfectly smooth surface but I do not believe that is possible. Not with the kind of finish I like to put on a project. there is just no way to get that kind of finish from any planer that I am aware of at any price.

After all you have done to your machine, if you put a spiral cutter on it, that's going to help you more than all the other mods you made, and your ears are going to thank you every time you run a board through it.

The roller bearings, power feed motor, and sucking sound the DC make together are louder than the carbide inserts cutting across the board. You can have an actual conversation with someone standing at the planer. You have to raise your voice more than normal but you don't have to yell like you would with straight knives.

Get the spiral head you'll not be sorry in terms of finish, or decibals.

[Jeremy Williams]

Well, Woodmaster has the spiral head on sale this month ... $995 ... decisions, decisions!

[Daren Rogers]

Matthew,

I'm just about to modify my Woodmaster 718 per your mod, but had a couple of slight worries about it.

First, you are dropping a 96 lb. motor (replacement cost approx. $600) onto a single Fenner Power Twist belt. That's a hell of a way to tension the belt! I love it, and don't get me wrong because Woodmaster's method is to loosen the bolts and slide the motor... but of course you go all the way to the stops and the belts still screech when they start up, and the head vibrates, etc., and the two belts are obviously of different tension, etc. etc... So the machine obviously doesn't have a factory designed method of keeping the belts tight.

However, have you considered what putting roughly a hundred pounds of pressure on the cutterhead bearings has on them? Or do you think it matters? Not being critical, just a concern I have before I take the leap.

And my other thought is, by hanging the motor on a hinge (disregarding the above about weight on the bearings) you have the full hundred pound motor suspended by the two belts. But when you take off one of the belts, it may solve the uneven belt tension issue, but now a very expensive motor is hanging by one belt. And if the belt should break, unlikely as that might be, don't you risk damaging the motor when it hits the concrete floor?

Again, I'm ready to do it because I'm sick of the vibration and the problems with tensioning the belts. I don't see why Woodmaster designed the machine with two belts on the cutterhead, but that's neither here nor there: I'm certainly willing to get rid of one if it isn't necessary, and I believe you when you say that only one is necessary. But what about those two issues, the weight on the bearings and the chance of damaging the motor if the belt breaks?

Thanks a bunch. Great photos, by the way.

Steve
aka Darren

[DAVID DILLON]

Hi all,I'm now the proud owner of a 718 and a drum sander,I had to purchase a digital three phase convertor for here in the U.K.I haven't a clue how it all goes together and reading this forum has made me think I've been a fool,it was all so expensive with shipping and customs fees,still I'm wiring up my new shed as best I can and employing a trade lecy to do the rest,I have also put everything on castors so to utilize the space I have,but what I'm reading on the forum makes for a bad choice,so i'll just have to make the best of it and glean any hints from here,wish I had found this forum before I bought,any advice will be appreciated, MAC.

[Jeremy Williams]

Hi all,I'm now the proud owner of a 718 and a drum sander,I had to purchase a digital three phase convertor for here in the U.K.I haven't a clue how it all goes together and reading this forum has made me think I've been a fool,it was all so expensive with shipping and customs fees,still I'm wiring up my new shed as best I can and employing a trade lecy to do the rest,I have also put everything on castors so to utilize the space I have,but what I'm reading on the forum makes for a bad choice,so i'll just have to make the best of it and glean any hints from here,wish I had found this forum before I bought,any advice will be appreciated, MAC.

Hey Mac

I don't think you made a bad choice, it's a nice machine. Over advertise? Yes, but still a good machine none-the-less. Let us know how it turns out for you in practice.

[David Kumm]

Link belts are fractional HP belts and not made for a 5 hp motor. A VX would be better. As to the spiral, I think that is a good choice for the WM. The problem with any molder used for planing is the lack of a chipbreaker and pressure bar in close proximity to the head. The spiral slices wood in a different way so the need for the chipbreaker is reduced and the knives have less tendency to lift the board as it passes by which reduces the need for the pressure bar. Also helps with the snipe on the leading end problem. Part of the reason spirals do so well on some machines but are less noticeable on others. Dave

[Jim Andrew]

I had a Woodmaster 718, and although it was 5 hp and my Grizzly 453 is 3 hp, I can plane faster with the Griz, as it has a higher feed speed than the 20" planers. In the high speed it runs 30 fpm.