Get yourself an air 'cleaner'

[Jeff Raymond]

OK.

I used to be a real cowboy about sawdust.

Figuring that, "What the heck, what can a little sawdust do to a guy?"

What I found out was that it is very destructive to the lungs, makes a messy shop, is a fire hazard and is general a very bad work environment, not to mention sapping the grease out of fittings, premature wear on open motor windings, blah, blah, blah.

So in setting up the new shop, I have been very careful about dust. Put in a dust collection with 1 micron bags, dust collect every dust-generator in the shop and now have installed an overhead dust filter.

What a difference!

Now the shop is relatively free and clean of dust, a pleasure to work in. A few moments every now and then to do the little clean up gives me some time to think about what I am doing between steps.

Call me a wimp, but don't call me dusty.

[Chuck Lenz]

Jeff, all very good points. The older I get, the less I can tolerate dust, my lungs just can't handle it anymore. Too many years without a dust collector, a air filtration unit, and a dust mask. In the summer it's not as big as a issue as it is in the winter with all the doors and windows shut, plus a open flame woodstove going. Some days the air got so full of fine dust that I was really concerned about the shop exploding.

[jason lambert]

I am 34 been woodwork as a hobbie all my life on and off as I get older (not that I am old) I find my lungs being less torable of dust. When I stop working for a month or so they feel better, when I start woodworking again I can tell my throught and lungs are more sensitive. Not that this bothers me I like sawdust the smell is awesome. But I have to wonder. Now I am buying all festools and in my new shop I will have a real dust colector, I think it is worth the investnment and whish I did it years ago.

[Darryl Hazen]

My father was a woodworker (hobby). He's the one that got me hooked on woodworking. He passed away several years ago. Cause of death was idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis. His doctor said it's similar to black lung disease that coal miners used to get. He contributed my father's death to breathing in sawdust.

Bottom line - WEAR protective gear !

[Tyler Howell]

Lots of documented info on this subject. Thanks for the reminder. Well stated.

[Patrick Grady]

Good reminder for us to use more caution while working in a dusty shop. I intend to change some of my practices. I wanted to include an experience from years ago where as a competitive distance runner I decided to avoid the fridig outside night air and try running in some underground tunnels under my work buildings. After ten minutes I could feel tightness in my chest. I toned the workouts back and dismissed the chest sensations as being temperature-related. I tried the tunnels a few times more and finally recognized the problem as being air-quality related (same air I breathed during the work day) and never ran the tunnels again. Again, good reminder (I won't need to put a treadmill in my shop to test the air,) and my first step will be to banish that belt sander to the frigid night air until I get some filtration.

[Maurice Ungaro]

It was like night and day when I suspended a filtration unit above my workspace. I let that thing run for a few hours, and went back in there. I could't believe how much easier I could breathe.

Worth the money? At what price your health?

[Danny Thompson]

What brand and models do you guys recommend?

I did some rabbetting with my router last weekend and I haven't been able to breathe since. I'm couphing up goo right and left. Outside of calling my doctor, I think my next big step should be to buy one of these.

(Note to self: Next time, rabbet on the table saw.)

Thanks.

[Bill Wyko]

I'm running a JET air filter and a JET 1100cfm 2 micron dust filtration system. I still use a respirator. My shop is 12x20 and one cut on the table saw and the shop is full of dust.

[Chuck Lenz]

What brand and models do you guys recommend?

I did some rabbetting with my router last weekend and I haven't been able to breathe since. I'm couphing up goo right and left. Outside of calling my doctor, I think my next big step should be to buy one of these.

(Note to self: Next time, rabbet on the table saw.)

Thanks.
JDS is supose to be the leader of the pack in air filtration machines and good customer suport also I hear. I bought a Delta 50-875 because it was the best deal at the time. From what I have red in many reviews, the biggest issue I see with these types of machines is the shipping, as in what kind of shape your going to get it in when it arrives at your door. I bought mine from a local contractor and woodworking supply store, that way if there was a problem with the condition of it I could have it takein care of right away.

[Jim Kountz]

I built mine from an old furnace "cage" fan/blower. Its just a box pretty much with two filters a fine and a coarse. The coarse traps the larger particles while the finer one does the sub 1 micron filtering. I wired in a timer for it and it works great. Total cost was less than $40 since I was able to salvage the blower from an old gas furnace out of a mobile home. I have noticed a huge difference in the shop with it installed. When I do have to sand something I have a large downdraft table hooked to my DC, my sander in connected to a vac and the overhead filter is going all at the same time. When Im done sanding I just leave the shop for 10-20 mintues and when I get back its like I never sanded in there at all. The fine dust that used to collect on all the flat surfaces is much less now too.

[Mark Engel]

I'm reminded of an old quote I heard years ago:

"You can buy an air filter, or, you can be an air filter."

[Jeff Raymond]

Thanks to all in your support of the original posting.

I did the cowboy routine in the 80's and developed a serious pulmonary condition which took years to cleanse. Now with the air filter and great attention to this matter, life is good and the shop is now a viable option.

I bought a dual filter Pioneer at the local Western Tool Supply for $200 and change.

Simple...and good.

[Chuck Lenz]

Jeff, that Pioneer looks very close to my Delta 50-875, the only difference I see is the control panel on the back. The specs are the same. I'd say you did allright.

[Andy Calenzo]

My name is Andy Calenzo and I am an engineer at Oneida Air Systems. Having read most of the replies to Jeff's original post, I note that they all contain some really good points on the negative effects of wood dust. I did want to make a quick comment in regard to ceiling mounted air cleaners. The main problem that I personally have with these air cleaners is the location of the unit itself. Logic tells me that what you really want to have happen is for airborne wood dust to drop to the floor as quickly as possible. Conversely, what you don't want, is for the fine particulate dust to be floating around your eyes, nose, and mouth where it get into your mucous membranes and lung tissue. This means that ideally, the air cleaner would be mounted down closer to the floor. Possibly a low wall mounted unit?? Mind you that I am not saying a wall mount unit actually exists, I am just trying to be an advocate for an air cleaner design where the unit can be near, or on the floor. An example of something similar to this is the situation where some of our Oneida customers open their floor sweep hoods (these hoods rest right on the floor) to intentionally pull airborne dust downward toward the floor and away from where it can be breathed in. This can be done whether the collector is drawing dust off tools at that point in time or not (note that if you are running a tool that requires really aggressive suction, you may not be able to open any additional blastgate(s) such as one that would be controlling a floor sweep hood). My final comment on this topic is that if you have a dust collector that is capable of generating high tool port air velocity and can catch most, if not all the dust at the source, the potential for having airborne dust in your shop is probably a non-issue.

[Chuck Lenz]

Andy, most of the air fitration companies that I know of suggest puting the air unit up high. As far as collecting all the fine dust at the source, most machines thats next to impossible to do.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi. I'd agree with the post by Andy Calenzo.

I use an Oneida cyclone that has a cartridge filter, and I have almost no fine dust in the shop at all.

I normally run with the blast gate open on the machine I am using, plus a floor sweep at the opposite end of the room.

The only exceptions to this are when I use the tablesaw, i(t has a cabinet blast gate, and another for the overarm guard), or the band saw which has two 4 inch blast gates.

If you let the dust get into the air to be removed by the air filter, it's already been inhaled by you.

Regards, Rod.

[Steven Wilson]

I'm reminded of an old quote I heard years ago:

"You can buy an air filter, or, you can be an air filter."

Unfortunately your lugs are breathing the same air as your air filter. If you need to use an air filter wear a respirator. The air filters are only good for cleaning up after the fact.

[Andy Calenzo]

Response to Chuck's #13 Post:

Chuck - It's Andy Calenzo from Oneida again. Regarding the manufacturer's recommendation that the air cleaner be placed up high, if the net effect produced by the air cleaner is that the airborne dust is being drawn away from your eyes, nose, and throat - I can sign up for a ceiling mount location. It would be interesting to see what would happen if fine particulate dust was intentionally released so that it would float around in the shop without the air cleaner running, and then with the air cleaner running. A particle counter, mounted 5 feet above the shop floor, would then be used to measure how many airborne particles are present in the shop in both cases. The results could be compared to one another. I am quite certain that while the ceiling mounted air cleaner is running, the total number of airborne particles would decrease. However, I don't think that the number of particles would decrease as rapidly as it would if you pulled the particles down toward the floor. Let's say for example, that you are running a woodworking tool where some of the dust is escaping and getting away from the suction produced by the dust collection system. Now suppose the air cleaner is running above your head. Isn't it reasonable to assume that these escaping dust particles are being pulled upward right past your eyes, nose and throat as they travel toward the intake of the ceiling mounted air cleaner?? I would submit that this is exactly the kind of thing that you don't want to have happen.

Final comment: Our Oneida cyclonic dust collectors, provided the ductwork is properly sized and blastgates are used at each drop, typically produce tool port velocities of between 4500 feet per minute and 5500 feet per minute. We have operated our cyclones extensively on tools that are very difficult to collect from (best example: CNC router) and find that we can typically capture almost all of the dust generated. Especially the fine lighter dust that is usually the easiest to pull into a dust collection port because of its low size and weight.

[Gary Keedwell]

Andy...Thank-you for bringing your expertise to our humble forum;) I am sure that everybody who comes to SMC would love to have a system like your company sells. However, due to circumstances beyond our control, alot of us have to improvise the best we can.
I would definetly like to hear more about the best possible location of my filter. What you say about ceiling installation makes alot of sense. Alot of times when there is airborne dust in my basement shop, I will turn it on and leave the basement for an hour or so. I know I should wear some kind of mask, but I find them very uncomfortable. Anyways, until I have the situation where I can have a good system, I'll just have to suck it up. (pun intended).;)
Gary

[Chuck Lenz]

Andy, I understand what you are saying about dust particles are being pulled upward right past your eyes, nose and throat as they travel toward the intake of the ceiling mounted air cleaner. But wouldn't that hold true for dust that is falling also ? Most dust collectors, especially the older models that had 30 micron bags were not really dust collectors, they are chip collectors spewing fine dust higher than the bags are. A 4000 CFM industrial dust collector I think is past the budget of most one man hobbyist woodworking shops. I'm sure that any dust collector that has a cartridge filter is a improvement over the bags. I guess it would be interesting to see what JDS says about hanging the air filtration unit up high. Andy I would also like to add that I believe that you people make some very nice products, if it was in my budget I'd luv to have one of your cyclones, I have been looking at them for some time now and I do value your opinions. Dust collection and air filtration seems to be a very interesting and debatable subject that I think people are becomeing more aware of, and they should be, especially if they are working in enclosed shops.

[Tom Walz]

I have no connection with any of these. I did this list as a favor for a customer a few years ago. If you want to build your own from scratch the free data is great. If you just want a component or two you can find a supplier.

Equipment Suppliers:

1. AAF International (American Air Filters) –(305) 443-9353 – small line but appropriate for most shop applications – great technical support – (see articles section above). Excellent technical advice.

2. Abicor Binzel (301) 846-4196 Frederick, MD - They only supply fume extraction guns for welding. Great product if you need it.

3. Airflow Systems (214) 503-8008 Dallas, TX – wide variety of units, overhead units, downdraft tables, and portable units – “Dust and fume Exhaust” pamphlet has good technical information. Recommended for literature.

4. Coppus (508) 756-8391 Millbury, MA – unique, portable dust collection systems – also employee coolers for hot areas. Unique products.

5. Dust Vent, Inc. (630) 543-9007 Addison, IL. – Wide range of equipment and good literature. Recommended for literature.

6. Eurovac (905) 850-9828 in Ontario. –Central vacuum cleaner systems and other dust collection equipment.

7. Farr Pollution Control Products (800) 479-6801 Los Angeles, CA. – Overhead cleaning with or without arms.

8. Gardner Environmental Products (414) 485-4303 Horicon, WI –Ceiling mounted and portable units.

9. Industrial Ventilation Group (800) 610-6010 Harbor Springs, MI –Central and portable units, downdraft tables. Recommended for literature.

10. Lincoln Electric (216) 481-8100 –Offers a central collection system and portable units –just one mention in their catalog.

11. MAC Equipment, Inc. (800) 821-2476 – Huge, complete catalog. Excellent information, great source to build your own system. Recommended for literature.

12. Nederman (313) 729-3344 Westland, MI –Nice literature –looks like nice overhead arm extraction equipment –good information on Do It Yourself. Recommended for literature.

13. Plymovent (732) 417-0808 New Jersey –good equipment –great free booklet “My Pocketguide to Clean Fresh Air”. Recommended for literature.

14. Sly, Inc. (216) 891-3200 Cleveland, OH –Shop size central collection systems to huge industrial systems. Recommended for literature.

15. Trion (800) 421-3956 Greensboro, NC –Overhead units –they advertise a free clean air guide.

16. United Air Specialists (800) 551-5401 Cincinnati, Ohio –Invented the original smoke eaters for bars, etc. –Good equipment –good literature and great technical help. Recommended for literature.

[Bob Feeser]

I had posted this earlier in another thread. I want to say that Onieda makes some nice stuff. I have been drooling at it for quite some time. When I speak about this, I am talking about using the shop level air cleaners, and vac system. I am using the JDS units. 2 air cleaners and 1 vac collector.
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/412JMKN84EL._AA280_.jpghttp://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/41QTKWK283L._AA280_.jpghttp://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/412JMKN84EL._AA280_.jpg


I understand the cyclone units run a lot cleaner, but the main point I want to make is that if you grow accustomed to wearing a face mask, for those times when the vac or collectors are not catching it, your lungs will be around for the long run. A mask like this is handy to use, and wear as a bib in front of you, and only used when you are in the thick of it. http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/4118QR4BS7L._AA280_.jpg

So here is the earlier post.
I have 2 JDS ceiling mounted air cleaners in a 725 sq ft shop. It cleans the air very quickly, but let me define "cleans" the air. Even if it got 90 percent of particles down to 1 micron, how efficiently is it cleaning the particles below 1 micron. Then again, how about the 10 percent of 1 micron particles it is not cleaning?

Since the super fine stuff is what causes the lung problems, the air cleaner can easily create a false sense of security.
Here is an experiment. Go into you shop fresh, as in the first visit for the day. Not doing any woodwork yet, turn on your air cleaners. Take a whiff. What do you smell? Wood dust. The air cleaners are spewing out ultra fine particles, not ones you can see, but rather ones you can smell.

Much cleaner cyclone units might be the answer. I especially like the units with the separator mounted outside. That's a heat loss problem, but that is better than a lung loss one.

For the rest of us, the trick is to let the air cleaners catch the big stuff while you are working, but more importantly is to use a good professional face mask to catch everything before it reaches your lungs. I bought a nice 3M carbon filter unit, with a plastic-rubber like face frame at Home Depot for a little under 30 dollars. For capturing wood dust, a mask like that can give you good service for a very long time. Forget the paper masks, they leak so bad, it is almost like not having a mask on at all.

My favorite setup is a fan in a window during the warmer months. Then I can skip the dust collection system altogether. When working on something that creates dust, I simply flip up the face mask, that I wear as a bib, and enjoy clear breathing. I leave it on for several minutes until the air clears out of the shop. I make sure that an open window providing a fresh air source is open on the other end of the shop.

I am not knocking air cleaners, if I had to do it over again, I would still buy them. I just think that it is important to know that they create as much of a problem as they solve. That is pretty much the con side of it, the pros are that they really help in keeping a clean shop. My shop circa before air cleaners, always had a thick coating of dust on everything, now that is almost non existent.

My feeling, as someone else has mentioned, catch the dust at the source, or at least as much as possible. Ideally a cyclone system, gets most of it, that has the main unit outside.

The shop vac is just as guilty, even with the 1 micron bags. That's the subject of the shop vac post. Worth mentioning is that shop vacs with bags, even 1 micron bags, create the same type of problem as the dust collectors: they don't really capture everything, especially the finer stuff. I have a JDS Dust Force with 1 micron bag, and it is next to the window with the fan, so what is emnating from the bag is immediately going out the window. Remember, your best friend is a face mask. A phrase I like to say is, "Protect the most important tool in the shop, and that is you"

[Gary Keedwell]

Let me see now....I give up smoking...i give up drinking....I give up enjoyable food that is "unhealthy"...I give up wild woman (AIDS)...I worry about the air outside....I worry about the air inside...did I mention AIDS?....I worry about Mad Cow...I worry about the "bird thing"...I worry about some car rear ending me at stop sign because their too busy talking on cell phone...Did I mention Aids?..
Well, I got an air cleaner hanging from ceiling and a dust collecter at the machines....and I'm tired of worrying....I just want to go down to my basement shop and enjoy myself and immerse my mind into fun woodworking stuff........Well, I gotta go because I'm worried about that carpal tunnel thing a ma jig....
GK.