Stanley 55 experiments.

[Jake Darvall]

Hello,

Sorry to the traditionalists who disapprove of my experiments. But I enjoy using this contraption. And no book has ever helped me use this thing pracitcally. So I have to work it out for myself.

This threads going to be a 'work in progress' sort of thread. I'll just throw pictures in as it happens, whether they work or not. Bit of fun.

There's still a few things I want to try with the 55. Mostly I want to make wider cuts with it sucessfully. Which tempt failure, because the wider they go the more resistance.

The main attraction to being able to pull off wide cuts for me , is that I'll be able to make more profiles with just one blade. ie. can rip off multiples off the same profile without stuffing about with multiple blades.....resetting fences, depth stops etc. But also, I'm just curious how wide I can go.

The widist blade I've used so far is about 24mm........The next I want to try is 42mm.

Its quite a jump, but I think it'll work though because I cut its profile reversed. Blades don't come this way in the set, but this characteristic I definetly feel makes the plane perform well. As well as a deeper fence and lefthand depth stop.

I cut up the blade after work this afternoon. From a 'goodline' bench plane blade. A cheap looking plane. I didn't think the blade was particularily good....but (shrug) Soft. But I'll reharden it before use, so it should be fine.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/apricotripper/3-4.jpg

Flipped it over.......
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/apricotripper/4-4.jpg

This is how it'll sit in the plane when your looking down at it(photo above), whilst pushing it along. Its reversed because the lowest point on the blade is on the right (under the main skate). ie. that point hits the timber first. Which is always made better sense to me, because thats where the power is being directed.....straight down your right hand into the main skate......With blades from the origional set that flow down at the edge, the lowest points on the left and your right hand creates a lever effect pushing the plane over on the right (because the main skates doesn't touch the timber for a while), which causes all sorts of instability problems IMO.

Also with the profile reversed I've found it'll tend to draw the fence tighter into the stock. Just makes life easier. And you can drop to depth in half the time

Anyway, for the experiment I copied off this .
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/apricotripper/2-4.jpg

Its from an old woodie which I only bearly got going some time ago.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/apricotripper/1-5.jpg
Which probably I'll never use again because the profile on the soles not consistant all the way through....There's I rise on the nose I either hadn't noticed earlier or has just happened . Been raining a lot lately.

See how we go.

[David Weaver]

Jake - what kind of wood are you planning to run that across? Just soft woods? If you're doing hardwoods, you might have to get kind of rough.

I have a mental block with using mine for anything in hardwoods other than cutting plow grooves or easy profiles - for fear that I will break something on it.

Perhaps the best thing to do would be to purchase a junker that has all of the parts that normally break, but something else wrong with it, and use those parts when getting rough.

What did you use to make that cut? that's pretty aggressive.

[David N. Williams]

When I saw the cutter I thought, "That's different... quirked ogee with astragal? bead?? double ogee???" From looking at the woodie, I think maybe that it's supposed to be a bevel. The profiles get smoothed over time, though.

Looking forward to photos of these monsters mounted in your 55. Mercy!

Nicely done.:cool:

[Jake Darvall]

Jake - what kind of wood are you planning to run that across? Just soft woods? If you're doing hardwoods, you might have to get kind of rough.

I have a mental block with using mine for anything in hardwoods other than cutting plow grooves or easy profiles - for fear that I will break something on it.

Just soft thankyou very much. Want an easy ride for the experiment uno. I'll just try on a bit of pine scrap.

I don't like using it on hardwoods either. Harder work. Blades bluntens faster....can start to get a bit unrealistic sometimes. I rarely have a need to use it on hardwoods anyway. And most of the hardwoods that I do have access too here are just too gnarly really. Wouldn't touch them with most planes. only power rout, scrapers, sandpaper. uno.



Perhaps the best thing to do would be to purchase a junker that has all of the parts that normally break, but something else wrong with it, and use those parts when getting rough.

What did you use to make that cut? that's pretty aggressive.

yeh. right with you there. My 55 is a junker. Actually, technically its probably not a 55 anymore. :o I've changed it a fair bit.

I ground the blade with a thin AlO wheel. Its near 8" diameter mounted on a grinder. (Just like a regular grinding wheel but thin with a convex profile.) So you can grind in and out of valleys of your profile freehand.Then I just buff the edge polished.

I was lucky to score a few of these wheels from the local mill. At that 8" size there considered 'used'...so he just gave them to me free......When new, their a lot bigger and they run in some automated sharpening machine that drops into the gullets of these big mill saws. Fascinating to watch I thought.Can get you a picture of my grinding setup if you like. Doesn't look flash but it may make what I'm talking about more clear.

What worries me, is keeping the blade stable enough up till the auxiliary skate engages the timber.....once it engages I think it'll be ok. I'll try and get some time in tomorrow.

[Jake Darvall]

When I saw the cutter I thought, "That's different... quirked ogee with astragal? bead?? double ogee???" From looking at the woodie, I think maybe that it's supposed to be a bevel. The profiles get smoothed over time, though.

Looking forward to photos of these monsters mounted in your 55. Mercy!



I reakon you'd know more about the names than me David. I tried to get into remembering them etc, but I've kinda given up....just use words like 'wavey bits'......and 'flat bits on top' ......and ' thingos' :D :o

I'll throw in plenty of photos. Should be fun. Hopefully I won't prang it.

[David Weaver]

No trouble with the pictures - not needed for my benefit, but I know what you're talking about. One of the fellows we get hardwoods from here has made a sort of side job his entire life of doing work on large circular sawmill blades - would figure he probably has something similar to do the gumming. I may ask him to see his selection of used, and useless to him grinding wheels.

Using the 55 is sort of a conondrum - if you use it on hardwoods, it feels awkward and dangerous (danger in terms of breaking something on it). If you use it on softwoods, it's sometimes hard to get a nice finish. Our local hardwoods would be "medium woods" to anyone in australia, though. They're still workable.

I saw the pictures of your 55 with screws through it and was a little bit jealous. I have managed to experiment fine with mine, but a more substantial fence in terms of size and weight would be very nice to have.

[Jake Darvall]

Using the 55 is sort of a conondrum - if you use it on hardwoods, it feels awkward and dangerous (danger in terms of breaking something on it). If you use it on softwoods, it's sometimes hard to get a nice finish. Our local hardwoods would be "medium woods" to anyone in australia, though. They're still workable.


I agree.......this tools really a pain in the butt. Can get them to work, but its hard not to think its design can be improved upon. Sometimes I really have to nurse it. For me personally I felt I had to abandon using it as it comes at least for the larger blades. Thats why I keep raving on about changing it for the better. Reverse blades and high fences etc.



I saw the pictures of your 55 with screws through it and was a little bit jealous. I have managed to experiment fine with mine, but a more substantial fence in terms of size and weight would be very nice to have.


Its really good to hear from somebody who has similar thoughts David !

That 55 experiment I had was for panel raising....that was with a spare sliding skate that I had. Using different parts this time.

Right with you with having a larger fence.....it makes a big difference. Stablisizes the whole thing for a lot of cuts I've found. There's a thread here somewhere I started on making picture frames I was doing that showing pictures of this big scruffy fence I was using. But I'm using something different now that makes the fence height adjustable, which I'm finally happy with.

When I get a chance to get this thing going, I'll show pictures.

[Jim Dunn]

To push a blade that size your going to need a motor of some sort. Or is it one of those gallon sized Aussie beers?

I'm looking forward to your experiment Jake. Cheers!

[Jake Darvall]

Your right Jim. As it turned out out, a motor would have helped. :D

I gave it a go yesterday. mixed results.

picture 1 - tried planing into thin stock first. ie. mimimal fence support. Easy to plane up to about the 1st half of the blades width....can see it dropping in on the main skate side first. Which was what I hoped for.

picture 2 - But then she got hard. about here....the more and more that quirk dropped in, and all that scraping it brings, the more the plane began to roll to try and get out of all this abuse I was giving it. Because it could. I didn't have enough leverage on my supporting hand to hold it vertical.

picture 3 - but perservered....with stop/start shavings all the time mind you and planed to depth. But I don't wish it on anyone. Afterwards I felt like I'd just played a game of Rugby on a hot day.

picture 4 - thats it. But its no good.....there's cutter marks all along its length cause I couldn't muster the strength to make a complete shaving from one end to the other. not practical. forget it.

hang on.... a bit more next post.

[Jake Darvall]

So, I tried it with thicker timber. better fence support. To try and get that comparison.

Picture 1 - and the improvement was noticeable straight away, as it has been in the past. Got complete shavings I could rip off quite quickly up to about 3/4's of the blades width.

But still it got too hard to push to drop it that last 1/4, as that scraping quirk engaged. It locked up and I got stability, but no matter how thin a shaving I set it, the plane would bite too deeply for a comfortable stroke. I did manage to get a full shaving in at depth, but still I won't be doing it again in a hurry.

picture 2 and 3 - final cuts there.

So 42mm is too wide. Thinking it would have been a lot easier without that quirk in the profile too.

I've still got half of that old goodline blade left. Might just grind it up with a simplier flowing profile next and see if its easier.

[Jim Dunn]

That is my question, Jake would it be easier if the profile was simpler? I'm sure if the profile was measured your 42mm blade was cutting more like, what 72mm? It is a good looking accomplishment even if it's not practical!

[Jake Darvall]

That is my question, Jake would it be easier if the profile was simpler? I'm sure if the profile was measured your 42mm blade was cutting more like, what 72mm?

yep, I see what you mean. I'm guessing, that a 42mm plough blade would be easier to use......uno, cause its edge is just straight across.....but I don't really know, I haven't tried it yet.

Thats what I'll try next, with the other half of that goodline blade I butchered. :D ;)

Guessing that it may be tricky to start off the closest end of your stock......full face of blade making a sudden start. With the profiles, the blade sees your timber not all at once like it.

[Jim Koepke]

Found this site while searching about information on Tung Oil.
The Stanley 55 threads caught my eye and got me to join up.
One of the first things bought on eBay was my 55. Having some experience with a 45 that came from my dad, which he got from one of his grandfathers, got me hooked.
Have cut some molding and decrative work with the 45 & 55.
Seeing the posts and your experiments/experiences will be a help on future projects.

Keep it coming,

Jim

If you are not totally confused, perhaps you do not understand the situation.
--Edward Murrow

[Jim Dunn]

Welcome Jim, glad to see another Jim here. Now if I could just find a 55 I'd be happy.

[Jake Darvall]

ok. Here's some more. Please don't hold back if you've got any photos yourself ...

Picture 1 - I clued onto what contributed to that blade being so hard to push.....my fault. The picture didn't turn out as well as I liked. The whole edge is reflecting there.......but where I've got circled there in red......its blunt. I didn't have much time I suppose, so I was in such a hurry to grind it up that I didn't grind the edge up high enough. So, I was actually trying to cut with a blunt portion of the blade right near final depth ...:rolleyes: . So, I should really try it again with it re-sharpened properly.

picture 2 -...... The next experiment.....I ground up the other half of that bench plane blade with a more friendlier profile........just a mild sweeping looking thing. A cove of sorts I suppose. Which I like.

Picture 3 - showing it being cut.
picture 4 - finished........piece of cake. Completely different to the first. Very easy cut despite its width. Quite relieved about that because I have a few other wide profiles I'd like to try.

picture 5 - Just thinking about how I could use a profile like this.... I just cut a sample mitre out of it, to have a bit of a think.....profile like this could contribute some kind of crown or anything really. Shallow enough profile that I reakon you could impose other profiles right off it. So, its a keeper I'd say.

[Jim Dunn]

Jake I notice, I think, in pictures 4 and 5 that there is a small score mark in the finished surface. Is it from the supports of the plane? Not much of a detriment really and I like the gentle curve of the cut. It will make a nice looking picture frame without the added profile.

So this one was easier to push than that other "big ole honkin" multiple cut blade?

[Jake Darvall]

yep, I didn't have any problem with this one thank god....

That line mark there, is from the sliding skate.... Be nice if it wasn't there, but I feel I'd have trouble avoiding that.

It doesn't bother me though...thats something that can be delt with latter.

I'm thinking of trying a lambstongue or something like it next. Something that sweeps mildly like that again, but with a bit more.

Curious, what does Pacific, Mo mean ?

[Jim Dunn]

Named after the Union Pacific Railroad that passes through town. The Mo. is short Missouri, for the state. Small town, around 5,000 people, about 200 years old. Just west of St. Louis, Mo. Right in the heart of the United States.

As you can tell I'm not very proficient with the names of the parts of a 55 or for that matter any planes. Just reminds me of my machinist days with cutting the profiles in the blades. We wouldn't drive a blade of that width in one pass. Probably make multiple tools and passes for a profile like the first one.

[Jake Darvall]

Named after the Union Pacific Railroad that passes through town. The Mo. is short Missouri, for the state. Small town, around 5,000 people, about 200 years old. Just west of St. Louis, Mo. Right in the heart of the United States.

I'm going to have to see America one day. So many places I've never heard of before.

My town here is a similar size. but only about 100 years old.



As you can tell I'm not very proficient with the names of the parts of a 55 or for that matter any planes. Just reminds me of my machinist days with cutting the profiles in the blades. We wouldn't drive a blade of that width in one pass. Probably make multiple tools and passes for a profile like the first one.
I probably don't really use the proper names for a lot of parts, which probably is a bit lazy on my part. I don't think it really matters though. As long as I can work out what that 'thingy' does :D uno.

I'd say your right, its probably a bit too ambitious. But I enjoy experimenting with it. Seems to be quite a few more things to try yet.

[Jake Darvall]

- re-sharpened that first tricky blade up properly. Tried it back on the pine. A little better, but still too hard. abandoning that blade now.

- and since that long sweeping cove blade (the second blade) worked so well, I thought it was worth a go on some hardwood. The bit of scrap I used is blue gum.

It took a lovely cut of the hardwood. Very clean.....easy going all the way up to about 38mm, at which point I began to struggle.... I was determined to get the shoulder down, but just too hard for me.... which is where I stopped (picture 1).... so I'd say..

no more than about 35mil for a blade with a profile like that on hardwood.

[David Weaver]

Looks like a very nice clean cut. You may prove the whole apparatus useful yet - I haven't been able to do it for anything other than novelty, though my plane isn't tricked out like yours with a proper fence, and I have used it for little more than plowing in hardwoods.

Do you have any idea what blue gum compares to over here? Like Mahogany, Cherry or Maple or any of that kind of stuff? It looks like it works nicely.

[Jake Darvall]

Never know.

I'm not sure what blue gum Compares too David. Its not really a traditional furniture making wood I'd say. We use it at work....joinery timber.
. I'll ask some blokes what they think it compares too.

I lot of the stuff isn't planeable.....you have to think about using high angled planes etc to bother. Can tear a lot uno. So as usual you have to be selective.

[Jake Darvall]

I asked the question back here in australia.

Eli said this....
Eucalyptus saligna is twice as hard as Teak, Black Walnut, or Cherry on the Janka Hardness scale for wood flooring. Not as hard as Mahogany.

Its here if interested.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?p=602324#post602324

[David Weaver]

Thanks for the response. Definitely a difference between your mahogany and ours. Ours is, I believe, closer to cherry than it is to oak or maple.

Around here, twice as hard as black walnut is a very hard wood. From feel and furniture that I have, black walnut seems almost as hard as Oak, not quite as hard as hard maple.

Seems like here and in europe, we have soft hardwoods.

[Jim Dunn]

Jake I see that your still experimenting with blade widths and such. I like the profile in that last picture. Nice smooth curve and such nice looking wood as well.

Been fishing the past week and not here to comment:)

[Jake Darvall]

Thanks for the response. Definitely a difference between your mahogany and ours. Ours is, I believe, closer to cherry than it is to oak or maple.

Around here, twice as hard as black walnut is a very hard wood. From feel and furniture that I have, black walnut seems almost as hard as Oak, not quite as hard as hard maple.

Seems like here and in europe, we have soft hardwoods.
No problem David. I'm learning stuff too.

yeh, much of the local hardwoods here go into dwellings. They blunten your blades quickly. I'm quite stubborn about using my hand planes at work, but sometimes I just have to abandon them on some timbers, else I take too long. just too hard and gnarly. Unfortunately though, cause that means I'll end the day covered in dust :rolleyes:

Blue gums well liked here though. Too me its the nicest of the gums.

You catch any Jim ! :D

[Jake Darvall]

Anyway, heres the next experiment. Actually have tried it already, but I want to try it with a bigger blade.

picture 1 - The one I've tried already is the smaller blade there on the right. I've been calling it a 'v' cutter because of its shape. But no doubt its been used somewhere before and has an official name.

It basically cuts a V in your timber. Got the idea a while back while talking with Clinton, and I think Mike was in there too about rounds, where you'd normally use ploughs to establish depth, then follow with a round.... The V cut idea will work the same as the plough, but I feel will help to fit into the Valleys of profiles better. And can remove more stock that would otherwise have to be taken with the round.....and also, I felt it would stabilise the round better...Not that you need a blade like this, but it may help. (shrug)

But my first use for it, was in making a jig to support dowel on the drill press.

And I'm not sure which of the other two blades I'm going to try it out on. Thinking will try it out on the largest, and see how deep I can go. Can always set the depth stop before it gets too ruff.

[Jake Darvall]

Did a little bit of sharpening on it this afternoon.

on the middle blade... little flat for the adjustable skate to sit on...flared the right side of the blade for good skate clearance.

Will harden and hone latter.

[Jake Darvall]

worked ok I thought.

Might try that splitter blade next.

[Chuck Hamman]

Jake,
I'd like to jump into your thread here if you don't mind.
I've enjoyed all your threads on using these combo planes and your latest experiment hit home because just last night I was trying to plow with the 3/4" round - making some cove molding. Your idea of removing stock with the V-shaped blade is a good one and I think I'll try it.
My biggest problem with the 55 is getting the blade depth set to make a sensible cut. It seems I'm either cutting nothing or I'm hogging off so much material that it jams the throat. Do you have any secrets your willing to share on using that blade adjuster? That adjuster has to be about the worst I've ever seen.

Thanks,
-Chuck

[Jake Darvall]

yep, shore Chuck. I'll try and get some photos together on what I thinks important, next chance I get....and try and makes some sense for you.

I could attempt writing it all out now, but, I kinda find it easier with pictures. I'm no wordsmith.