Assembling Shop Tools: Advice needed

[John Karam]

(I Ranted On, Feel Free To skip to the Bolded Sections :-)

Hello everyone, I'm new here. I've been reading the forums for a little while and must say I have found a lot of interesting information here. You all have done a great job at creating a very educational community. A little about myself, I'm a college student who enjoys woodworking. I consider it something that will be a serious hobby of mine in the future, starting as soon as I get my tools. I prefer to build fine furniture with interesting designs. I like to design what I build as well.

I'm posting tonight because I have been doing the necessary research in picking out my core tools for the shop I'm putting together and I find myself, like many others, worried I'm going to make the wrong choices. I will be using the shop in my spare time, once I'm finished with school I shall have a lot more time (I HOPE!). I want to keep this as a hobby but I could see my self building a few pieces on the side for friends and family (or whoever else would ask me to). I'm very much a quality freak, in my work and in my tools (I tend to measure my pieces several thousand times before cutting anything and I have trouble buying anything less then the best:o).

I have a basic Ridgid table saw and though I would like to upgrade to a really nice cabinet saw I'm holding out on it for now to see how far this one can take me. My designs tend to include a lot of curvature so I need an excellent band saw. I've little experience with the lathe though I would like to get into it. I looking to purchase a Jointer, Planer, Band Saw, Drill Press, and Spindle Sander. Also want to get a Router Table setup for my router, though I've heard (around here) that it may be better to build my own, and a Hollow Chisel Mortiser but I know I can do fine without one.

After all my reading, these are what I've deduced as my options for each. Most I'm not 100% on which is better in the long run for me. My big debate is whether Grizzly tools will last me like a Powermatic, Laguna, etc tool will. I've excluded shipping on these prices.

Laguna LT16 Bandsaw - $1575
G0513X 17" 2 HP Extreme Series Bandsaw - $975
I've read Laguna has excellent BS and I want the ceramic guides but the unit is on the spendy side. Is it possible to change the guides on the G0513X for the ceramic guides? Other then the guides, is there any overall advantages I will be missing if I picked the Grizzly BS? Will I be missing the extra power in the Laguna motor? I will be using it mostly for curve cutting but I'm not sure how often I will be resawing large pieces. I have in the past and will likely again. I am interested in the idea of cutting my own veneers as well.

G0490 8" Jointer with Parallelogram Beds - $800 3 HP Motor
G0586 8" Jointer w/2 HP Motor - $600
Is it worth getting the Parallelogram Beds over the traditional?

G0454 20" Planer - $1250
Powermatic 209 20" Planer - $2000
My most shaky decision, which one is better then the other? Is it just the name brand making the Powermatic that much more? I've always gone with "You get what you paid for" but I've heard a LOT of good things about Grizzly overall (for their newer tools). I like the idea of getting the Grizzly and saving the rest of the money for a cutter head upgrade in the future if I'm not happy with the cut quality. But I just need this to be a solid, accurate tool. I'm used to a large Powermatic Planer with a thicker infeed table, are these smaller tables sturdy when cutting large stock (12/4 walnut for example)?

Lathe
I did light research on these. My brother will be using the shop as well and he is more into the lathe then I am. He just wants a good quality lower end ($500ish?) one. Any suggestions? I've heard some good things about the Jet 1236.

JET 354165 JDP-15M 3/4 Horsepower 15-Inch Bench Drill Press - $350

Ridgid EB4424 Spindle Sander - $200

My main goal is to not feel limited by my tools. Especially since I like to try new things I know I will need a range of capabilities with my tools. So how have I done with my selections? Are there certain tools I should upgrade (or even downgrade since it is "overkill")? Cost is a relative issue, I don't want to spend my life savings but I'm willing to pay for what I "Need" to produce whatever I want and not feel limited.

I GREATLY appreciate any help, advice, stories, etc that you guys can provide me with. I just read through this and realized I wrote a long one....sorry about that.

Thanks Ahead

Johnny

[keith ouellette]

I have had both types of jointers (i've said that a lot lately) and like the paralel better. Unless there is a substantial differance between the 2hp and 3hp as in total weight or the 2hp being a dovetail way I would spend less money for the 2hp. Your taking small cuts with a jointer and don't need the extra power. As far as planers go. I bought a 20in planer that was a grizzly knock off and it has developed a harmonic vibration. A machine that large needs to be built to exacting specs to keep it running smoothly but I can't say that the powermatic is built any better for the money, especially these days.
good luck in your purchases.

[John Karam]

Thank you very much for your response, I'll take that into consideration. Has the vibration made any affect on the outcome of the boards you plane? I would assume it wouldn't cause a noticeable problem and I'd therefore be alright with a little vibration.

[keith ouellette]

not so far but I have not used it very much. Vibration gets worse over time if anything and can cause other things to go wrong. If the company I bought it from still existed and i thought i would get treated fairly I would send it back. Its only a year old. 20 inch planners have 5hp and a lot of start up tourq. Things can go from bad to worse real quick.

[John Karam]

Good point, it could cause parts to come loose. Has anyone else experienced noticeable vibrations when using the G0454 20'' planer?

[Jim Nardi]

Get a good drill press with a long throw. My thoughts are Delta. Jointer well I'd get the cheaper one. If your looking for the best, buy a bigger jointer 12" wide. Get the cheaper planer and spend the extra on a drum sander.

[keith ouellette]

Its not just a vibration but a harmonic one. It is kinda like a rythm which (i think) means something internally is off balance. Most machines will have a little vibration. I'm affraid mine is worse.

[John Karam]

I don't feel that I will be limited by an 8 inch jointer. I'd like to have a 10 inch but the price pretty much doubles for one of those. I will look into the delta drill press, thanks for the pointers.

keith, I hope your planer holds out for you.

[Jeff Raymond]

There is an old posting somewhere here called Big Deal New Shop that was a thread I'd started. I was where you were a few months ago.

I wound up with a Unisaw X, a 12-Delta Jointer (3ph) a Delta 20" planer (3ph) and the Delta 17" BS, and a General 63" bed Lathe. Also a Delta Big Boy DP. Then got a 3-phase converter to power up the jointer and the planer.

This is my second go around on a shop after being on the road in an rv for a number of years. What I learned from the first go around was hinted at here...especially when working with large pieces of rough lumber hardwood: Here it is: The tools you are using need to have some mass in them. When you are putting a say, 75 lb piece of wood into your jointer, you don't want it to be moving the machine. Further, I've found that the greater the mass of the machine, the better the cut; less chatter and a smoother operation.

It's easy to to get sucked into off-brand machines because they look good and are more 'affordable,' but your foundation equipment should be a one-time purchase. Much to my surprise, Delta has a program with retailers that offers them free shipping on orders over $2K. That means Delta is picking up the tab for literally tons of freight here. And lately they have been the most aggressive on pricing as well.

Now about a month or so into using all this stuff, I am very pleased with my purchase. I am especially pleased with the guys at Western Tool Supply who brought all my arn to the shop at no charge and put it in place. Unfortunately the store isn't too far away from my shop, so I buy way too much other stuff there, some of which I actually need.

Here's a small example: I'd bought a cheapo Rigid oscillating hand sander for use on the rv. But on a bed made from solid maple, the lightweight of the sander made the tool hop all over the place. So the Western Tool Guys suggested the Makita; heavier, easier to hold. What a difference! More mass, a handful of extra bucks, but much better work, which of course is the bottom line.

I would encourage anyone setting up a shop to go out and find the very best equipment they can find, look at shipping costs, a reliable supplier, all the factors that are important for the long run. You will be placing a big order and you can get someone's attention who will want your business. Let them work for it. You may spend a bit more, but you will get a LOT more in return that will last you many years.

That's free advice and worth every penny you just paid for it.

[Mark Valsi]

DO NOT GET A LATHE !!!


You will spend all your time playing on it !!! :D

[John Shuk]

I have a Laguna LT16 bandsaw. I bought mine when the model was new but I'm not impressed with what you get for the money. I'm not even sure I love the ceramic guides. They aren't the easiest to set and they need to be realigned when you raise or lower the blade guard more than and inch or so.
I definately was unhappy with the customer service as well. Other people's experiences have been better than mine though.

[keith ouellette]

There is an old posting somewhere here called Big Deal New Shop that was a thread I'd started. I was where you were a few months ago.

I wound up with a Unisaw X, a 12-Delta Jointer (3ph) a Delta 20" planer (3ph) and the Delta 17" BS, and a General 63" bed Lathe. Also a Delta Big Boy DP. Then got a 3-phase converter to power up the jointer and the planer.

This is my second go around on a shop after being on the road in an rv for a number of years. What I learned from the first go around was hinted at here...especially when working with large pieces of rough lumber hardwood: Here it is: The tools you are using need to have some mass in them. When you are putting a say, 75 lb piece of wood into your jointer, you don't want it to be moving the machine. Further, I've found that the greater the mass of the machine, the better the cut; less chatter and a smoother ...

I would encourage anyone setting up a shop to go out and find the very best equipment they can find, look at shipping costs, a reliable supplier, all the factors that are important for the long run. You will be placing a big order and you can get someone's attention who will want your business. Let them work for it. You may spend a bit more, but you will get a LOT more in return that will last you many years.

That's free advice and worth every penny you just paid for it.

It is very valuable advise ( I shortened the quote a little). WEIGHT IS A BIG FACTOR. Grizzly makes a ten inch jointer twice the weight of the eight inch just for the added weight but it is twice the cost. Everything you bought was twice what I spent (and what i spent was still more than i could afford). I would rather have your shop for sure but I can't. There is no denying that everything you said is right on the money.

[John Karam]

Jeff- Thanks for the thoughts, they make a huge amount of sense. I just finished reading the thread about your new shop, glad to see it all worked out for ya. I'm going to look into the "Delta Option" a bit more now. Free shipping would be nice. I also need to examine the weights of my current choices to see how they compare to others.

Mark- Last night I couldn't stop thinking about what I could do with a lathe...haha

John- I have heard a lot of shaky things about Laguna customer service, another reason I like Grizzly. The ceramic guides need to be readjusted when moved? Wow, I haven't heard that and thats not appealing to me at all. Thanks for your input!