For shame, for shame

[Wolf Kiessling]

I watched the evening national news and listened to the clamor over the indecency of the half time show during the Super Bowl yesterday evening. I want to add my outrage to this, also. If we are going to be exposing naked breasts, especially on a good looking gal like Janet Jackson, I think it ought to be mandantory that they give us fair warning so that old geezers, such as myself, can get focused, get our glasses, etc so that we don't miss it. I watched the half time show, not very diligently because that was not the type of music I particularly enjoy, and missed the exposed breast which was covered up much too quickly for my liking. Dag nab it!!! Oh well, SWMBO said she'd flash me if I like. Naturally, I took her up on it.

Wolf

[John Miliunas]

Wolf, I sincerely don't mean to start a "flame" war here, but with all due respect, there's a time and place for such nonsense and THAT, my fine woodworking compadre, was neither, the time nor the place. I was fortunate in that, I used my time watching the instructional video for my VacuPress. (Oh, congrats to the Pats fans, BTW!) At any rate, I understand the show was produced by MTV. Not surprising to have included such a stunt, but much more appropriate on *their* own channel, at such a viewing time that most kids are in bed (Oh, say....maybe....one or two in the morning!). In many homes, the Big Game, in particular, the half-time program, is more of a "family" thing. It's not just for a bunch of guys sitting down at the local watering hole. I missed it and didn't even hear about it until the ride into work this morning and, personally, I'm glad that neither, I nor my family were tuned in! Just MHO..... :cool:

[Waymon Campbell]

John, buddy, I have to say I agree with you totally. What has happened to the morals in this country? Do these entertainers understand what they are teaching our youngsters? These impressionable kids and young adults look up to these people. Sheesh...glad I missed it too.

Waymon...

[Mark Singer]

They were obviously after publicity and it is a cheap stunt. It shows you how low the quality of entertainment has become to rely on such stunts. I don't think she should get away with it because it will only lead to more and even worse incidents. There are places we can find all the trash we want...if we want it...don't force us to see it on a family viewed spectacle like the SuperBowl... Pretty soon the game itself will be secondary

[Terry Quiram]

I for one would like to see ALL the half time crap stopped. I mean holy cow, a 4 hour football game.

[Dennis Peacock]

I for one would like to see ALL the half time crap stopped. I mean holy cow, a 4 hour football game.

Amen!!! I hear ya singin' and I know the tune..!!!!

[Joe Tonich]

Fortunately my sons were in bed when it happened. :) Unfortunately they were still up when the news flashed the UNcensored clips (4 or 5 times in a row, can't remember exactly how many for sure, but a lot.) during the evening news hr. :( I try to control what programs they watch but never figured the news needs to be one of them. You should hear the Q's they ask. Sometimes I think they ENJOY watching ol' Dad get flustered trying to answer them! :eek:

Joe

[Dan Bussiere]

Although I am as outraged as anyone else, I am not surprised. In keeping with the terms of service here I won't get into my beliefs, but I will say expect things to get much worse before they get any better.

Dan

[Chris Padilla]

Enjoyed the game but was in the garage painting during halftime show...didn't hear about it until the next day at work!

It is unfortunate but we are hearing more and more colorful language all the time and seeing more and more skin all the time.

I think the 'regular 3...I mean 4' are trying to stretch everything they can to compete with cable. Look at the popularity of The Sopranos or Sex in the City....

Just do your best as a parent but you can't shelter your children from everything you'd like to unfortunately....

[John Miliunas]

Chris, you're absolutely right that we simply *can't* shelter our children from *everything*, nor do I intend to. It's all a part of growing up, learning about life and choices. I can try to influence them into making the "right" choices and educate them as best I can. But, when a National broadcast of major proportions is *ramming* this crap down their throat, I sincerely believe it's just over the edge! If I were one of the multi-billion $$ sponsors of that event, spending 2+ mil for a 30 second commercial spot and this is what I helped pay for, I would go directly to the NFL and simply tell them they should start looking for a different sponsor for next year *right now*! Just MHO.... Stepping down off the soapbox.... :cool:

[Bill Grumbine]

This event was just one more low mark on the voyage towards decadence in our society. I am not even surprised by the stuff that happens on TV anymore, which is why we watch very little of it. It was calculated, and I would not be surprised to hear that the "apologies" were choreographed in advance as well. And as far as apologies go, Mr. Timberlake has a future in politics with his, I regret the "wardrobe malfunction". I guess he was surprised that when he grabs and pulls on something held on by snaps it comes off, huh? He is not even man enough to say, I did it and I was wrong for doing it. The very wording of his "apology" was designed to consign it to the bin of nonresponsibility. :mad:

Bill

[Bill Grumbine]

Just do your best as a parent but you can't shelter your children from everything you'd like to unfortunately....

Hi Chris

I don't think this is an issue of trying to shelter children, but more an issue of depraved people trying to force their values system on the rest of us. When we go certain places or watch certain things, we should have a reasonable expectation of what we are going to see. If this were the Playboy channel, no one would have a right to complain. But it isn't the Playboy channel we are talking about, we are talking about a major network billing itself as family entertainment.

We homeschool our children, as because of that, we are often accused of sheltering our children from real life. Nothing could be further from the truth. They know a lot about what the world is like because they need to know in order to survive in it. But knowing about something and participating in it either actively or vicariously, are two completely different things. We all know that skunks stink, but how many of us feel the need to wallow in the road with one to experience the smell to its fullest?

Bill

[John Miliunas]

We all know that skunks stink, but how many of us feel the need to wallow in the road with one to experience the smell to its fullest?



Me thinks they HAD a few skunks on that stage last Sunday! Hrmph...It would've served them right to have a few of the four-legged kind, as well. Now THAT would've made for some interesting viewing! :D :cool:

[Chris Padilla]

But it isn't the Playboy channel we are talking about, we are talking about a major network billing itself as family entertainment.

Hello Bill!

True, but look where the networks have gone as time draws on. They are trying more and more to get on par with cable, their chief competition. We hear words on regular TV that used to not be said, we are seeing a lack of clothing from both men and women where they used to be clothed, we are seeing adult situations more revealing and more highly suggestive. These major networks may bill themselves as family entertainment but c'mon! At least you pretty much know which shows on these networks contain the above situations I mentioned but for them to pull one on us at the Super Bowl for God's sake...that is pretty bad and some heads should roll.

All I am saying is that we can teach our children to the best of our ability and hope that when they come upon these situations, they understand them or understand enough to question them and inquire...hopefully the way we intend!

[Wolf Kiessling]

I guess my crude attempt at humor with the Super Bowl halftime activity observations ruffled a couple of feathers and that was NOT AT ALL my intention.

Still, I will maintain that I was not offended by the Jackson/Timberlake stunt, would not have been even if I had actually seen it, and am rather surprised that no one has commented on something that I thought actually was offensive, at least IMHO. That commercial where the horse blew gas into that lady's face, THAT I thought was offensive.

Back to small time nudity on network television, again IMO, one brief, bare breast by a good looking young lady is not nearly as offensive as fairly long, drawn out scenes of bare posterior ends, particularly of old, fat actors such as Dennis Franz, as is very often the case on NYPD Blue. I don't think that is entertaining, tasteful, necessary to the story line or anything else. There is a lot of other stuff that offends me on network TV but that is a whole other story.

Wolf

[Glenn Clabo]

What bothers me the most is that nobody noticed that a "man" ripped a part of a "womans" clothing off in public...in front of "boys" who are going to grow up thinking it's okay to abuse women. Enough!

[Chris Padilla]

Wolf,

No harm done in my eyes--one can never predict what may happen to a thread. At least on NYPD Blue you *expect* to see things like that (a la The Playboy Channel) but in the Super Bowl of all places...not the time, not the place, and certainly parents didn't get ANY warnings of such things. THAT is the main problem, in my eyes.

I recall that horse's flatulence and while I will admit I cracked a smile, I did think it was in pretty poor taste. I don't even recall what the ad was for....

[Ed Falis]

Sometimes I think they ENJOY watching ol' Dad get flustered trying to answer them! :eek:

Joe

Get used to it, Boss!

I missed it, but I don't think it's the end of the world. Who knows, it may even have been an accident like the guy said. Kids are exposed to a lot more than I was as a kid (born early 50's) - and I don't think I was particularly sheltered. Your values and how you live them are going to mean a lot more to them than anything they see on TV.

- Ed

[Ed Falis]

... But it isn't the Playboy channel we are talking about, we are talking about a major network billing itself as family entertainment.
Bill

Yabbut, Bill,

It _is_ network TV. My kids stopped seeing it much turned on back in the late 80's. There's just a whole lot of programming (of the viewer) going on there. And from what I know of you, that programming doesn't fit you and your family's values much more than it does mine - even without the gratuitous sex-tones (or the violence, or the fear-mongering) to raise the emotional tone of viewers.

The bowl was the first time TV was tuned to an antenna in my house since I moved here last may.

- Ed

[Dennis Peacock]

OK folks....let's not let this get out of hand. If this gets too much deaper into things, I will be forced to remove this thread altogether.

Let's keep it light here. Nobody's stomping on anybody here.

Wolf....your intentions were taken as light-hearted. Don't feel bad about your post.

Let's just lighten it up a little before things do get <b>out of hand!</b>

Your Friendly Forum Moderator......

[Chris Padilla]

Dennis,

Pardon me if I am out of line but I think this discussion is going quite well and that we are self-moderating ourselves and having a friendly conversation. Certainly, it has the propensity to spiral out of control (as does any post) but lets just be patient and wait it out. I enjoy hearing what others have to say on this topic...I am a young parent after all and like to learn from the older parents and grandparents. :)

[Bill Grumbine]

Hi Chris

You'll get no argument from me on any of this! We watch very little TV anymore, and a lot of it comes from reruns form years ago. We effectively turned the networks in May of '99 when we opted for satellite instead of cable. We still have to police the cable we watch. We like watching Star Trek together, but the ads on Spike TV are so juvenile it makes me want to barf, and there have been times where we have just turned the TV off so we are not assaulted by the indecency that is displayed. I see people get so excited about their new huge plasma TVs and home theaters and I think it is nothing more that garbage clearer and louder.

Bill

[Ed Falis]

OK folks....let's not let this get out of hand. .....

Whoops, sorry Boss. I did not have a problem with Wolf's humor, but you're right that these are the kinds of things that get people going.

- ed

[Bill Grumbine]

Yabbut, Bill,

It _is_ network TV.
- Ed

Hi Ed

I'm right there with you. As I mentioned to Chris, we axed network TV completely in '99 when we switched to satellite. Even before that we virtually never turned a network show on. Here's a true story. One night shortly after we got our satellite dish and box, I got a call from Direct TV. The guy on the other end of the phone told me he "noticed" that we had not subscribed to the local channel package, and that for only $5.99 a month, we could enjoy all the network channels via our satellite dish. I said:

"That would be like paying someone to bring garbage to my house."

There was dead silence on the other end for a few seconds, and then he said in a very tenative voice, "Well, yeah... I guess that means you don't want it, huh?"

"That's right buddy. Thanks and don't call me, I'll call you."

They never called again.

Bill

[Dennis Peacock]

Whoops, sorry Boss. I did not have a problem with Wolf's humor, but you're right that these are the kinds of things that get people going.

- ed

Hey Ed....

Not a problem....It is just my job to try and keep things in line BEFORE they get a little out of hand. ;)

I have no problem with letting the thread continue...as long as things stay in control and everyone here continues to "watch themselves" and mind what they post......this thread will stand as active.

This is not a threat.....just doing what I am supposed to do to best keep things in line with the "community spirit".

[Ed Falis]

Hey Ed....

Not a problem....

This is not a threat.....just doing what I am supposed to do to best keep things in line with the "community spirit".

Did not take it that way - just trying to be a good citizen. We do have our fair share of good citizens here.

- Ed

[Tyler Howell]

Folks,

I was out looking at my buddy’s new Incra fence when the whole incident took place. Didn't miss anything in my opinion and no opinion on the networks.
What I would like to comment on is a persons right to choose. You have a remote and a delete button. You make decisions for you and your family.

If the info on finishing received at SMC doesn't pull your trigger, there is a bunch more wood webs out there.

OFF is one of my favorite buttons on the tube.

.
What really makes it great is a country that has choices.

;)

[Keith Outten]

Tyler,

I agree with you concerning the right to choose and I thought that is just what millions of us did when we watched the Super Bowl. Traditionally the Super Bowl is a sporting event with half-time entertainment that has not included mature content :)

Forty years ago the networks would have had anyone who pulled a stunt like this banned from the entertainment business. Today this kind of thing just makes them more money!

The public is to blame, it seems we are either too lazy to protest or we just don't care anymore.

[Chris Padilla]

The public is to blame, it seems we are either too lazy to protest or we just don't care anymore.

Perhaps we have more choices now, Keith.

[Chuck Wintle]

What amazes me is the publicity Janet Jackson has had over this, negative and otherwise. For sure it will go down in history as a memorable Super Bowl,where long after the teams and score is forgotten, we will remember Janet and her infamous stunt. It seems both Michael and Janet are capable of outrageousness. Do they mirror society? I say yes because we all exist on a slippery slope of what constitutes good moral behaviour.

[Lee Schierer]

I also was offended by the crude nature of several of the commercials. However, I chose to air my complaint at the CBS wesite where it really belongs. www.cbs.com. Down at the bottom of the page they have a button for feedback. I gave them mine, have you??

[John Miliunas]

I also was offended by the crude nature of several of the commercials. However, I chose to air my complaint at the CBS wesite where it really belongs. www.cbs.com. Down at the bottom of the page they have a button for feedback. I gave them mine, have you??

Lee, good idea! Just went there and did just that! Thanks. :cool:

[Chris Padilla]

What amazes me is the publicity Janet Jackson has had over this, negative and otherwise. For sure it will go down in history as a memorable Super Bowl,where long after the teams and score is forgotten, we will remember Janet and her infamous stunt. It seems both Michael and Janet are capable of outrageousness. Do they mirror society? I say yes because we all exist on a slippery slope of what constitutes good moral behaviour.


New England Patriots 32
Carolina Panthers 29

Adam Vinetieri boots a ~30 yarder with 5 ticks left in the game. He quickly makes up for 2 shanks earlier in the game while Carolina's kicker on the last kick-off of the game shanks it and hands the ball (and the game) to the Patriots on the 40 yard line.

It was 26 minutes of ho-hum shutout ball and 34 mintues of a shootout at the ok corral to the tune of 61 points.

That about do it? Oh, yeah, and there was 15 minutes of mostly naked singers and dancers.

;)

[Tyler Howell]

Charles, I thought the slippery slope was becoming a wood turner, making super bowls , and indulging in that type of moral behavior.

[Pete Lamberty]

Maybe many of you were thinking what I am about to say but you just didn't write it out. In my eyes the whole thing comes down to objectifying women and allowing sexually explicit styles (I'll bet the sale of "breast decorations" sky rockets in the next few weeks) and images into mainstream Americana. This is just one more step to our society, or a large part of it, seeing women as mere objects. Jackson will say she had no intent of that. She just wants attention and money, (she probably won't even admit to that.) But she and we have to realize that our actions may mean something different to those who see our actions. As I look back over the years, I am now 51, I can see how greatly the morals of our society have changed. It is a rather insidious movement. It occurs very slowly like the movement of a glacier. Its almost imperceptable and it can't be stopped. If I look at it from week to week I see no change at all. But when I think of how morals have changed from 30 years ago, I see big changes. There was an immediate backlash to Jacksons act. But I see something that is just as bad, maybe even worse, happening in all of our neighborhoods. For example, how many of you have daughters? (I have no children.) Do you allow them to wear those low style pants and high tops? The style that allows for a bare midriff. What do you think the teenage boys feel when they see this? Or the older guys. You may have thought that your daughters look cute, what do you think the guys are thinking? What will this style lead to, even less clothing? Many times, I have heard women say that women should be able to wear whatever they want. I don't think so. not if it teases someone else. There are many other similiar examples of very small things, things that we don't even notice. It happens so slow. I just wonder what the young women will be wearing fifty years from now. Nothing? Did you know that the new "thing" for young girls to do is to practice/pretend to pole dance? Where do you think that idea came from? In the end, if the moral people do nothing then the immoral people will do what they want with our society. And your children won't have a chance. I don't know the answer to this, but I don't feel that raising your own children to be good adults is enough. Your children will then have to deal with an ever more immoral society to raise their children. Remember, I don't have children so I don't know how hard it is to raise them. I don't know what to do, but I do feel that we "moral" people should somehow do more. We should reach out to others or make our thoughts known. If we don't fix it your children will be stuck with it. Just a few of my thoughts. Pete

[John Miliunas]

Well spoken, Pete. Sadly, and like others have iterated to this notion, it's really become a reflection of our society today. And I say "reflection", because as such, it's not necessarily as it is, but just looks that way. By and large, I still think that people with good and upstanding morals are the majority, but at the same time, I think that ratio may be dropping, as well. :cool:

[Dennis Peacock]

Pete has spoken very well what I have felt for a long time now. It is sad that the few money hungry organizations/buisnesses in the "adult entertainment" world have so much impact on the media. It's almost like the media is "asking" for that kind of stuff because a lot of people in America are passive in nature. Unless "feet" are put with those words, nothing ever takes place or gets done. I can talk about woodworking several hours each day and yet I can then turn around and complain that I don't get any furniture made. My own fault.

It is my assigned duty to raise my kids as best I know how and to educate them about "life" as they grow older so that they won't go nuts when they get out on their own. Shoot, I went from farming to working and going to school and then into the military. I didn't have time to "sew my wild oats".

[Chuck Wintle]

Charles, I thought the slippery slope was becoming a wood turner, making super bowls , and indulging in that type of moral behavior.
I say slippery slope because we like to consider our society(North American) as open and tolerant of most behaviour yet pop stars like Britney Spears etc set the example for young girls and she is clearly not a good role model. Yet she continues to flaunt herself. Clearly Janet and Justin's stunt was stupid but what about the others who are much worse?

[Dave Avery]

Guy,

Gotta say that while the Jackson thing was a pathetic attempt at self-promotion, a reflection of changed morals and values in our society, and entirely inappropriate in a family oriented show, I wish you guys were equally (or more than equally) outraged at the level of violence on TV these days.

8:00pm shows, with little or no warning, show people getting blown away and physically or otherwise abused on a regular basis with little or no warning. Acceptance and tolerance of this type of programming is at least as harmful in terms of impact on society than the odd breast being shown at an inappropriate time. While there are many other valid reasons why we live in an extremely violent society, the insensitivity caused by repeated viewing on TV is, in my opinion, at least a significant contributor.

[John Miliunas]

Dave, while I agree with you that the content on "regular" TV, even during prime time, has gotten out of hand, there still remains some big differences. For one, if you tune into one of the popular crime drama's, you can pretty much expect it. If you turn on ER, you're going to see some very realistic looking medical procedures (blood & guts, literally!). You expect it. That said, you have more "control" over what you're watching. And, we as parents, have the opportunity to reiterate to our children that these are indeed drama's and only stories, not the real deal. True, there still may remain a certain amount of it which enables the viewers to get somewhat desensitized to some of the violent acts. On the other hand, at least when I turn on a nationally televised *sporting event*, I certainly don't expect to see what was broadcast last Sunday! That IS telling young people out there, that this IS the real deal and it's OK. I already watch a minimal amount of TV and that's usually TLC or Discovery. I hate to think that I'm going to have to give up watching my ball games, too! :cool:

[Jason Roehl]

I guess I need to chip in my two cents here. I think there is one misconception prevalent in this discussion--the idea that the Super Bowl is/was a "family-oriented" event. Having watched many more hours of football this past fall than I care to admit, I can assure you that a stunt such as Ms. Jackson's is no surprise. Throughout the regular season we are bombarded with beer (if you can call it that) commercials featuring scantily-clad women. Perhaps you recall the blitz of Coors Light commercials starring "The Twins"--as part of the whole sports experience? In addition, what "cheers" are really being led by the so-called cheerleaders? They are also often under-dressed and prancing around suggestively.

So, to think that the culminatory event of the NFL would be any different is extremely naive, whether MTV produced the halftime show or not. And, considering the estimated worldwide audience of one billion, America should be red in the face. Unless folks diligently call or write as has already been suggested here, expect future events to consistently chip away at the moral underpinnings of our society and revel in their "shock value."

[Tyler Howell]

Jason,
I agree. Football is not geared to the family. As hard as it is to believe US TV is very mild compared to the tube in other parts of the world. Nudity, adult content, and violence are far more explicit in South America, Italy, and London.

Just to restate. You have a choice.

[Dennis Peacock]

With everything that has been said and after I said my piece.....

<b>All the above is exactly why we watch so "little" TV any more!!</b> I have satellite TV because it is cheaper than Cable. All in all......the "tube" stays off a LOT more than it is ever own. I watch it with the "family" on Sunday nights (family time) and that is all of the TV I watch...period....end of story.

[Chris Padilla]

I still love my cable but I find my wife and I watching HGTV, The Discovery Channel, and The Learning Channel A LOT! A & E gets some attention, too. I also find myself wandering over to Spike to watch Star Trek, too.

Notice that I watch very little regular TV?? Only on Sundays do I have one of the networks in order to catch the NFL (MNF is ABC, of course). No halftime shows there to worry about! :) Too bad the NFL package is so expensive on satellite or I might just head there.

I also recently dumped all my premium movie channels because they never had anything good on. Money saved from that is going to Netflix, which we like a lot. Nothing like being able to pick your own movies and they have 10s of thousands of selections. We can watch them when the kid is in bed at our leisure.

[Pete Lamberty]

You know, we really don't have a choice. Sure we can turn the t.v. off when somethng offends us. Or buy cable and not watch the regular channels. But most people don't. And the problem with that is the loose morals that t.v. inspires, permeates through our society. You may have turned off the t.v. but you will be affected by what it does to the people around you. How people act and how they think about themselves. And we can't turn this off. You may have turned off the t.v. after half time so your daughter knows that you disapprove. But when she goes to school and talks to the other girls her age, she may get the idea that women are here for mens pleasure. If the young females that she associates with think that they are sex toys, she will to. It will take some mighty strong supportive parents to keep her from thinking that. It is impossible to turn off what the kids talk about. And peer pressure is a very strong influence on children. They have a real strong tendence to try to fit in. And the opposite is just as true. What do the boys thnk of the females? They may not want to go out with a girl if she doesn't perform certain acts. If she isn't getting attention from the guys, she may well decide to loosen her morals. Although this is what I see. I have no idea how to fix it. I can't tell everyone how to behave.

[Chris Padilla]

Pete,

Don't get too down...the good ole US of A isn't all that bad. Just read a few threads on the Freedom Pen that SMC is sponsoring. You'll gush with pride...there's hope! :)

[Dave Avery]

I have no idea how to fix it. I can't tell everyone how to behave.

Pete,

While the rest of your post is spot on, the last 2 sentences are telling. People vote with their feet - what's on TV is what people want to be on TV.... right, wrong, or indifferent. And while you can set an example for better behavior, you can't force people to do what they don't want to do.

[Brad Schafer]

i've mightily resisted the urge to comment - till now.

apart from the occasional sporting event, i don't watch TV. it's a colossal waste of precious time. watch 2 hours a day? in a normal year, that's one whole month (over 30 days) sitting in front of a tube. better to make sawdust.

pay $50/month for cable or satellite? that's $600. buys a lathe, nice accessories, and a lot of pen kits.

when i do watch sports and a commercial comes on, i go to blank screen (AV "channel") for 60-120 secs depending on type of break. the popular entertainment industry substituted the crass and profane for creativity long ago.

i'm glad i didn't see halftime of the SB, but i'm glad it happened. maybe people will wake up.

not a very humble opinion, but there it is.


b

[Ian Barley]

As Tyler has commented, British TV is a bit more "permissive" than the US networks. That does not mean that anything goes but we have a 9:00pm watershed after which parents are aware and advised that the programming may ocassionally reflect more adult themes.

I didn't watch the superbowl but have seen some coverage of the event in question. To me the main problem is that this was not particularly the type of display that would be expected in an event of this nature. But, it is also fair to say that the cheerleaders of each respective team were probably not wearing raincoats.

I am fully aware that I do not live day to day in the same society as most of you guys but I do visit the US about once a year on average and have to say that my experience is that there is more similarity than difference. The similarity is that most people I meet, whatever age, are reasonably civil and polite. I actually find that on average Americans are more helpful to strangers and visitors. I suspect that this, admittedly very anecdotal evidence does not indicate a society is steep decline.

Regards TV - most of it is rubbish. Anybody who doesn't edit and filter what they see on TV has a problem. Would I watch most of what streams out of the box? No. Have I learned interesting things and new ideas from it? Yes. The history of almost every communication medium shows that its early development was linked to "adult" entertainment. Some of the earliest moving pictures made were pornographic in nature and the internet is just the most recent example of the phenomenon. TV has escaped pretty lightly in this respect.

One last thought. Each generation in history, from the start of recorded time, has regarded the age in which it lives as in some way deficient or declining in moral standards. The great greek philosophers spent much time decrying the immorality of youth. Victorian England was appled by the violence and lewdness of the working classes. I suspect that we are no different in that respect.

I think it is a great shame that an event like this can be allowed to create a disturbance in anybody's peaceful enjoyment of their home.

I suspect that from the point of view of these two rather shallow individuals, and those around them, the indignation of mature adults was exactly what they were seeking as a way to endear them to the immature audience that they seek.

[John Miliunas]

I think it is a great shame that an event like this can be allowed to create a disturbance in anybody's peaceful enjoyment of their home.

I suspect that from the point of view of these two rather shallow individuals, and those around them, the indignation of mature adults was exactly what they were seeking as a way to endear them to the immature audience that they seek.

Ian, I think these last two paragraphs have the entire topic covered pretty thoroughly. Well said! :cool:

[Chris Padilla]

Some of the earliest moving pictures made were pornographic in nature and the internet is just the most recent example of the phenomenon. TV has escaped pretty lightly in this respect.

Perhaps this is just fodder ripping through the ether of the internet but I have often heard that pornography spurred a lot in the video-at-home industry: VHS, Cable, DVDs, Home Theater, the internet, etc. Let's face it, it is a multi-billion dollar business...someone is forking out money.


One last thought. Each generation in history, from the start of recorded time, has regarded the age in which it lives as in some way deficient or declining in moral standards. The great greek philosophers spent much time decrying the immorality of youth. Victorian England was appled by the violence and lewdness of the working classes. I suspect that we are no different in that respect.

Very well said and I agree completely. There is nothing wrong with being disillusioned at times but overall, I think society is generally good and generally moral. Everybody has different experiences and thus view the world the way they wish...that is just being human.