Griz G0490 Jointer - Are PARALLEL beds easier on-off?

[Tom Overthere]

I'm considering purchase of a Grizzly 0490 jointer.

I work alone and weight is always a SERIOUS concern - especially as it pertains to installing and eventually moving the machine. By "moving", I mean moving my entire shop to a new location in about a year.

MY QUESTION:
By any chance, is it easier to remove and re-install the parallel beds than it would be with older-style dovetailed beds? I expect to single-handedly prep this thing for a future truckride, so are the parallel beds any easier to handle?

Thanks,
Tom

[Mike Spanbauer]

First, why? Are you currently located in a basement shop that would require disassembly to get it into the truck?

I would recommend avoiding disassembly if at all possible. Dovetail units are actually fairly straight forward... however, the bed wedges are HEAVY. Talking, upwards of 120-150lbs of a small chunk of heavy iron. I rebuilt my PM60, which only has 34" beds on each side and that required disassembling down to the ways for cleaning / filing... I did this myself and it wasn't simple. @6'3" 220, I can throw around a fair chunk of weight, and it wasn't easy as there are no handles.

So, if you must diassemble, I'd recommend a DT way unit vs. a parallel. But, I would stress avoiding disassembly if at all possible :)

mike

[keith ouellette]

I have assembled both types and currently have a paralel bed which I highly recomend for many reasons. I the case of moving them; the beds are hooked onto the cabinet/stand in the same way no matter what type you have unless you are going to break the table in two seperate pieces ( infeed and out feed side) which I wouldn't recomend. The table of my 8in griz. paralel did seem a little lighter than my wilke dovetail. The parrale tables are much easier to adjust for paralel as far as the table goes.

[Rick Lizek]

I'm considering purchase of a Grizzly 0490 jointer.

I work alone and weight is always a SERIOUS concern - especially as it pertains to installing and eventually moving the machine. By "moving", I mean moving my entire shop to a new location in about a year.

MY QUESTION:
By any chance, is it easier to remove and re-install the parallel beds than it would be with older-style dovetailed beds? I expect to single-handedly prep this thing for a future truckride, so are the parallel beds any easier to handle?

Thanks,
Tom

Parallelogram beds are much more complicated to remove and reinstall. Plus you would need a machined straight edge and feeler gauge and dial indicator to line it all up again. Dovetailed ways are simple to remove and reinstall. I worked as an Independent Delta tech and did a few table changes of parallelogarm tables. The toughest one was on a 16" SCMI jointer that got damaged in shipping. A couple of the internal brackets got broken and the infeed table had to be removed and the brackets replaced.

[keith ouellette]

Tom; are you planning to dissasemble the beds into two seperate haves or just remove both beds from the stand as one long piece?

[Eric Gustafson]

Have you considered getting one of those shop cranes that Harbor Freight sells? They have a 1 and 2 ton version. If you used one of those you would not have to dissemble your jointer. The 2 ton one goes for $200 when not on sale. Get it on sale and you would have a great deal.

[Tom Overthere]

Thanks for the replies.

ANSWERS TO YOUR QUESTIONS:

a) I want to be able to remove the beds because I FEAR delivery and setup of 600lbs of steel measuring over six feet in length (like wrestling a shark...). And later horsing it up a ramp onto a standard rental moving truck makes me shudder.

b) In front of my overhead door is a rain gutter formed into the concrete - with a crappy grate over it. When moving heavy machines, the gutter takes on all the characteristics of a MOAT - a constant impediment and potential destroyer of machines (and limbs).

c) I want to remove each bed from the central casting SEPARATELY, to lighten the weight and reduce the size of the machine. So far, it sounds like traditional dovetail beds are much easier to remove/reinstall. Is that still the consensus?

d) I built a wooden "gantry crane" (beam supported by a leg at each end) and hung a 2-ton chain hoist from it. I back my trailer in under it, loop a chain around the machine and lift it. Then I drive the trailer out from under the swinging machine, and lower the machine to the floor. So far, so good...

MORE QUESTIONS:

1) Do both Grizzly 8" jointers (0490 parallel and 0586 dovetail) arrive fully assembled? Must be a hell of a crate...

2) Would you guys buy the older 0586 dovetail jointer? Considering all the advantages of the 0490, are there any good reasons to consider the older design (other than the relative ease of removing/installing the beds)?

3) I notice the rabbeting ledge is ommited from the 0490? How come? Is that why the bed width is only 8" rather than 9.25" as on the 0586?

Thanks,
Tom

[Steve Milito]

Thanks for the replies.

ANSWERS TO YOUR QUESTIONS:

a) I want to be able to remove the beds because I FEAR delivery and setup of 600lbs of steel measuring over six feet in length (like wrestling a shark...). And later horsing it up a ramp onto a standard rental moving truck makes me shudder.



You'd want to use a fork lift.




b) In front of my overhead door is a rain gutter formed into the concrete - with a crappy grate over it. When moving heavy machines, the gutter takes on all the characteristics of a MOAT - a constant impediment and potential destroyer of machines (and limbs).


You'd want to reinforce the crappy grate.




d) I built a wooden "gantry crane" (beam supported by a leg at each end) and hung a 2-ton chain hoist from it. I back my trailer in under it, loop a chain around the machine and lift it. Then I drive the trailer out from under the swinging machine, and lower the machine to the floor. So far, so good...

I use multiple hoist straps. The machine should be hoisted high enough that it does not drag. I pull up the truck up less than a foot, get out, inspect, and repeat. I really don't like to see the machine swinging. I also immediately stop any sway, and lower the machine to the floor. Many times I'll leave it strapped up resting on the floor, and later raise it a few inches to drop it on a mobile base.



MORE QUESTIONS:

1) Do both Grizzly 8" jointers (0490 parallel and 0586 dovetail) arrive fully assembled? Must be a hell of a crate...


My Griz 12" parallel jointer was fully assembled in a huge crate.



2) Would you guys buy the older 0586 dovetail jointer? Considering all the advantages of the 0490, are there any good reasons to consider the older design (other than the relative ease of removing/installing the beds)?

I really like my parallel jointer. It was dead on out of box.


3) I notice the rabbeting ledge is ommited from the 0490? How come? Is that why the bed width is only 8" rather than 9.25" as on the 0586?

There a dozen ways to do rabbets. Using the jointer would be the last, and (IMHO) most dangerous method.

[Warren Clemans]

I've had the beds off of my grizzly 8" jointer several times, and I confirm that it's fairly easy to do. If you're looking at a used machine, inspect it thoroughly! Mine has tables that are badly out of plane. I've had to shim them in order to get a decent cut. I discovered a bunch of pitting on one side of the machined ways on the infeed side. It was a defect in the casting that was revealed only after taking the infeed table off. I know lots of people on this board love grizzly tools, but I'll never buy another one.

[Warren Clemans]

First, why? Are you currently located in a basement shop that would require disassembly to get it into the truck?

I would recommend avoiding disassembly if at all possible. Dovetail units are actually fairly straight forward... however, the bed wedges are HEAVY. Talking, upwards of 120-150lbs of a small chunk of heavy iron. I rebuilt my PM60, which only has 34" beds on each side and that required disassembling down to the ways for cleaning / filing... I did this myself and it wasn't simple. @6'3" 220, I can throw around a fair chunk of weight, and it wasn't easy as there are no handles.

So, if you must diassemble, I'd recommend a DT way unit vs. a parallel. But, I would stress avoiding disassembly if at all possible :)

mike
Mike, when you say that you filed the ways, were you adjusting the angle of the beds, or just cleaning up gunk? I'm curious to know whether it's possible to make permanent adjustments to the beds by filing the ways. I would think that would be extremely difficult to do properly.

[Mike Spanbauer]

It was removing burrs and other minor damage acquired over the previous 30 years of life. My green PM60 is a 60's vintage (Green w/ White stripe) and I had to do a full rehab to it.

It does have brass shim stock as well to bring everything back into perfect alignment, but it is solid as a rock and oh so simple to adjust :)

John White from FWW did a VERY good piece on jointer tuning some time back (7-10 years) on one of the jointers in the FWW shop. This is in video form and relatively easy to get ahold of. The jointer he did the work to is in fact the exact same unit as mine, including paint and all.

In it he demonstrates cleaning the ways with a fine toothed file to ensure the ways are very smooth prior to lubrication which allows the beds to slide smoothly.

So, I didn't file the ways to make permanent adjustments, but rather to improve the sliding mechanism. I could have epoxied the shims I guess, but considering that the machine will eventually (another 2-5 years) require another tuning like this due to heavy use I prefer to keep it removable :)

Cheers,

mike

[Warren Clemans]

Very helpful--thanks.

[Don Bullock]

Tom,

Either machine will do the job.


...
MORE QUESTIONS:

1) Do both Grizzly 8" jointers (0490 parallel and 0586 dovetail) arrive fully assembled? Must be a hell of a crate...

The G0490 base is fully assembled in a cardboard box. This is a fantastic feature. If you've ever had to assemble other bases it's a feature you'll appreciate Grizzly for saving you a lot of time and frustration. The rest is in two pieces, the jointer with beds attached and the fence.




2) Would you guys buy the older 0586 dovetail jointer? Considering all the advantages of the 0490, are there any good reasons to consider the older design (other than the relative ease of removing/installing the beds)?

I don't plan to remove the beds so this isn't an issue for me. I really don't see any reason for them to be removed. It seems that it would be more trouble than it's worth.

As for moving the jointer, the G0490 comes with a built in set of wheels that make it very easy to move. I was surprised at how easy it is to move all that weight around the shop. Like all jointers, however, it is quite top heavy. I'm planning for a shop move in the next two years. I don't think it will be difficult getting the G0490 up the ramp of my friend's trailer.




3) I notice the rabbeting ledge is ommited from the 0490? How come? Is that why the bed width is only 8" rather than 9.25" as on the 0586?

It seems to me that I read something in the manual about setting the G0490 up for rabbets. I'd use the table saw or router before I'd use the jointer for a rabbet.

[keith ouellette]

[QUOTE=Tom Overthere;665927]Thanks for the replies.

ANSWERS TO YOUR QUESTIONS:

a) I want to be able to remove the beds because I FEAR delivery and setup of 600lbs of steel measuring over six feet in length (like wrestling a shark...). And later horsing it up a ramp onto a standard rental moving truck makes me

c) I want to remove each bed from the central casting SEPARATELY, to lighten the weight and reduce the size of the machine. So far, it sounds like traditional dovetail beds are much easier to remove/reinstall. Is that still

1) Do both Grizzly 8" jointers (0490 parallel and 0586 dovetail) arrive fully assembled? Must be a hell of a crate...

2) Would you guys buy the older 0586 dovetail jointer? Considering all the advantages of the 0490, are there any good reasons to consider the older design (other than the relative ease of removing/installing the

The bed comes fully assembled in one long crate and the base in another. I don't think the bed is quite 600lbs but it is still heavy. While it is in the crate the base of the beds are attatched to the bottom of the crate and I was able to easily pick up the crate on end and wheel it out to my shop 150ft away. Because it was attached to the crate at the base of the bed this put no stress on the table thought you would not want to ship it on end as apposed to lying flat. To move it out of your shop I would re crate the bed and sled it up the stairs with the bed in one piece but thats me. As to the question of which jointer to buy... the paralel design leaves more room to fine tune the jointer and the more dovetail ways slide against one another the more they are worn. Adjustment would come from shims and not the eccentric rings of the paralel tabel. I've had both and like the paralel better.

[Tom Overthere]

Well fellas, based on your many helpful comments/insights, I guess it'll be the G0490 - and I'll likely never remove the beds (I hope...).

- Parallelagram bed adjustment is a great and obvious benefit

- The base and rollers are a real improvement over the older model

- As suggested above, removing the jointer (intact) from its base and rolling it on a low dolly should provide stability in loading onto a truck one day.

Thanks a lot for helping me make this decision.

Tom

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/misc/progress.gif

[Mike Spanbauer]

I don't think you'll go wrong w/ your choice Tom. Many have praised that machine as a solid value and good unit.

Of course, that new 12" they announced looks mighty sweet ;)

mike

[Don Bullock]

Tom, cocgratulations on making your choice. Please let us know how you like it.

Mike, the 12" does look nice, but SWMBO wouldn't like it at all, especially since I have the 8" G0490 because I said an 8" was highly recommended by the posters on the forums. She wouldn't believe me if I said everyone changed their minds.:rolleyes: :D

[Tom Overthere]

...of course, that new 12" they announced looks mighty sweet ;) mike

Considering the additional weight, and my "concerns" about it, I think I'd feel compelled to torch cut that monster into four quarters when moving time rolled around. :D

Yeah, it'll be the G0490 at most,
Thanks guys