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View Full Version : Could use some help selecting chisels



Andy Pratt
09-25-2007, 1:05 PM
I'm in the market for my first set of quality chisels and wanted to get some advice from the more experienced folks here before I dropped the money. I mostly will be using these for dovetails, as I've got a mortiser and a couple sets of beater chisels for mortising and brute force work. So, that being said, do I want to be buying a set specifically called "dovetail chisels" (see a lot of japanese sets labeled as such)? I don't see any practical difference between these and a standard set of bevel edge chisels, am I missing something? (referring only to their capabilities in use, not differences in sharpening).

Assuming bevel-edge is fine, I'm having trouble finding a lot of options. Basic criteria are: high quality, bevel-edge, socket-type handle. I've found LN and Barr, but I'm not finding any other makers, any recommendations?

Are skew chisels worth it? In the basic work I've done so far it seems like they would be, but I've never used one.

Hooped handles seem like a great idea but if that's a requirement it further limits my choice. What are the positives and negatives of hooped handles in all around/long term use? I realize they stand up better to a hammer, but are they more of a pain to use for pairing (hard on hands?), do well-made unhooped handles have a problem with cracking if used with a wooden mallet?

Lastly, and probably a stupid question, if you're not gluing the handle to the socket, do socket chisels ever slip off the handle or is friction good enough to tightly hold them? If a $50 chisel fell off it's handle and landed on my concrete floor I think I would want to break something.

Thanks for reading all the way through this, I'm looking forward to hearing what you guys have to say.

Andy

Barry Beech
09-25-2007, 1:24 PM
Why do you need a socket-type handle for dovetail chisels?

Like you said you really limit your choices with that.

Chisels that many people here have recommended are LN, blue spruce, and two cherries. I am sure there are more.

I have the two cherries and love them. Several people have said that two cherries are hard to flatten the back but I haven't experience that.

You really just need to try some out and just see what feels the best in your hand. I know that isn't easy. Personnally, I just bought the two cherries because of price but like I said have been very happy with them.

Bob Smalser
09-25-2007, 2:30 PM
I've tried most of them and the Ashey Iles are an excellent value.....including compared to the Barr's.

Socket handles do loosen during the dry season, and have to be tapped home. Because I often work on scaffolds with folks below, I epoxy mine in, as epoxy releases easily with a gentle amount of propane torch heat applied to the socket.

But most chisels these days except Barr's look like socket chisels but are really tang chisels with a bolster that looks like a socket.

Jim Nardi
09-25-2007, 3:06 PM
I have a set of LN's. No complaints at all. I did buy the 4 smallest sizes of japanese dovetail chisels from LV just for that job. Very easy on the fingers and seem to hold a edge for a real long time. I've only had them about a month now. Squew chisels you can make yourself buy up some cheap made in germany stanley 750 copies and grind the squew or Rob Cosman type chisel for dovetails.

Tony Zaffuto
09-25-2007, 3:25 PM
Andy,

I'm fortunate enough to be able to try (or own) different manufacturers of chisels, as well as most tools. I like having many different tools and styles of similar tools, but I also use many of them!

As far as chisels go, I have a large variety of vintage and modern makes. My likes are Stanley 750's, bevel-edge Witherby to name but a couple of vintage. For modern, I lean towards Ashely IIes, and particularly find the shorter, butt style to my liking. I also have the longer style AI, as well as several LN, Hirsch, Two Cherries, C.I. Falls (see a thread on this forum from last week), several different makes of Japanese and so forth.

Why so many? Well simply put, chisels are cheap! Of the modern chisels, I think that if you really try using the chisel to the point of sharpening several different times (to wear the edge back a bit or so), you'll find most have decent steel. Therefore, you'll need to assess the style of the chisel to determine if it fits your needs: do you want to do dovetails? Are you simply using the chisel to clean up a machined mortise? Or are you just going to use the chisel to clean up a glue joint?

Personally, I have settled on the butt style Ashely IIles, because the chisels fit my hand very nicely and offer me the control I desire. Also, as I'm rapidly passing through middle age, and my hands become a bit arthritic I find I'm sensitive to certain handle shapes, and the smallish AI just don't hurt!

In short, my advice is to try several different to see which feel right to you. Most woodworking forums have classified sections, so you can sell off those chisels you just don't want, and for usually close to what you paid.

As far as skew edge, I have a set of LN 3/8" that are just gorgeous to hold and use. However, you can just as easily grind your own skew from any chisel. I had a cheap set that I disposed of--they were 3/4" which was too large to be of much use to me, but worse, the maker made them from soft steel. His justification was a skew should be made soft, so they can be easily re-sharpened and as a skew is a bit harder to sharpen, make them soft to help! I've never had an issue with sharpening any tool, be it free-hand or sometimes using a jig. It's all holding your tongue right! Some days you really got it and sometimes, there are times you just ought to do something else!

In closing, I started in life as a carpenter, and left the trade some 18 years ago as my knees couldn't take the stress any longer. Since that time, I've been a hobbyist. Funny, though, as a hobbyist I pay more attention to the maker of the tool I buy but previously I paid attention only to the function. I still have those early tools, but have disposed of tools bought in the later category. Tools disposed of include some from the "boutique" category. Go for function and the beauty will follow!

T.Z.

Bart Leetch
09-25-2007, 3:28 PM
I'm in the market for my first set of quality chisels and wanted to get some advice from the more experienced folks here before I dropped the money. I mostly will be using these for dovetails, as I've got a mortiser and a couple sets of beater chisels for mortising and brute force work. So, that being said, do I want to be buying a set specifically called "dovetail chisels" (see a lot of japanese sets labeled as such)? I don't see any practical difference between these and a standard set of bevel edge chisels, am I missing something? (referring only to their capabilities in use, not differences in sharpening).

Assuming bevel-edge is fine, I'm having trouble finding a lot of options. Basic criteria are: high quality, bevel-edge, socket-type handle. I've found LN and Barr, but I'm not finding any other makers, any recommendations?

Are skew chisels worth it? In the basic work I've done so far it seems like they would be, but I've never used one.

Hooped handles seem like a great idea but if that's a requirement it further limits my choice. What are the positives and negatives of hooped handles in all around/long term use? I realize they stand up better to a hammer, but are they more of a pain to use for pairing (hard on hands?), do well-made unhooped handles have a problem with cracking if used with a wooden mallet?

Lastly, and probably a stupid question, if you're not gluing the handle to the socket, do socket chisels ever slip off the handle or is friction good enough to tightly hold them? If a $50 chisel fell off it's handle and landed on my concrete floor I think I would want to break something.

Thanks for reading all the way through this, I'm looking forward to hearing what you guys have to say.

Andy

Have you ever seen Frank Klaus dovetail drawers? After watching him other than a thin sharp back saw & a sharp chisel & a marking gage & a vice & hold downs & properly prepared wood I don't see any reason to sweat the small stuff. Other than the above mentioned tools (chisels that fit your hand) & material & technique, practice practice practice.

Mark Stutz
09-25-2007, 6:47 PM
Just wanted to stress the point of having them fit your hand. My Marples Blue chips work well but are too top heavy for dovetailing. I held the AI at the woodworking show, and they just did not feel right in my hand...I was really dissappointed since I had heard lots of good things and had planned to get them. Most of my vintage chisels have short thin handles that fit my hand much better.

Mark

Casey Gooding
09-25-2007, 7:10 PM
You can't go wrong with LN's. Blue Spruce makes some really nice dovetail chisels. Ashley Iles are very nice, as well.
Two Cherries have good steel but can be a pain to flatten the backs. Also, many people find the handles uncomfortable.

Peter Tremblay
09-25-2007, 10:02 PM
Well I think I will add my $.02 to the conversation. Personally, I can't overstate how much I like my Barr chisels. The steel is incredible and very fast to resharpen. They are the most expensive tools that I have (i'm a pure neanderthal) but I have never regretted getting them.

For me when I was thinking about getting a high end set of chisels I looked at LN's or the Barr and seeing the LN at the local WW store I was suprised at how small they were so it was an easy choice for me, between the two.

Peter

Andy Pratt
09-26-2007, 2:13 PM
Thanks for the help everyone, I appreciate you sharing your experiences. Sounds like chisel to hand fit is the most important thing so I'll probably try to go play around with a few different brands and then make a decision from there.

Bart, good to hear from you, hopefully I'll get a chance to come visit again sometime soon, it's looking like it's won't be before november though.

Andy

Hank Knight
09-26-2007, 3:41 PM
Andy,

I'll add my $.02 for what it's worth - probably not much but here goes:

I suffered from an acute case of chisel lust for a number of years and bought every chisel I could find. I managed to collect a bunch of Stanley 750s and Everlastings and a nice set of Witherby bevel edge chisels, not to mention a large assortment of miscellaneous others, including several Asley Isles. During my "chisel period" my wife gave me a set of Matsumura blue steel cabinetmakers chisels that she ordered through Japan Woodworker and which were delivered to her individually as they became available. I use and love them all, but the ones I use most are the Matsumuras. They are light, easy to handle, take an incredibly sharp edge and hold it and have relatively thin, very comfortable handles. When I want to hack something out, about anything will do, but when I want to do precise work, I reach for the Matsumuras. I'm not a Japanese tool/culture nut, but the Matsumura chisels are wonderful.

The cabinetmakers chisels are something of a compromise between a bench chisel that has a relatively thick edge and a dovetail chisel that has a triangular cross section and a sharp edge. The cabinetmakers chisels have a modified triangular cross section and are thinner than a bench chisel, but they don't come all the way down to a sharp triangular edge. They are very precise and I've not found that I needed a true triangular dovetail chisel for dovetails, the cabinetmakers chisels work just fine for dovetails. I do have a 1/8" one that I use to get into really tight places. I don't use the Matsumuras for heavy chopping (I don't consider cutting dovetails heavy chopping) nor do I do any prying with them. I have chipped other Japanese chisels using them harshly but I've never chipped one of the Matsumuras.

For paring, I use long bevel edged Witherbys. They are very good chisels for this task. For really heavy chopping, I use a Stanley Everlasting because they are truly almost indestructable and the steel in them is good. If you are looking for a contemporary chisel and are not interested in the Japanese style, I recommend the Asley Iles American Pattern. They are a little short for my taste, but I've found the ones I have easy to use and the steel is good. The London Pattern AIs are too big and bulky for me and the handles are large and uncomfortable (to me at least). I have used the Lie-Nielsens on occasion and they are O.K., particularly if you are a Stanley 750 fan, which I am not, and I don't care for the A2 steel in the LNs. I prefer a carbon steel that takes a keen edge and is easier to sharpen than the A2. I hone my chisels frequently as I work and I find a few swipes on the hone is preferable to the longer commitment necessary to bring the edge back up on an A2 blade.

As I said, this is just my $.02, FWIW. There is a pretty dizzying array of chisel styles and brands to choose from, but the ones I've mentioned above stand out from the rest in my experience. I found that my preferences changed over time as I used different chisels. It took a while, but I think I've settled on my choices. I suggest you buy one or two chisels of various kinds and makers and try them before you commit big bucks to purchasing a whole set. You will probably find that you like some and dislike others. Once you've settled on what you like, then take the punge and buy the set.

Good luck with your choice.

Hank