Wall Cabinet Joinery

[Jamie Smith]

Hi All-

I plan to build some wall cabinets for my garage/shop, and I have some questions about the joinery of them.

72475

Note that the sizes are approximate, right now I am only concerned about the joinery. I will be using 3/4" plywood ("sandeply" from borg) for the carcase and 1/4" hardboard for the back.

For the joinery, I plan to :
Route out rabbets in the sides for the top and bottom
Route out a rabbet in the bottom, and stopped rabbets in the sides, for the back.
attach a french cleat, leaving room between the back and cleat to accept the receiving cleat.Joints would be reinforced with glue and pocket holes.

Does this seem reasonable? Should I add another cleat to the bottom?

Sketchup also attached.

Thanks for any input!

-jamie

[Bob Hoffmann]

When I was working in a millwork shop, the wall cabinet's were built as follows -- and they were then laminated.

The sides and top were just but jointed with screws and glue. The back was put in a rabbit that was 3/4" in from the back and the back -- 1/4" -- was slid in from the top. cleat was put in behind the back and screwed into the top and also into the sides (which is a good idea if the cabinets and mounted with a frence cleat). Note that the top depth is 1" less then the bottom -- 3/4" cleat + 1/4" for the back.

Make sure that if you use rabbits on the sides, that they are no then 3/8", and could probably just have them 1/4" deep, since what is left is what will be holding the bottom on the cabinet. You shouldn't need a cleat on the bottom.

[Jamie Smith]

Thanks Bob-

This sounds considerably faster than what I was planning. I don't understand what you mean by "and they were then laminated".


When I was working in a millwork shop, the wall cabinet's were built as follows -- and they were then laminated.


Laminated with what?

[Alfred Clem]

About 15 years ago I started putting my garage shop together, using cabinets very similar to the ones you plan to make. I wish I had made mine of plywood, but those made of MDF have stood the test of time. They are quite heavy, as you can imagine. Used yellow glue and screws.

It's particularly important that the cleats you attach to the wall are screwed to studs. Mine are -- and I have never had any fall down despite their weight.

My doors match -- 1x3 wood frames with pegboard set into rabbets. I used magnetic catches. The reason for the pegboard panels is that I began using the cabinets for pieces of wood that would be used for turning. Some of the green wood came from fruit orchards, and I was anxious that it dry a year or two before using. The pegboard provided good ventilation and is quite light in weight.

[Greg Funk]

Jamie,

That construction will work well and should be very strong. If you're using pocket screw joinery you could dispense with the glue and rabbet and just use butt joints. There is unlikely to be a lot of stress on any of those joints and pocket screws should be plenty strong enough. I would probably make the backs out of 3/4" plywood as the extra cost will offset by faster and simpler construction and potentially less waste.

Were you planning to build a frame/platform to mount the cabinets on? If not I would dado in the bottom shelf 4" up from the bottom.

The sketchup model looks good but one suggestion I would make is to use components instead of groups. You could draw just one side component and use it (and mirrored copies) throughout your drawing. Then if you have to make a change you only need to modify one part.

Greg

[frank shic]

jamie, the first responder meant that they covered over the exposed edges with a thin sheet of wood veneer. although you could use pocket screws, i find using assembly screws or confirmat screws much easier and they're not visible from the bottom of the cabinet. if you use french cleats, don't forget to cut out an opening on the sides of the cabinet to allow for the mounting rail to pass through.

[Jamie Smith]

Jamie,

That construction will work well and should be very strong. If you're using pocket screw joinery you could dispense with the glue and rabbet and just use butt joints. There is unlikely to be a lot of stress on any of those joints and pocket screws should be plenty strong enough. I would probably make the backs out of 3/4" plywood as the extra cost will offset by faster and simpler construction and potentially less waste.


Since these are for the garage, I was planning on trying to maximize the utilization of the plywood. Height and depth will be controlled by how much I can eek out of a sheet ;)




Were you planning to build a frame/platform to mount the cabinets on? If not I would dado in the bottom shelf 4" up from the bottom.

The sketchup model looks good but one suggestion I would make is to use components instead of groups. You could draw just one side component and use it (and mirrored copies) throughout your drawing. Then if you have to make a change you only need to modify one part.

Greg


Thanks for the tip, I am new to sketchup.

[Bob Hoffmann]

Laminated with what?

We laminated the cabinets with formica -- so the outside only had to be smooth -- got them tobether as close as possible, and then used a 60 grit belt sander to get rid of any uneveness.

For your cabinets -- plywood without anything else seems to be a good choice.

[Ed Peters]

Jamie,

That construction will work well and should be very strong. If you're using pocket screw joinery you could dispense with the glue and rabbet and just use butt joints. There is unlikely to be a lot of stress on any of those joints and pocket screws should be plenty strong enough.

Greg

Now wait just a minute here. NO GLUE !!! Pocket screws by themselves STRONG ENOUGH !!!

Not in my shop friend. I use a gozillion pocket screws in my shop so you can't call me an "Anti Pocket Screw Fanatic" but I would never expect them to be anything more than a disposable clamp to hold the parts together under pressure until the glue has cured. This sounds like bad advice IMHO.

Ed

[Bart Leetch]

Now wait just a minute here. NO GLUE !!! Pocket screws by themselves STRONG ENOUGH !!!

Not in my shop friend. I use a gozillion pocket screws in my shop so you can't call me an "Anti Pocket Screw Fanatic" but I would never expect them to be anything more than a disposable clamp to hold the parts together under pressure until the glue has cured. This sounds like bad advice IMHO.

Ed

I agree.

As to the 3/4" back thats overkill. A french cleat at the top of the cabinet rabbited in at the ends & glued & fastened to the under side of the top so the back edges of the sides rest against the wall when hung on the wall cleat with the 1/4" back on the inside of the french cleat. I have cabinets like this & they haven't come down yet when fully loaded.

Here is a picture of how you can rabbit in your top & cleat. You would still have to rabbit or groove in for your back. The particular cabinet in the picture is designed without a back the rabbits made it very stiff & nice & square. Now to add a face frame, vertical divider, shelves & rail & style doors with a 1/4" birch panel.

[Greg Funk]

Now wait just a minute here. NO GLUE !!! Pocket screws by themselves STRONG ENOUGH !!!

Not in my shop friend. I use a gozillion pocket screws in my shop so you can't call me an "Anti Pocket Screw Fanatic" but I would never expect them to be anything more than a disposable clamp to hold the parts together under pressure until the glue has cured. This sounds like bad advice IMHO.

Ed
Relax Ed! http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/icons/icon7.gif I personally don't use pocket screws but I've seen others use them with no apparent problems. So add some glue to the butt joint if you're not comfortable. I'd still be surprised if the pocket screws would shear off under normal use.

Greg

[frank shic]

greg, some folks will just never be entirely comfortable unless a joint is bathed in glue. i don't see any problems with the pocket screws except for the appearance from the underside of the cabinet and you can't even notice it unless you crane your neck underneath it or look up while you're kneeling down. have you ever seen the old site-built particleboard cabinets that were just basically tacked together with a nail gun? they held all my kitchenware without any problems until i finally tore them down several years ago.