Question for those with heated garage shops...

[Jason Morgan]

I am in the process of winterizing my soon to be new garage woodshop and would like to know what others have done. Id like to know how you insulated (whats in the walls and roof) what you did with the door(s) (insulated garage door or did you add insulation to an already existing door) what heat source you use (gas, electric, hot water, none) and if you dont mind, what you estimate the cost is if you live up north (I'm in Wisconsin).

Thanks a ton in advance!

[Stan Welborn]

I have three insulated garage doors, and I insulated the walls and ceiling with fiberglass insulation. There is also an upstairs room which helps. I heat the garage with a big ceiling mounted propane heater I got for free, thermostat included, when a cousin upgraded his poultry houses. I think it's a "White" brand. All I had to do was clean/paint it. I don't know the BTU's, but 4 of them heated a 300x50 ft chicken house. Only runs a few seconds to get the 35x45 shop toasty. (you won't stick your hand up in front of the exhaust when it's on but once) Course I live in a much milder climate than Wisconsin.

[jerry cousins]

started out with a 2 car garage - then added on another 1.5 garage space - insulated the xisitng garage with 2" styrofoam (had open truss ceiling). hung a reznor propane heater in the corner (another brand is modine) - it's great - small foot print - good heat.

jerry

[Josiah Bartlett]

Whatever you do, make sure your heater exhausts outside. You will have moisture problems due to combustion water in the north.

[Tom Veatch]

Whatever you do, make sure your heater exhausts outside. You will have moisture problems due to combustion water in the north.

I'll second that suggestion. There are non-vented propane/natural gas heaters available and, in general, are more efficient - no heat wasted out the exhaust vent - but they really add a lot of water vapor to the interior space. I had water condensing on the windows and running down the walls.

Decommissioned the non-vented heater and replaced it with a Modine ceiling mounted vented heater when I expanded my shop. More effort to install - running a vent flue through the ceiling and roof - but never regretted it.

[Wayne Watling]

I am in the process of winterizing my soon to be new garage woodshop and would like to know what others have done. Id like to know how you insulated (whats in the walls and roof) what you did with the door(s) (insulated garage door or did you add insulation to an already existing door) what heat source you use (gas, electric, hot water, none) and if you dont mind, what you estimate the cost is if you live up north (I'm in Wisconsin).

Thanks a ton in advance!

My shop is 21' x 23' with 9' ceilings (ex 2 car garage) I live in Ontario 1 hour north of Toronto so it can get quite cool in winter.

Radiant Heat is the way to go, its vented externally so no problems with moisture from combustion, just set the themostate and forget it. It heats all the objects within view of the rays which makes it very efficient because the objects retain the heat and radiate it back into the shop. Prior to purchase when I was researching options I read in a few places that people thought the heat was a little uncomfortable, well this is not my experience at all with this particular style of unit. I install the unit to the exact specifications from the manufacture, had the gas work done by an authorized operator and it all worked nicely.
A few months into using it there was a soot build up problem which turned out to be a faulty unit, the manufacture set me out a new heater and collected to old one and since then everything has been working well.

Here is a link to the Radiant (http://www.easyradiantworks.com/heatwave.htm) heater.

Best,
Wayne

nb. One of the best ways to get your shop heated and to stay heated is to pour your money into insulation, I put R21 in the walls and R31 in the ceilings along with vapour barrier sealed with tuck tape in the inside.

[Josiah Bartlett]

I agree on the insulation- mine has R12 in the walls and R24 in the ceiling, with insulated windows and weather stripping on the doors. I don't even bother to heat or cool it- it never gets above 75 in the summer or below 45 in the winter. The slab keeps it moderated and the windows face south but are high shaded so they gather solar heat in the winter but not summer.

[John Ricci]

I'm in Ontario just like Wayne but about 2 hours north of Toronto near Owen Sound. Snow, snow, snow and for a change of pace...snow. My 20'x30'x10' shop has R20 in the walls with 7/16 OSB covering the walls, 1" styro insulation on the 8'x16' rollup door, insulated steel man-door and R40 with same OSB (already have the materials, just not the time) as yet to be installed in the ceiling. The room is heated by a 60k btu Reznor closed combustion, outdoor venting propane fired furnace that hangs in the corner of the room at the back. The ceiling is only tarped tightly and went through last winter ok with the room toasty warm and dry but I expect to spend a lot less when I get the ceiling done:rolleyes:. My bud/nextdoor neighbour/pro contractor says the two of us can do it in a day with a panel lift and the right amount of "neck oil":D.

I really like the safety factor of the closed combustion furnace but that feature alone adds about $1k to the price of the same unit without it:mad:...better safe than dead, I always say:D.

J.R.

[Greg Peterson]

I've insulated the walls this past summer and in process of replacing the old garage doors with insulated doors. The doors I am installing qualify for a federal energy efficiency tax credit (since the garage is also insulated).

As for heat source, probably end up with a ceiling mounted electric unit.

[Lewis Cobb]

Eastern Canada here - I have a 20' x 20' extension on the back of a 2 car garage. Like the others I loaded it up with insulation - walls and ceiling, fully sheetrocked and vapor barriered. For heating I have not sprung for a propane / radiant heater yet, nor may I ever. I have gone through the last 2 winters using a little 50 dollar electric heater (4800W - 240VAC). I set it on the floor, turn it on and in 10-15 minutes the room's warmed up. I usually don't heat the room continuously - only when I am working there. This winter I'll be trying out a new "upgrade" - I have installed a ceiling fan and hope to distrubute the heat more evenly. I noticed last winter when I am comfortable, it's a bzillion degrees near the ceiling. I have added an air filter since that time as well so that will assist in the circulation of air when it's being used.

Lewis

[Jason Morgan]

Thanks for all the replies and advice. If I hear everyone right, if I put in enough insulation it sounds like it doesn't matter what I heat it with. This leads me to my other questions.

First, I have 2x4 walls, what is the maximum R-value/best package I can do there (short of sprayed in foam) I was thinking R15 with a 3mil vapor barrier?

I was going to put R38 in the ceiling between the joists. My question here is how to handle the vapor barrier (ceiling is already rocked)? Should I put in kraft faced insulation with the paper side down? try to put down plastic before I put in the insulation? between joists? or just not worry about vapor barrier in the ceiling? Seems no matter what I wont get it "sealed" unless I take down and re-hang the sheet rock (dont want to do that)

Thanks again.

[Gary Curtis]

Once you've got the insulation issue dealt with, consider this as a heat source. A 220v portable heater. The output is 4000 watts, which is equivalent to 14,000 btu's.

My shop was constructed 20 months ago to the new California standards. That means: double glazed windows, 6" walls with R23 insulation, R30 in the ceiling, insulated door. We get temps in the mountains here as low as the high teens on winter nights. Using this 24x24 space with 15-foot ceilings was a gift from my wife. So, no heat was planned beforehand.

The heater can be bought at hardware stores on special order. It gets the room up to the '50s in about 12-14 minutes on the coldest of days. And, being portable, I can move it around to any location where I'm working. But that usually isn't needed. Cost for these buggers was about $135 USD. Pulls either 9 or 11 amps. Again, it is 220v. And blow it out with compressed air occassionally to deal with the fire hazard.

Gary Curtis

[Alfred Toy]

Wayne, how much was the radiant heater. I'm in Sask. -30 -40 in the winter.

[Wayne Watling]

Wayne, how much was the radiant heater. I'm in Sask. -30 -40 in the winter.

It was CAD$910 including taxes but I purchased it from one of those wood show and it was on special. I did the mounting myself and the cost for the gas pipework, tank and first tank of gas was $600.

Wayne

[Greg Pavlov]

I was going to put R38 in the ceiling between the joists. My question here is how to handle the vapor barrier (ceiling is already rocked)? Should I put in kraft faced insulation with the paper side down? try to put down plastic before I put in the insulation? between joists? or just not worry about vapor barrier in the ceiling? Seems no matter what I wont get it "sealed" unless I take down and re-hang the sheet rock (dont want to do that)
Thanks again.

Yes, you definitely want a vapor barrier betw the sheet rock and the insulation, else condensation can/will eventually do a job on your ceiling & joists. I've used both, kraft-faced and non-faced with plastic sheet, but the latter was to deal with a special access problem. I'd go with the Kraft-faced.

When checking out insulated garage doors, look out for two basic types of insulation, polystyrene and polyurethane, the second yielding a higher r value (per unit of thickness). It seems that it should also make the door panels a bit stiffer/stronger.

[Rick Schubert]

My shop is north of Duluth and in a 2 1/2 gar garage insulated OK. There is 4" of fiberglass in the walls and 6" in the ceiling. I did caulk well all around the windows, doors, cracks, etc.

I installed a Modine Hot Dawg heater and keep the temp in the low 40's. I also have a wood burning stove which I fire up when I work in the shop.

I close my shop down with no heat in Dec and Jan. This program costs me about $45 per year in LP. It doesn't include any wood costs, but I have plenty of that.

Rick

[David G Baker]

I have a 30x40 pole barn with 1 inch foil covered foam under metal siding on the walls and 14 inches of blow in insulation in the ceiling above OSB. I heat the building with a 75,000 BTU Modine Hot Dawg natural gas fired heater that hangs from the ceiling and vents through the wall. I don't know how much difference it makes but I also have 2 inches of rigid foam under my concrete slab.
I keep the thermostat set at 50 degrees year round and raise the setting to 65 degrees when I work in it in the colder months. The unit cost me around $800 and averages about $35 a month in the Winter for the gas. Once the building gets up to working heat the furnace only comes on around once every half hour. The only problem with this type of heat is if you use a lot of hand tools the tools do not heat up and the cold hurts your hands. The over head tube radiant type of heater eliminates this problem but I do not know what the operating cost is on them.
One of the best suggestions is to insulate, insulate and insulate some more.

[Rob Diz]

I had a retro fit a cinder block garage. I glued furring strips on the wall and stapled on a foil foam foil insulation, which had the added benefit of being white on the show side.

I put a Dayton electric 220v heater, and it keeps the place right where I want it - around 50 degrees in the winter until I go in, and then in 10-15 mins it's quite toasty.

Som day I will open up the plaster ceiling on my garage and blow some type of insulation up there (but not cellulose due to fire hazard).

[Jeff Raymond]

Got a 2-story 24x30 former garage. With insulated doors, built brackets to hold them SHUT. Will be putting in a vented LP Monitor heater. The upstairs has a 'cold roof' venting system so, put foam vents from the soffits up to the vents and insulated the XXXX out of everything else.

We'll see how it works. If the insulated doors aren't good enough, I'll build a wall outside of them with foam panels to tighten things up.

Here's a tip: Don't be thinking of a cozy shop: It gets too hot in the winter if you are actually working there. :D

[Stephen Pereira]

I have a 24x32 insulated garage that I turned into my shop. It has 4" fiberglass in the walls and 12" of blown in fiberglass in the ceiling. I am in the process of replacing the old wood overhead garage door with a steel insulated one. As other has said.. insulate.. insulate and then insulate some more. Energy prices.. especially propane are rising so adding insulation is money well spent.

I have an Empire propane hanging unit heater .. good unit but expect to pay $150.00 month to run it.
I am looking into replacing the propane unit heater with an electric unit. With propane at record high prices I think electric heat will be cheaper.. not to mention less trouble.

I read with interest Louis Cobb's post.. heating his shop with a 4800 watt electric heater in Canada!! I don't know.. he must have a very well insulated shop. I live in northern Minnesota and it takes a big fire in Jan/Feb when the temps stay below zero.

Anybody have any stats on cost comparisons between propane, electicity, fuel oil etc?

[Jeff Raymond]

Anybody have any stats on cost comparisons between propane, electicity, fuel oil etc?


Pretty tough to make comparisons. I did find out something new the other day. If you are using LP, and you can haggle it with your supplier...buy the tanks yourself and you will get your LP at a reduced price. If you are a big user of LP, you will come out better...but only in the very long run.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

My 30'x24' shop was built with 2"x6" studs. I insulated to R-19 in the walls and R-40 in the ceiling. I have 3 3'x4' thermopaned windows and an 10' insulated garage door and a 4' insulated walk-through door. Even in the summer heat I often see an 18 degree or more temperature difference. I heat with a Lennox 75k,000 btu natural gas overhead furnace. The furnace loafs in the dead of winter.

[Lewis Cobb]

I have a 24x32 insulated garage that I turned into my shop. It has 4" fiberglass in the walls and 12" of blown in fiberglass in the ceiling. I am in the process of replacing the old wood overhead garage door with a steel insulated one. As other has said.. insulate.. insulate and then insulate some more. Energy prices.. especially propane are rising so adding insulation is money well spent.

I have an Empire propane hanging unit heater .. good unit but expect to pay $150.00 month to run it.
I am looking into replacing the propane unit heater with an electric unit. With propane at record high prices I think electric heat will be cheaper.. not to mention less trouble.

I read with interest Louis Cobb's post.. heating his shop with a 4800 watt electric heater in Canada!! I don't know.. he must have a very well insulated shop. I live in northern Minnesota and it takes a big fire in Jan/Feb when the temps stay below zero.

Anybody have any stats on cost comparisons between propane, electicity, fuel oil etc?

I would imagine it depends on where you are located as far as elecricity - more than gas/oil etc. Here in this part of Canada electricity is about 10 cents per kilowatt hour. So that's about 50 cents an hour for my little 4800W electric heater max.

I understand your skepticism about my heater being enough for my shop and believe me, I had plans for one of these radiant propane fired things when I built it, but when I tried the electric heater it really did work for me and the money got spent on more tools instead :D I was somewhat shocked but pleased nonetheless. Now, we seldom get to 0F here in this part of Canada - I am on the east coast - but it does get to about 10F and stay there.

A few notes about my shop -
20' x 20' with 10' ceiling
Fully vapor barriered and sheetrocked like the living room in my house
6 " of insulation in the walls - fiberglass pink - R20
12"+ insulation in the ceiling - R40 - blown in fiberglass - yes, fiberglass - and it sure is itchy up there when I am fishing wires, looking for trusses to fasten screws into etc.
There's 2 man doors - steel, insulated like the normal exterior doors on a house
There's a roll up steel insulated garage door - but it's leading into the "car garage" not the outside, so there's no wind howling around the seams like there is in the garage sometimes.

One other note - there's one common wall with the house - and even though there's R20 in that wall I would imagine there's a little bit of residual heat getting through from the house so it's not like a separate detached building per se in the workshop - this is working in my favor a bit as well I know, but I attribute the pitiful little elecrtic heater working mainly to the insulation and "tightness" of the room.

Hope this helps.

[Bob Feeser]

I do something different. I have a basement shop. I do not heat the basement during the winter. The furnace is down there in a separate room from the shop, that I use as a fitness center, with a jacuzzi tub, so the heater in that room is a good thing.

On the other hand, I do not like working with cool tools. So I have a 55k kerosene salamander heater, that I run to really bake things up. Even the tools get warm, and so does the wood in only a matter of about 10 minutes. Then I close the window, and shut off the kero blast heater, and open up the vents to the natural gas, forced hot air to maintain the temp. If I am doing something unusualy dusty, like blowing out the shop, I might choose to put the fan in the window to exit the dust in the air, and leave the kero blaster going a little bit. I have a thermostat on it, so it shuts off automatically, PLUS I have a 50 dollar timer box that the unit plugs into. It is equipped with a spring loaded timer, like you use for a jacuzzi, so it automatically shuts itself off at whatever time you set it at. Their is no over ride. You spin it all the way to 60 minutes if you like, but the second you let go it starts ticking down. You need that because you do not want to leave a salamander heater running unattended. If the thermostat shuts it off, and you are leaving for the day, you might forget it is on. So the timer box that it plugs into guarantees a short exposure time for that to happen.

I had a shop in a barn with a lot of hay stacked on the other end, and the barn was windy, so one of those blast heaters really did the job. They are meant to be used in a fresh air supply environment. To take that thought to the extreme, you often see them at pro football games for the players to warm their hands on.

The heaters that vent to the outside are great for the house, and for basements, or garage shops, that plan on leaving the heat on all of the time. But if you want to get something up to temp quick, one of the salamanders does it quick. I use one in my 2 car garage as well, and when I want to fiddle with the car in the middle of the winter, it warms everything up real quick, the tools, the car, everything. Within 15 minutes it's T shirt weather, then I open up the garage door a slit on the bottom, and a venting side window open a little bit, then balance the thermostat to allow just the right amount of heat vs fresh air to flow. It works.

I realize that a super insulated shop is definitely the way to go. If you can insulate it really well, you can afford to use a clean heating system, (burning fossil fuels, means venting to the outside) and leave it on, at least to semi-warm all of the time. I have worked for many years in cold overnight shops, so the salamander is a blessing.

I had a 5000 square foot warehouse with a huge overhead garage door, and using the oil furnace ceiling mounts, venting to the outside was super expensive. I used a 320,000 BTU kerosene salamander rocket ship, and the guys were walking around in T-Shirts in 15 minutes. That shop leaked, and was not practical to insulate the entire thing. It has explosion proof glass on one wall, taking up the entire shop. That is why I have a penchant for the kero heaters, nothing is worse than a cold shop with cold tools. That makes everything come to a halt. Some of these ceiling mounted radiating heaters seem to be the trick.

[Craig D Peltier]

How about this. Im asking cuase I dont have a clue. Since my furnace is located in my 3 car garage where the shop is wouldnt it be easy to just splice in another duct or two?
My initial thoughts that may not allow this would be, if furnace can handle it?
Anyone know anything about this. My garage stays in the 40-50 range in winter.More towards 40. Its about 18 x 35 or so. Garage doors not insulated, closed ceiling with walk around above with insualtion on floor but not roof. The walls have insualtion and theres only one window.

Up here in Seattle area natural gas seems to be exspensive an electric cheaper. (and water, go figure) Its like a frikin rainforest here.

[Jeff Raymond]

One of the things that is important to remember in the winter with a garage/shop is this: If you can keep the cement floor relatively warm and minimize drafts, you are creating a heat mass which will in turn radiate warmth. In very cold climates, it's a challenge. Once the cement gets cold, you will too. My shop's walls have plates one brick above the deck, which helps.

In my old shop I had a wood burning furnace which turned out to be a really bad idea. The heat was so 'hot' that it was way too dry in the shop; big static electricity problems, health issues and it affected my lumber inventory as well.

Doing this the second time, I figure a baseline comfort level of about 50 degrees, and warm it up a bit when you need to.